Trump threatens Harvard's tax-exempt status after freezing $2bn funding, demands apology

rjs330 · Apr 29, 2025

One of the issues are that all this college education problems are creating people who can't cut it in the work place. It's not just causing graduates to want to choose jobs that revolve around them its causing them to not keep the jobs they get. This creates problems in tge work force and problems for the individuals themselves. I am beginning to see a pattern here and its throughout the various threads. The pattern is this.
People want to do whatever they want without any consequences as long as it doesn't kill anybody. Whatever they feel like doing or however they feel like behaving is all about them, their desires, feelings and wishes. And you better cater to that.

But that only serves to harm others and themselves in the process.

Bosses are firing Gen Z grads just months after hiring them | Fortune

Here’s what they say needs to change.

fortune.com

essentialsaltes · Apr 29, 2025

rjs330 said:
Whatever they feel like doing or however they feel like behaving is all about them, their desires, feelings and wishes. And you better cater to that.

Sounds like the "Me Generation" aka Boomers.

BCP1928 · Apr 29, 2025

rjs330 said:
One of the issues are that all this college education problems are creating people who can't cut it in the work place.

So?

rjs330 said:
It's not just causing graduates to want to choose jobs that revolve around them its causing them to not keep the jobs they get.

I'm not sure what you mean by "resolves around them." Granted, both our colleges and high schools are doing a poor job of preparing young people for the workplace. The real problem we are dancing around affects both college graduate workers and high school only workers--who have voluntarily withdrawn from the workforce in even greater numbers

rjs330 said:
This creates problems in tge work force and problems for the individuals themselves. I am beginning to see a pattern here and its throughout the various threads. The pattern is this.
People want to do whatever they want without any consequences as long as it doesn't kill anybody.

Generally. that's true for all of us. We want to do what we want as long as it does not harm anyone else. Turning down a job offer out of moral concern does not harm anyone else and may actually do some good.

rjs330 said:
Whatever they feel like doing or however they feel like behaving is all about them, their desires, feelings and wishes. And you better cater to that.

To a certain extent you have to if you want to employ their skills. It should be a mutual accomodation on the part of employer and employee.

rjs330 said:
But that only serves to harm others and themselves in the process.

Bosses are firing Gen Z grads just months after hiring them | Fortune

Here’s what they say needs to change.

fortune.com

Look at that: a real problem along with a solution. But not the problem we are talking about.

rambot · Apr 29, 2025

The latest generation is DEFINITELY not a hopeful generation.

They are undermotivated to work because they are "underpaid". To be clear, they may not be underpaid according to their marketable skills, but they are "underpaid" because their paycheque doesn't get them enough to thrive (or often survive)

Thier attitude is "what's the point in working hard if I still fall far behind"?

Yes I recognize the hole in the logic, but it should be remembered that the current generation is saddled with higher expenses than we ever were (and greater pressures to "maintain a certain standard of living".

rjs330 · Apr 29, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
Sounds like the "Me Generation" aka Boomers.

Lol.

rjs330 · Apr 29, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Granted, both our colleges and high schools are doing a poor job of preparing young people for the workplace. The real problem we are dancing around affects both college graduate workers and high school only workers--who have voluntarily withdrawn from the workforce in even greater numbers

Yup. I heard in the UK they are doing something about that in some places in K-12 as well as college.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

rambot said:
The latest generation is DEFINITELY not a hopeful generation.

They are undermotivated to work because they are "underpaid". To be clear, they may not be underpaid according to their marketable skills, but they are "underpaid" because their paycheque doesn't get them enough to thrive (or often survive)

Thier attitude is "what's the point in working hard if I still fall far behind"?

Yes I recognize the hole in the logic, but it should be remembered that the current generation is saddled with higher expenses than we ever were (and greater pressures to "maintain a certain standard of living".

I think shifting standards regarding expectations is a major factor.

Now, the current generation certainly has a valid gripe about housing prices, I won't diminish that concern.

Houses going for $400k now that used to be half of that price 15 years ago is certainly a real thing.

But, there are areas where they could make meaningful improvements.

For instance:
There are reports that suggests Millennials and Gen Z consumers are statistically more likely than previous generations (like Gen X and Boomers) to spend a higher percentage of their money on categories like clothing, entertainment, dining out, and tech. And, they often do so not just for the utility of the product or service, but for the brand image, values alignment, or social currency attached to it.

-- Gen Z individuals are 2.6 times more likely to buy clothing weekly compared to other generations, influenced by social media trends and a desire for self-expression.

-- Gen Z tends to spend more on experiences and entertainment, such as concerts, valuing these over physical possessions.

Clothing, Cosmetics, and Gadgets

Average Monthly Spend: Approximately $228.11

Entertainment (Streaming, Music, Gaming)

Average Monthly Spend: Roughly $187.07

️ Socializing (Dining Out, Bars, Clubs)

Average Monthly Spend: Around $366.75

While there's obviously not anything inherently wrong with clothes shopping, eating out, and streaming/music/gaming...

It does tend to cause their other concerns to be dismissed (in terms of perceptions) in the eyes of the previous generations.

"I just can't get ahead because housing costs more" when told to people in older generations who can't even fathom having an $800/month clothes and entertainment budget, it (somewhat understandably) draws out the "let me get my tiny violin out" response from older folks.

rambot · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
I think shifting standards regarding expectations is a major factor.

Now, the current generation certainly has a valid gripe about housing prices, I won't diminish that concern.

Houses going for $400k now that used to be half of that price 15 years ago is certainly a real thing.

But, there are areas where they could make meaningful improvements.

For instance:
There are reports that suggests Millennials and Gen Z consumers are statistically more likely than previous generations (like Gen X and Boomers) to spend a higher percentage of their money on categories like clothing, entertainment, dining out, and tech. And, they often do so not just for the utility of the product or service, but for the brand image, values alignment, or social currency attached to it.

-- Gen Z individuals are 2.6 times more likely to buy clothing weekly compared to other generations, influenced by social media trends and a desire for self-expression.

-- Gen Z tends to spend more on experiences and entertainment, such as concerts, valuing these over physical possessions.

Clothing, Cosmetics, and Gadgets

Average Monthly Spend: Approximately $228.11

Entertainment (Streaming, Music, Gaming)

Average Monthly Spend: Roughly $187.07

️ Socializing (Dining Out, Bars, Clubs)

Average Monthly Spend: Around $366.75

While there's obviously not anything inherently wrong with clothes shopping, eating out, and streaming/music/gaming...

It does tend to cause their other concerns to be dismissed (in terms of perceptions) in the eyes of the previous generations.

"I just can't get ahead because housing costs more" when told to people in older generations who can't even fathom having an $800/month clothes and entertainment budget, it (somewhat understandably) draws out the "let me get my tiny violin out" response from older folks.

Oh I agree!

I was just talking to my buddy about this. We lived together in our 20s.
Gadet spending: 0$ clothing? Pffft..i was cheap and didn't care about fashion.
HE was talking about his 20something step daughter and her going out ALL the time and dropping big cash. ME and him never want out. I would go out and play open stages but I NEVER got more than "1 coke" a night...maybe a couple beer a month. That's it. NEVER food.

I am an introvert (other than the music) but my buddies would come over and play games ALL the time. That was our entertainment. That said, the socializing budget up there is ALMOST what my rent was.

And if I spent 100$ on "Socializing" (which is probably, within the realm of possibility), I don't really think I'm THAT far from those guys given cost of living considerations.

Ultimately, I'm not TOTALLY sure how "meaningful" those improvements could be but I 1000% agree they could be doing BETTER.

BCP1928 · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
I think shifting standards regarding expectations is a major factor.

Now, the current generation certainly has a valid gripe about housing prices, I won't diminish that concern.

Houses going for $400k now that used to be half of that price 15 years ago is certainly a real thing.

But, there are areas where they could make meaningful improvements.

For instance:
There are reports that suggests Millennials and Gen Z consumers are statistically more likely than previous generations (like Gen X and Boomers) to spend a higher percentage of their money on categories like clothing, entertainment, dining out, and tech. And, they often do so not just for the utility of the product or service, but for the brand image, values alignment, or social currency attached to it.

-- Gen Z individuals are 2.6 times more likely to buy clothing weekly compared to other generations, influenced by social media trends and a desire for self-expression.

-- Gen Z tends to spend more on experiences and entertainment, such as concerts, valuing these over physical possessions.

Clothing, Cosmetics, and Gadgets

Average Monthly Spend: Approximately $228.11

Entertainment (Streaming, Music, Gaming)

Average Monthly Spend: Roughly $187.07

️ Socializing (Dining Out, Bars, Clubs)

Average Monthly Spend: Around $366.75

While there's obviously not anything inherently wrong with clothes shopping, eating out, and streaming/music/gaming...

It does tend to cause their other concerns to be dismissed (in terms of perceptions) in the eyes of the previous generations.

"I just can't get ahead because housing costs more" when told to people in older generations who can't even fathom having an $800/month clothes and entertainment budget, it (somewhat understandably) draws out the "let me get my tiny violin out" response from older folks.

Yeah, it's the same as it's always been--working class people are just lazy and make poor lifestyle choices. The working class, BTW, includes all employees, including those who went to college to get out of the heavy lifting. The thing is, a large part of the workforce is sitting on their hands because pay and working conditions aren't what they expect. Employers are complaining that the level of effort isn't what they expect. It looks like some expectations are going to have to change on both sides. Blaming it on a "woke" conspiracy in the halls of ivy gets neither side off the hook.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

rambot said:
Oh I agree!

I was just talking to my buddy about this. We lived together in our 20s.
Gadet spending: 0$ clothing? Pffft..i was cheap and didn't care about fashion.
HE was talking about his 20something step daughter and her going out ALL the time and dropping big cash. ME and him never want out. I would go out and play open stages but I NEVER got more than "1 coke" a night...maybe a couple beer a month. That's it. NEVER food.

I am an introvert (other than the music) but my buddies would come over and play games ALL the time. That was our entertainment. That said, the socializing budget up there is ALMOST what my rent was.

And if I spent 100$ on "Socializing" (which is probably, within the realm of possibility), I don't really think I'm THAT far from those guys given cost of living considerations.

Ultimately, I'm not TOTALLY sure how "meaningful" those improvements could be but I 1000% agree they could be doing BETTER.

In some case, I think they also get instilled with a certain amount of economic pessimism based on what they hear from pundits/professors/friends/etc...

One of the things that often gets repeated is that "the middle class is shrinking, and it's the fault of the wealth concentration at the top"

While there's a measure of truth to that, without context for the shifting definition of what "middle class" used to be compared to what it is now, it may be giving off more of a "doom and gloom" vibe than it should be.

If you look at what "middle class" used to mean: 1200 sq ft 3-bedroom, 1 bathroom home, with one TV set, one car, most meals eaten at home, and maybe a yearly vacation.

Today's definition of middle class would be considered 'high on the hog' for people who were middle class in the 60's and 70s.

I think we actually did a disservice to the "economic psyche" by defining economic classes in terms of how people compared to other people in percentiles, instead of defining it terms of tangible static metrics/benchmarks.

Even on the housing front, there's still houses that are affordable that would've easily met "70's middle class standards"

Hot off the Zillow presses... Suburb of Buffalo in upstate NY

3-bedroom
1.5 bath
1379 sq feet
--$191,500

10% down, you'd be looking at roughly $1025/month.

That's well within reach of a recent college grad making 40-50k

...but obviously, it's not going to meet the certain "coolness/vibe" factor that many of them have been led to believe = "middle class"

RocksInMyHead · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
...but obviously, it's not going to meet the certain "coolness/vibe" factor that many of them have been led to believe = "middle class"

And you have to live in Buffalo. Also, 10% down, plus closing costs, is going to be around $30k that you have to have in-hand at closing.

Aryeh Jay · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
If you look at what "middle class" used to mean: 1200 sq ft 3-bedroom, 1 bathroom home, with one TV set, one car, most meals eaten at home, and maybe a yearly vacation.

Man, yall had it good. When I was growing up, middle class a 400 sq ft log cabin, outhouse, 1 mule, two meals a day, children educated to 6th grade.

RocksInMyHead · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
View attachment 364218

Hot off the Zillow presses... Suburb of Buffalo in upstate NY

3-bedroom
1.5 bath
1379 sq feet
--$191,500

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you grabbed the wrong image, because I just reverse-image-searched your photo, and that house is listed for $280,000.

ThatRobGuy said:
10% down, you'd be looking at roughly $1025/month.

That's well within reach of a recent college grad making 40-50k

Only if you ignore property taxes and homeowners insurance. With those figured in, and using the current ~6.5% rate you're likely to get on your mortgage today, payments will be closer to $1500/month. Using the "1/3 of your gross income" rule of thumb, that means you should be making a minimum of $55k/year to afford a $192,000 house.

Nithavela · Apr 29, 2025

RocksInMyHead said:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you grabbed the wrong image, because I just reverse-image-searched your photo, and that house is listed for $280,000.

Only if you ignore property taxes and homeowners insurance. With those figured in, and using the current ~6.5% rate you're likely to get on your mortgage today, payments will be closer to $1500/month. Using the "1/3 of your gross income" rule of thumb, that means you should be making a minimum of $55k/year to afford a $192,000 house.

Also quite possible that it needs some work done.

RocksInMyHead · Apr 29, 2025

Nithavela said:
Also quite possible that it needs some work done.

Absolutely, and buying the top of your budget means you have less headroom to spend on repairs or upgrades if needed.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

RocksInMyHead said:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you grabbed the wrong image, because I just reverse-image-searched your photo, and that house is listed for $280,000.

Only if you ignore property taxes and homeowners insurance. With those figured in, and using the current ~6.5% rate you're likely to get on your mortgage today, payments will be closer to $1500/month. Using the "1/3 of your gross income" rule of thumb, that means you should be making a minimum of $55k/year to afford a $192,000 house.

That's still less than rent in many cases isn't it? (plus it's an asset that will likely appreciate in value)

Getting a "fixer upper" used to be pretty common. My first home certainly was. Although didn't mind getting my hands a little dirty, and could do some of the work myself.

RocksInMyHead · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
That's still less than rent in many cases isn't it?

That depends. It's less than what my brother pays for his 1-bedroom apartment in California, but you can rent a house in Buffalo for less than $1500.

My point was directed more at your claims on the costs and the income needed to afford it rather than the benefits (and downsides) of homeownership though. And like I said, you're ignoring the large amount of money that would be required at closing. Someone making $55k/year is going to take a long time to save up ~$30k for a down payment and closing costs. Even putting the minimum down (3%), you're still looking at around $15-20k needed at close.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Yeah, it's the same as it's always been--working class people are just lazy and make poor lifestyle choices. The working class, BTW, includes all employees, including those who went to college to get out of the heavy lifting. The thing is, a large part of the workforce is sitting on their hands because pay and working conditions aren't what they expect. Employers are complaining that the level of effort isn't what they expect. It looks like some expectations are going to have to change on both sides. Blaming it on a "woke" conspiracy in the halls of ivy gets neither side off the hook.

So what, then, would you say would be a reasonable standard with regards to expectations for a fresh graduate coming out of college for their first job?...and what they're expecting for their first home?

rambot · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
In some case, I think they also get instilled with a certain amount of economic pessimism based on what they hear from pundits/professors/friends/etc...

One of the things that often gets repeated is that "the middle class is shrinking, and it's the fault of the wealth concentration at the top"

While there's a measure of truth to that, without context for the shifting definition of what "middle class" used to be compared to what it is now, it may be giving off more of a "doom and gloom" vibe than it should be.

I'm sorry but this idea of "some measure of truth" we may differ here. That statement is 100% factually accurate.

I've found this movie to provide a great visual understanding of wealth distribution in America. And the fact that it is only getting WORSE, should tell you that this is NOT a "middle class spending" problem.

ThatRobGuy said:
If you look at what "middle class" used to mean: 1200 sq ft 3-bedroom, 1 bathroom home, with one TV set, one car, most meals eaten at home, and maybe a yearly vacation.

This whole conversation is very strange. It seems that when Biden was in power, I would NEVER have read ANYTHING about affordable housing anywhere as an option for anyone.
I'd always assumed the "middle economic ground" of ANY economic system...regardless of "hard metrics" or percentiles, would have been the "middle class".

ThatRobGuy said:
Today's definition of middle class would be considered 'high on the hog' for people who were middle class in the 60's and 70s.

I really don't think so. Unless you're going to account for the expectations around what the "Average person" has for "Tech".

In terms of metrics I am SOLIDLY SOLIDLY middle to low middle class. I can tell you that my parents house was twice as big as mine; they went on YEARLY trips to europ to visit their family...and they saved a PERVERSE amount of money to live the way they do now. So our family lived a fairly MEGER life so that my folks could live quite a lavish life in their retirement. But ALLLLLL of that was choice. Retiring at 52 with everyting paid off and sitting on good investments.

So suddenly lifestyle seems like not a great ACTUAL indicate or class status. So let's look at income disparity and distribution since that's going to tell us the most precise information. See video I posted above.

ThatRobGuy said:
I think we actually did a disservice to the "economic psyche" by defining economic classes in terms of how people compared to other people in percentiles, instead of defining it terms of tangible static metrics/benchmarks.

Even on the housing front, there's still houses that are affordable that would've easily met "70's middle class standards"

View attachment 364218

Hot off the Zillow presses... Suburb of Buffalo in upstate NY

3-bedroom
1.5 bath
1379 sq feet
--$191,500

10% down, you'd be looking at roughly $1025/month.

That's well within reach of a recent college grad making 40-50k

...but obviously, it's not going to meet the certain "coolness/vibe" factor that many of them have been led to believe = "middle class"

I gotta tell you that your understanding of millenials is WAAAAY offbase if you think that they wouldn't jump at an affordable house that was a realistic option for them in terms of work, transportation etc....

Additionally, finding ONE house (and not providing links) doesn't exactly give a "robust presentation" of your argument that there are "still houses"....because of COURSE there are. But how many....

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

RocksInMyHead said:
That depends. It's less than what my brother pays for his 1-bedroom apartment in California, but you can rent a house in Buffalo for less than $1500.

My point was directed more at your claims on the costs and the income needed to afford it rather than the benefits (and downsides) of homeownership though. And like I said, you're ignoring the large amount of money that would be required at closing. Someone making $55k/year is going to take a long time to save up ~$30k for a down payment and closing costs. Even putting the minimum down (3%), you're still looking at around $15-20k needed at close.

That depends on what kind of relator you can work with

Usually for first time home buyers, there are special loan types, and there are ways to roll the closing costs and PMI into the loan for people who may not be sitting on a huge nest egg for a down payment.

However, based on what I posted before (about the average amount Gen Z spends on clothing, dining, drinking, and entertainment -- ~700-800/month)

Even cutting that luxury expenditure budget in half can go a long way.

$400 x 24 months = In two years, you've got $9600.

That's what a lot of us had to do...my first apartment was cheap and on the scuzzy side, and intentionally set aside a couple hundred a month for a few years for my "get out of the scuzzy apartment fund"

It should be even easier now, given that a noteworthy portion of the "boomerang generation" (who goes back to living at home for a bit after college) gets to live rent free.

If I had been living with my parents for the 2 years post-college, I could've banked up enough to put 50% down on the first home without even budgeting all that hard.

Trump threatens Harvard's tax-exempt status after freezing $2bn funding, demands apology

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