Angels in modern times?

JohnClay · Feb 18, 2025

In a Christmas Eve service the Lutheran pastor said that angels can sound like fairy tales but it just means "messenger".

The Bible talks about angels appearing to be oridinary people: (list from AI)

Genesis 18:1-15 - Angels visit Abraham and Sarah.

Genesis 19:1-22 - Angels visit Lot in Sodom.

Judges 13:2-25 - Angel appears to Manoah and his wife.

Hebrews 13:2 - This verse is often interpreted as a reminder to be hospitable, as some have unknowingly entertained angels.

So in those cases did an angel just appear as a human (that originally didn't exist) and when they finish the person disappears?

What if face recognition had been used while they were a human? Would it have a match and have a photo on file, etc?

Then there are angels that are obviously angels - and they can appear to multiple people at once (like the shepherds) but based on the Bible that seems to be very rare.

Reluctant Theologian · Feb 18, 2025

JohnClay said:
In a Christmas Eve service the Lutheran pastor said that angels can sound like fairy tales but it just means "messenger".

The Bible talks about angels appearing to be oridinary people: (list from AI)

So in those cases did an angel just appear as a human (that originally didn't exist) and when they finish the person disappears?

What if face recognition had been used while they were a human? Would it have a match and have a photo on file, etc?

Then there are angels that are obviously angels - and they can appear to multiple people at once (like the shepherds) but based on the Bible that seems to be very rare.

True, both in Hebrew and Greek the words just mean 'messenger' so for a better understanding of your Bible it's best to forget the English word 'angel' altogether (as it's just a transliteration of the Greek word for messenger). Just read messenger in all those instances where the Hebrew/Greek words appear ...

A messenger can be a human being, and sometimes a heavenly creature .. Hebrew has separate words for Seraph and Cherub - these are heavenly beings with wings .... they can act like messengers though.

A similar thing holds for the word 'apostle' - it simply means someone who is commissioned to do something. So e.g. in Greek if you send your son to the bakery to buy some bread, your son would be your apostle for that moment to get the bread.

In the NT sometimes the word 'apostle' is used in that generic sense - someones it speaks of 'the Apostles' i.e. those specially commissioned by Yeshua himself to witness and have a certain authority.

JohnClay · Feb 18, 2025

@Reluctant Theologian
Just wondering about angels in modern times - do they just appear as a brand new human then later disappear?

Reluctant Theologian · Feb 18, 2025

JohnClay said:
@Reluctant Theologian
Just wondering about angels in modern times - do they just appear as a brand new human then later disappear?

If you're asking me about messengers from heaven - then I'd say maybe .. I don't know - we don't have to know. But God may also send you just another human being as His messenger .. to convey something to you.

Hazelelponi · Feb 18, 2025

JohnClay said:
In a Christmas Eve service the Lutheran pastor said that angels can sound like fairy tales but it just means "messenger".

The Bible talks about angels appearing to be oridinary people: (list from AI)

So in those cases did an angel just appear as a human (that originally didn't exist) and when they finish the person disappears?

What if face recognition had been used while they were a human? Would it have a match and have a photo on file, etc?

Then there are angels that are obviously angels - and they can appear to multiple people at once (like the shepherds) but based on the Bible that seems to be very rare.

We could consider a Spirit-filled Pastor an actual messenger of God - aka, an angel because they are annointed by God to bring a message to human beings. It's an actual fearful thing not to heed the Pastor, because he speaks the very Word of God.

But we also believe there are actual spirit-beings, a different type of creation altogether, who likewise can appear, (if it's God's will) as human beings and they probably disappear after they completed the task God assigned them. These are not humans but whether they disappear is not known to us, it's just guessing.

Hazelelponi · Feb 18, 2025

JohnClay said:
@Reluctant Theologian
Just wondering about angels in modern times - do they just appear as a brand new human then later disappear?

The only approved accounting of Angels is found in Scripture, we have no record from God of modern times, we cannot speculate.

Closest can know for modern times is pastors who are annointed by God. (This is definitely not everyone who calls themselves a pastor) but they are just people.

NBB · Feb 18, 2025

'He would sends his angels so you don't trip on the rocks".
Angels are spiritual beings, how they can be seen as people idk, but they are spirits, and invisible to the human eye.

JohnClay · Feb 19, 2025

NBB said:
'He would sends his angels so you don't trip on the rocks".
Angels are spiritual beings, how they can be seen as people idk, but they are spirits, and invisible to the human eye.

What about where it says that the shepherds saw many angels?

NBB · Feb 19, 2025

JohnClay said:
What about where it says that the shepherds saw many angels?

Yes, the bible says angels appeared visibly, idk how thats supposed to be, but the spiritual realm is not visible to the eye. The same as evil spirits they can't be seen. They can be discerned though and their actions felt.

Reluctant Theologian · Feb 19, 2025

NBB said:
'He would sends his angels so you don't trip on the rocks".
Angels are spiritual beings, how they can be seen as people idk, but they are spirits, and invisible to the human eye.

That depends on what type of 'angels' you refer to ...

Where the Hebrew or Greek word for the English 'angel' appears .. it means literally always just 'messenger' ... but the type of messenger in question can vary .. sometimes it may be a human being, sometimes a heavenly being. But you can't (given the Hebrew/Greek original words) say that 'angels are (always) spiritual beings'. That's only the case if you narrow down your definition of 'angel' in English .. but for the Hebrew/Greek words one cannot do that.

The confusion disappears when one simply removes the word 'angel' from your translation - and simply reads messenger for it (except for the cases in TNK/OT where the words Cherub and Seraph are used .. because those are indeed by definition heavenly beings).

Maria Billingsley · Feb 19, 2025

JohnClay said:
In a Christmas Eve service the Lutheran pastor said that angels can sound like fairy tales but it just means "messenger".

The Bible talks about angels appearing to be oridinary people: (list from AI)

So in those cases did an angel just appear as a human (that originally didn't exist) and when they finish the person disappears?

What if face recognition had been used while they were a human? Would it have a match and have a photo on file, etc?

Then there are angels that are obviously angels - and they can appear to multiple people at once (like the shepherds) but based on the Bible that seems to be very rare.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth left us His final message Himself. He lives in the believer through His Holy Spirit. We now receive messages directly from Him.
Blessings

ViaCrucis · Feb 19, 2025

JohnClay said:
@Reluctant Theologian
Just wondering about angels in modern times - do they just appear as a brand new human then later disappear?

If an angel, in the sense of a heavenly creature, were to appear as a human, then yes, it would probably be like a brand new person showed up and then was gone.

In the Epistle to the Hebrews there is a reference to being hospitable to everyone, and (possibly an oblique reference to the Hospitality of Abraham in Genesis) in doing so some have--or may--end up entertaining angels completely unaware. Entertaining in the sense of treating with hospitality and having a guest, e.g. "entertaining a dinner guest". The unaware part, I think is meaningful. I'd be highly, incredibly, suspicious of anyone claiming an encounter with an angel. The ministry of God's angels is, with incredibly few exceptions, unknown and unknowable to us, happening in the invisible backdrop of the world. This is also why the Bible warns against deeply flawed views of angels (there apparently was a bit of an angel cult in the ancient world, and some went so far as to worship angels), and also warns that the devil can appear "as an angel of light", that can be metaphorical in the sense that the devil may offer what appears good but is actually bad, but it can just as easily be quite literal. And it's why Christians, and good Christian teachers, very often, warn against an undue focus on angels.

-CryptoLutheran

Dan Perez · Mar 2, 2025

ViaCrucis said:
If an angel, in the sense of a heavenly creature, were to appear as a human, then yes, it would probably be like a brand new person showed up and then was gone.

In the Epistle to the Hebrews there is a reference to being hospitable to everyone, and (possibly an oblique reference to the Hospitality of Abraham in Genesis) in doing so some have--or may--end up entertaining angels completely unaware. Entertaining in the sense of treating with hospitality and having a guest, e.g. "entertaining a dinner guest". The unaware part, I think is meaningful. I'd be highly, incredibly, suspicious of anyone claiming an encounter with an angel. The ministry of God's angels is, with incredibly few exceptions, unknown and unknowable to us, happening in the invisible backdrop of the world. This is also why the Bible warns against deeply flawed views of angels (there apparently was a bit of an angel cult in the ancient world, and some went so far as to worship angels), and also warns that the devil can appear "as an angel of light", that can be metaphorical in the sense that the devil may offer what appears good but is actually bad, but it can just as easily be quite literal. And it's why Christians, and good Christian teachers, very often, warn against an undue focus on angels.

-CryptoLutheran

AND in 1 Cor 4:9 it says that we are a THEATER to the world and to ANGELS and to men !! I would say , be carful

what you say !!

dan p

dan p

Aaron112 · Mar 12, 2025

JohnClay said:
What about where it says that the shepherds saw many angels?

What about that interests you ? Are you seeking to seek the Kingdom of Heaven today ?

JohnClay · Mar 12, 2025

Aaron112 said:
What about that interests you ? Are you seeking to seek the Kingdom of Heaven today ?

Like that pastor says it can seem like that story is a fairy tale... if large numbers of angels appeared to all of the shepherds I'd be interested in seeing proof that it has happened in modern times. Though perhaps angels have only appeared to groups of humans like that a couple of times - basically only the times that are mentioned in the Bible.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 12, 2025

JohnClay said:
Like that pastor says it can seem like that story is a fairy tale... if large numbers of angels appeared to all of the shepherds I'd be interested in seeing proof that it has happened in modern times. Though perhaps angels have only appeared to groups of humans like that a couple of times - basically only the times that are mentioned in the Bible.

I tend to lean toward your thoughtful conclusion here, John. It's probably best to view it this way, without any of us building up unnecessary expectations about angels.

ViaCrucis · Apr 3, 2025

JohnClay said:
Like that pastor says it can seem like that story is a fairy tale... if large numbers of angels appeared to all of the shepherds I'd be interested in seeing proof that it has happened in modern times. Though perhaps angels have only appeared to groups of humans like that a couple of times - basically only the times that are mentioned in the Bible.

If throngs of angels were appearing like that on the regular, it wouldn't go unnoticed and the story as presented wouldn't treat this event as the sort of astonishing amazing thing that it is depicted as being.

When angels make their presence known, it is always a big deal.

So, yes, the assumption of the biblical writers is that when angels show up, it's incredibly rare and it's a very big deal.

Angels don't show up, especially in great throngs, just to say what's up.

-CryptoLutheran

Angels in modern times?

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