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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
ICE Arrests Palestinian Ringleader of Anti-Israel Columbia Protests
- Thread starter Valletta
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That depends greatly upon the particulars. IANAL but from what I understand it would have to be a credible and partularized threat (ie not a general statement) to not be covered.
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- Oct 10, 2020
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I don't think we should compromise our ideals. Whether the first amendment applies to non-citizens has not been resolved because the Constitution does not say whether "We the people" includes non-citizens. That being said, the Immigration and Nationality Act states that whoever “endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization” can indeed be found in violation of the Act and can be deported. Khalil was one of the leaders of a protest that handed out Hamas literature. Thus it appears he is in violation of the Act.
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The first amendment is a limit on the government and case law answered the question of non citizens long ago. As such I find your claims about the Khalil act unlikely.
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- Oct 10, 2020
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Incorrect. For example, Obama's DOJ, in regard to illegal immigrants, stated, in response to a lawsuit, that they DO NOT have rights under the First Amendment. Obama's people based their argument on a previous Supreme Court ruling. I have provided you a link to that case:
Pineda Cruz v. Thompson 5:15-cv-00326 (W.D. Tex.) | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse
index,follow
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Incorrect. For example, Obama's DOJ, in regard to illegal immigrants, stated, in response to a lawsuit, that they DO NOT have rights under the First Amendment. Obama's people based their argument on a previous Supreme Court ruling. I have provided you a link to that case:
Pineda Cruz v. Thompson 5:15-cv-00326 (W.D. Tex.) | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse
index,followclearinghouse.net
Legal aliens enjoy First Amendment rights
Once situated lawfully in the United States, aliens enjoy First Amendment rights.As Justice Francis W. Murphy described the law in his concurrence in Bridges v. Wixon (1945), “the Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders.”
First Amendment Rights of Non-Citizens, Aliens
Although the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution makes no distinction between citizens and noncitizens, the Court has not always treated these groups the same.
firstamendment.mtsu.edu
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That's a 1945 individual opinion, the Obama White House (much more recent) took an opposite approach-- thus your statement that "The first amendment is a limit on the government and case law answered the question of non citizens long ago" is obviously incorrect.Legal aliens enjoy First Amendment rights
Once situated lawfully in the United States, aliens enjoy First Amendment rights.
As Justice Francis W. Murphy described the law in his concurrence in Bridges v. Wixon (1945), “the Bill of Rights is a futile authority for the alien seeking admission for the first time to these shores. But once an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders.”
First Amendment Rights of Non-Citizens, Aliens
Although the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution makes no distinction between citizens and noncitizens, the Court has not always treated these groups the same.
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Bradskii
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I don't think anyone has suggested that. If you think someone has then the usual course is to quote that person and discuss what they said. As opposed to making up a scenario which is clearly not a first amendment concern.
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JosephZ
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Incorrect. For example, Obama's DOJ, in regard to illegal immigrants, stated, in response to a lawsuit, that they DO NOT have rights under the First Amendment. Obama's people based their argument on a previous Supreme Court ruling. I have provided you a link to that case:
Pineda Cruz v. Thompson 5:15-cv-00326 (W.D. Tex.) | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse
index,follow
There was no ruling in the Cruz v. Thompson case you linked to.
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I was referring to what the Obama DOJ argued. The Supreme Court may have to jump into this one soon. They may decide that green card holders have different rights than those who entered illegally, who knows? But he should be deported because he led a protest where his followers handed out pro-Hamas literature, and Hamas had been designated a terrorist organization for a long time.
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Stop complaining about how I post. I don't have to be like you.
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essentialsaltes
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Does it incite imminent lawless action? If said outside a synagogue, maybe not protected.
Is it in a letter mailed to synagogues, almost certainly not protected.
Is it a credible threat? If so, it's no longer a speech issue.
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