Christianity Makes You More Likely to be a Victim of Unpleasant and Harmful Behavior?

com7fy8 · Apr 8, 2025

High Castle said:
I don't know to what extent forgiveness is assossiated with trust.

It is associated with trusting God who wants us to forgive.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

It is in *p~r~a~y~e~r* that we need to forgive, trusting God to have mercy on the person and trusting God to bless the person to do better.

So, it has nothing to do with trusting the person.

But we can then discover if and how the person is blessed by God who is the only One who can do anyone what is really right. And we get blessed in obeying how God has us forgiving in prayer. And in obeying God we are ministering to others, also . . . spreading the effect of His love all around us.

Our forgiving has us with God in His love so we are able to love better in our relating with ones close to us who might be worthy of our trust. By staying forgiving, we are staying in God's generously forgiving love where forgiveness lives. In God's love is where true forgiveness is, and we have this for our own selves while we live this for others; and here is where we can connect with others who are loving like Jesus. Here is where Jesus is!

So, it is like staying in the house where the fresh air is. Here we have our own fresh start, all the time, of forgiveness constantly giving us ourselves our new beginning at each moment with God; and this has us ready with a fresh start for anyone else . . . *ready*, whether they are or not; and so we are sharing with others who stay fresh and new in God's love.

High Castle said:
At the very least they can be loosly connected.

After my explanation above, may be you now would consider they are connected . . . forgiveness is connected, this is, with trust of God. And He is trusting us to stay with forgiving so we stay close with Him . . . not so we make ourselves vulnerable to Satan!

But in forgiving in this love we have safety emotional and deeper in sharing with God Himself who keeps us deeply safe, plus He is guiding us safely and creatively while we obey Him.

High Castle said:
If forgiveness is a Christian virtue then I would say that can lead us in the direction of further harm from dubious individuals.

Well, in Satan's kingdom ones can forgive but they err in also trusting in ways they should not trust. And so they get hurt in their unwise ways of forgiving and trusting. And then Satan can use this to make forgiving look bad. Well, how he has people do it is bad - - counterfeit. And Satan then can use the results of his fake forgiving to make real forgiving look bad.

And as I may have already offered > when I do trust people, I pray about this, understanding I must be ready to forgive however someone fails and even betrays my trust. Because it is on me, to make sure I pray about if and how and when I trust anyone; so if a problem does come > either I got things wrong and was not trusting the way God was leading, so it is my fault. Or, God did have me give someone a chance, though He knew the person would do me wrong; but He has me ready so, with God, He and I use that problem for His good.

I had a case where I stayed with a guy so I could help some people > he was my social connection to be able to help them. Then he told me to meet him, one day, so we could do some thing. He did not show. So, I was glad to have time for something else worth doing. I told him, no big deal, I could use the time well.

Now, I knew he possibly had been trying to play with my head so he could get me more emotionally involved with him so he could break me down into wrong stuff with him. But I already knew I must not let him have any power, at all, to affect me emotionally since he was not a deeply sound person. And I knew God's almighty power in God's love could keep me safe while I did things with him. I knew that as long as I did what God had me doing, God would be in control and I could not lose anything that really mattered. And any loss could be a set-up, even being a good investment . . . like how Jesus up on the cross was set ^up^ to do so much more good than anything He might lose in this life.

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

But ones get themselves hurt by not doing things in God's love and leading. He will guide us according to all He knows and the good He is able to create out of any situation.

But we get hurt because we are loving our own lives and worrying about mainly our own selves and not caring about our neighbor as well as we care about ourselves. And so, we are operating in what is not God's wisdom; and so we do things, our own selves, which help to mess up ourselves and our lives >

"'He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'" (John 12:25)

In loving our own lives we can be doing two basic things so we lose everything > one, we are acting in deep weakness in our self-seeking ways of loving, so we are weak for foolish pleasure and this weakness also works overtime to make us weak for deep emotional pain. Because we are not acting in the strength of God's all-loving love >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

In our picky and choosy loving we are in deep weakness so we can easily get hurt and keep on suffering . . . including in unforgiveness, while so cleverly blaming some other person. But in God's *a~l~l*-loving love we share with Him in His strength.

And two > in loving our own lives we are depending on our own ingenuity for getting the friends and pleasures we want. And our self capability makes us sure marks. Because in Satan's kingdom of self-seeking loving . . . this is always how things work. Without Jesus > "you can do nothing" (in John 15:5).

So, Jesus says, "When you stand praying" " forgive" "anyone" (Mark 11:25). Well . . . if I am praying . . . I am communicating, and I find how God can first deal with me about how I was not obeying Him and therefore could get myself in trouble and hurt.

So, whom do I need to forgive, first, then, in such a situation? :doh:

lolololololololol

Often enough, I can get in trouble inside myself about who knows who, and it helps me to see first how I am my own main problem. Then go from here.

Bob Carabbio · Apr 14, 2025

High Castle said:
So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

You're not even talking about "BIBLICALCHRISTIANITY", but about "RELIGION", and "THEOLOGY" - which are like noses - Everybody's got one.

High Castle · Thursday at 8:29 AM

com7fy8 said:
It is associated with trusting God who wants us to forgive.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

It is in *p~r~a~y~e~r* that we need to forgive, trusting God to have mercy on the person and trusting God to bless the person to do better.

So, it has nothing to do with trusting the person.

But we can then discover if and how the person is blessed by God who is the only One who can do anyone what is really right. And we get blessed in obeying how God has us forgiving in prayer. And in obeying God we are ministering to others, also . . . spreading the effect of His love all around us.

Our forgiving has us with God in His love so we are able to love better in our relating with ones close to us who might be worthy of our trust. By staying forgiving, we are staying in God's generously forgiving love where forgiveness lives. In God's love is where true forgiveness is, and we have this for our own selves while we live this for others; and here is where we can connect with others who are loving like Jesus. Here is where Jesus is!

So, it is like staying in the house where the fresh air is. Here we have our own fresh start, all the time, of forgiveness constantly giving us ourselves our new beginning at each moment with God; and this has us ready with a fresh start for anyone else . . . *ready*, whether they are or not; and so we are sharing with others who stay fresh and new in God's love.

After my explanation above, may be you now would consider they are connected . . . forgiveness is connected, this is, with trust of God. And He is trusting us to stay with forgiving so we stay close with Him . . . not so we make ourselves vulnerable to Satan!

But in forgiving in this love we have safety emotional and deeper in sharing with God Himself who keeps us deeply safe, plus He is guiding us safely and creatively while we obey Him.

Well, in Satan's kingdom ones can forgive but they err in also trusting in ways they should not trust. And so they get hurt in their unwise ways of forgiving and trusting. And then Satan can use this to make forgiving look bad. Well, how he has people do it is bad - - counterfeit. And Satan then can use the results of his fake forgiving to make real forgiving look bad.

And as I may have already offered > when I do trust people, I pray about this, understanding I must be ready to forgive however someone fails and even betrays my trust. Because it is on me, to make sure I pray about if and how and when I trust anyone; so if a problem does come > either I got things wrong and was not trusting the way God was leading, so it is my fault. Or, God did have me give someone a chance, though He knew the person would do me wrong; but He has me ready so, with God, He and I use that problem for His good.

I had a case where I stayed with a guy so I could help some people > he was my social connection to be able to help them. Then he told me to meet him, one day, so we could do some thing. He did not show. So, I was glad to have time for something else worth doing. I told him, no big deal, I could use the time well.

Now, I knew he possibly had been trying to play with my head so he could get me more emotionally involved with him so he could break me down into wrong stuff with him. But I already knew I must not let him have any power, at all, to affect me emotionally since he was not a deeply sound person. And I knew God's almighty power in God's love could keep me safe while I did things with him. I knew that as long as I did what God had me doing, God would be in control and I could not lose anything that really mattered. And any loss could be a set-up, even being a good investment . . . like how Jesus up on the cross was set ^up^ to do so much more good than anything He might lose in this life.

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

But ones get themselves hurt by not doing things in God's love and leading. He will guide us according to all He knows and the good He is able to create out of any situation.

But we get hurt because we are loving our own lives and worrying about mainly our own selves and not caring about our neighbor as well as we care about ourselves. And so, we are operating in what is not God's wisdom; and so we do things, our own selves, which help to mess up ourselves and our lives >

"'He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'" (John 12:25)

In loving our own lives we can be doing two basic things so we lose everything > one, we are acting in deep weakness in our self-seeking ways of loving, so we are weak for foolish pleasure and this weakness also works overtime to make us weak for deep emotional pain. Because we are not acting in the strength of God's all-loving love >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

In our picky and choosy loving we are in deep weakness so we can easily get hurt and keep on suffering . . . including in unforgiveness, while so cleverly blaming some other person. But in God's *a~l~l*-loving love we share with Him in His strength.

And two > in loving our own lives we are depending on our own ingenuity for getting the friends and pleasures we want. And our self capability makes us sure marks. Because in Satan's kingdom of self-seeking loving . . . this is always how things work. Without Jesus > "you can do nothing" (in John 15:5).

So, Jesus says, "When you stand praying" " forgive" "anyone" (Mark 11:25). Well . . . if I am praying . . . I am communicating, and I find how God can first deal with me about how I was not obeying Him and therefore could get myself in trouble and hurt.

So, whom do I need to forgive, first, then, in such a situation? lolololololololol

Often enough, I can get in trouble inside myself about who knows who, and it helps me to see first how I am my own main problem. Then go from here.

Sorry for taking so long to reply to what is quite a lengthy post and deserved of a response. The thing is that, I find it difficult to follow your sentences. However, forcing myself to do so is of value. I was going to private message you but there didn't seem to be the feature on this forum.

It is useful to point out to me that my prayer should be for others rather than myself. I grew up with the instruction that we pray for ourselves – for the things we want.

I think my negative question about Christians being more prone to harm is a bit of a square circle in that the question itself assumes self-centeredness as the SOP. Of course Christians are not supposed to be overly focused on themselves.

This thread has made me realise though that there is a difference between deliberately taking on risk to oneself in the name of Christian goodwill and taking on risk through naivety. I think though that Christianity, arguably wrongly interpreted, can lead you down the road of naivety, such as seeing the best potential in bad people and getting stung sometimes fatally. I think this can lead to a ‘Christian naivety’ that can put others at risk of harm also – whole nations at harm perhaps.

Getting back to selfless prayer, I do wonder though. I mean there does feel something paradoxical about not valuing things like say winning a competition or doing well in a career, etc in that our souls are only quenched when we do things for others. But why would you wish ‘goods’ for others that as a Christian you don’t wish for or value yourself. As a Christian the ‘artificial’ material achievements are of no value, right? Why wish them for others then?

There’s definitely a paradoxical feel to it, the idea that the true value is in toil for God to serve others things of no true value. Say if I help build my neighbour’s fence I gain for doing the Lord’s work but he gains nothing as a fence is but a material comfort that makes his garden a bit neater and, although important to him, is worthless. The only gifts come from the act of selflessness yet in that act we give to others gifts of no meaning as the only true gifts are in the serving of our Lord not being the recipient of some goods brought to you by someone serving God.

2PhiloVoid · Thursday at 8:37 AM

High Castle said:
Throughout my life I always unfortunately walk just along the very line at where Christianity begins and no further.

This could be because of fundamental concepts that I struggle with. One concerns unrealistic expectations: the idea that you are always sinning even when the bar is practically impossible like perhaps having to not find a hilarious joke funny as it is inappropriate: let’s say it touches on being offensive/dehuminising to some or sick/morbid. Or for instance expecting your average married guy not to touch himself or even experience sexual attractiveness towards a passing beautiful woman.

So I kindly need more help with the above - something I can’t seem to ever get over conceptionally: these unrealistic expectations on people.

Also, as the thread title points to, another massive subject is the meekness aspect to Christianity. I often feel like there are plenty of people out there that pose us potential harm. Sometimes this harm can be small but regular (like the increased likeliness of being taken advantage of in the workplace) and sometimes this potential harm is huge, like having openness and a non-judgmental approach towards otherwise ominous-seeming individuals and ending up being robbed or raped, etc.

Isn’t there something about Christianity that makes one more vulnerable, more likely to be a sucker, more compromising to the point where even whole Christian nations can be put in harms way?

Your thoughts are most welcome.

I don't think Christianity requires we be suckers. According to Matthew, Jesus said for His followers to express shrewdness when dealing with the world by being "As wise as serpents but harmless as doves."

Being aware of how the world may operate and being wary of it reduces our default into being taken advantage of.

com7fy8 · Thursday at 8:57 PM

High Castle said:
This thread has made me realise though that there is a difference between deliberately taking on risk to oneself in the name of Christian goodwill and taking on risk through naivety.

We can pray for God to guide us about which risks to take.

There are risks to take for loving. And whatever you might lose, you get love worth so much more than all we could lose in this life.

A minute or less sharing with a really Christian person does me more good than billions of universes of gold and silver could.

Look at all the risks Jesus took, in order to be here with us; and yet He had good that this evil world could not take from Him.

com7fy8 · Thursday at 9:15 PM

High Castle said:
It is useful to point out to me that my prayer should be for others rather than myself.

Well, may be we should say, "for others as well as for ourselves" . . . since God wants us to love others as ourselves. And actually . . . it can be that in order for me to do good to others, I first need for God to bless me.

This can be like I put my house by a river which does me good, while I welcome the river to flow on to others. I get money for myself and use this for others also.

And I have my lady friend so good for me; but I keep welcoming her to be good for others, however. After all, I can not keep an all-loving person only for myself! I love others as myself, by welcoming however she is good for others.

High Castle said:
I grew up with the instruction that we pray for ourselves – for the things we want.

Well . . . that is interesting: to pray for what I want.

I have discovered how Jesus can bless me at each moment with better than whatever I have been hoping.

And I asked God for a genuinely Christian lady if He made me the way He wanted so He would trust me with a real woman of Jesus. He did better than that which I prayed; what I prayed might seem pretty spiritual to certain people, but . . . uh-uh.

We can't be smart enough as imperfect humans to hope and ask for perfectly what God has to offer us. Plus, we need Him to deeply change us in our character so we are capable of having what really He has for us and so we can perceive and benefit from how He really wants to bless us.

In my case, He has brought me such good things, but often I need to be corrected so I can handle it.

He just totally does things better than we can ask or think, even practically.

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Christianity Makes You More Likely to be a Victim of Unpleasant and Harmful Behavior?

com7fy8

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Bob Carabbio

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High Castle

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2PhiloVoid

Unscrewing Romans 1:32

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com7fy8

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