Portugal rules out buying F-35s because of Trump

trophy33 · Mar 14, 2025

The country’s air force has recommended buying the jets, but the outgoing defense minister said “the predictability of our allies” must be taken into account when making procurement decisions.

Portugal wobbles on buying F-35s because of Trump

The country’s defense ministry says that the Lockheed Martin F-35s “were not ruled out.”

www.politico.eu

Laodicean60 · Mar 14, 2025

trophy33 said:
The country’s air force has recommended buying the jets, but the outgoing defense minister said “the predictability of our allies” must be taken into account when making procurement decisions.

This is ok because we need to reduce the size of our military industrial complexes.

trophy33 · Mar 14, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
This is ok because we need to reduce the size of our military industrial complexes.

There are already 570+ F35s ordered by the EU countries:

Paulos23 · Mar 14, 2025

Here is another take. When we make weapons for our allies, those weapons become cheaper for us. If none of our allies don't buy our weapons, they become more expensive for us.

DaisyDay · Mar 14, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
This is ok because we need to reduce the size of our military industrial complexes.

While we do "need" to reduce the size of our military industrial complex, cutting it drastically will adversely affect our economy which is having problems at the moment, what with the trade wars and all. Weapons manufacturing and export is a yuge part of the US economy. However, France is positioned to take up the slack. This might boost China's share of the arms market as well.

Aryeh Jay · Mar 14, 2025

Good, if we ever have to liberate Portugal from an unfriendly government, we will be facing inferior aircraft.

Nithavela · Mar 14, 2025

Aryeh Jay said:
Good, if we ever have to liberate Portugal from an unfriendly government, we will be facing inferior aircraft.

You won't be able to shut them off with a killswitch, though.

hedrick · Mar 14, 2025

Paulos23 said:
Here is another take. When we make weapons for our allies, those weapons become cheaper for us. If none of our allies don't buy our weapons, they become more expensive for us.

Also, it’s not so clear that our defense contractors are up to competing with Europe. Boeing is trying to recover from management that put short term profits over long term development. This is common in the US. If we force Europe to build an independent defense, they’ll do it by investing in their own industry. Tariffs will only make things worse, as we saw decades ago when our steel industry failed to keep up wit the rest of the world.

Merrill · Mar 14, 2025

Is there some Moorish invasion they are worried about?

What do they need these fighter jets for exactly? lol

Nithavela · Mar 14, 2025

Merrill said:
Is there some Moorish invasion they are worried about?

What do they need these fighter jets for exactly? lol

Portugal is a member of NATO.

civilwarbuff · Mar 14, 2025

trophy33 said:
The country’s air force has recommended buying the jets, but the outgoing defense minister said “the predictability of our allies” must be taken into account when making procurement decisions.

Isn't that what we call 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'?

Merrill · Mar 14, 2025

Nithavela said:
Portugal is a member of NATO.

They don't need to buy extremely expensive next-generation fighter jets. Complete waste of money

Portugal isn't going to be any kind of major player in any military conflict going forward

Laodicean60 · Mar 14, 2025

trophy33 said:
There are already 570+ F35s ordered by the EU countries:

And your point?

Laodicean60 · Mar 14, 2025

DaisyDay said:
, cutting it drastically will adversely affect our economy which is having problems at the moment, what with the trade wars and all.

Yes, it will. The underlying economy was weak to begin with, and tariffs will accelerate a recession.

DaisyDay said:
This might boost China's share of the arms market as well.

The only thing about China's arms is that they haven't been battle tested, and they are currently providing Russia with support equipment.

trophy33 · Mar 15, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
And your point?

You said: "This is ok because we need to reduce the size of our military industrial complexes."

My point: Portugal cancelling a dozen, but the EU as such ordering about 600.

trophy33 · Mar 15, 2025

civilwarbuff said:
Isn't that what we call 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'?

No idea. Either what this is supposed to mean or whether it is that.

mindlight · Mar 15, 2025

trophy33 said:
The country’s air force has recommended buying the jets, but the outgoing defense minister said “the predictability of our allies” must be taken into account when making procurement decisions.

Portugal wobbles on buying F-35s because of Trump

The country’s defense ministry says that the Lockheed Martin F-35s “were not ruled out.”

www.politico.eu

The F-35 is an amazing aircraft, and as long as Europe and the USA are allies, it remains a crucial component of the force matrix. It has stealth and over-the-horizon capabilities that most European fighters cannot match yet. However, if the USA is going its own way, then local procurement options may be better for European security and also its economy. There are various viable alternatives available now, and with a bit of investment, Europe has the infrastructure to build comparable or even better aircraft than the Americans. In fact, even if we remain allies of America, this is probably something Europe should do. Airbus already competes with Boeing in the civil aircraft field. If Europe is comparable to the USA in defence spending, then it will have its own homegrown options and supply chains.

The Typhoon - Eurofighter - Airbus
Rafaele - Dassault
Gripen - Saab

trophy33 · Mar 15, 2025

mindlight said:
The F-35 is an amazing aircraft, and as long as Europe and the USA are allies, it remains a crucial component of the force matrix. It has stealth and over-the-horizon capabilities that most European fighters cannot match yet. However, if the USA is going its own way, then local procurement options may be better for European security and also its economy. There are various viable alternatives available now, and with a bit of investment, Europe has the infrastructure to build comparable or even better aircraft than the Americans. In fact, even if we remain allies of America, this is probably something Europe should do. Airbus already competes with Boeing in the civil aircraft field. If Europe is comparable to the USA in defence spending, then it will have its own homegrown options and supply chains.

The Typhoon - Eurofighter - Airbus
Rafaele - Dassault
Gripen - Saab

I do not know about Eurofighter or Rafale, but about 1/3 of Gripen components (for example engines) are sourced in the USA, so it is still quite dependent on the US politics.

Nithavela · Mar 15, 2025

Merrill said:
They don't need to buy extremely expensive next-generation fighter jets. Complete waste of money

Portugal isn't going to be any kind of major player in any military conflict going forward

You disagree with Trump when he demands that all NATO members beef up their military?

mindlight · Mar 15, 2025

trophy33 said:
I do not know about Eurofighter or Rafale, but about 1/3 of Gripen components (for example engines) are sourced in the USA, so it is still quite dependent on the US politics.

Eurofighters and Rafales are locally sourced. The German Next Generation Fighter project and the British-Italian-Japanese Global Combat Air Programme are also quite exciting. Europe has viable options to the USA manufacturers. The stock market seems to feel this. European defence manufacturers are booming while American ones are falling. Markets know that Europe is in no mood to buy America's stuff with all these sanctions and stupidities in the air right now.

Portugal rules out buying F-35s because of Trump

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