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Trump vs. Ukraine, or Trump vs. Zelensky

Dale

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President Trump recently told Ukraine’s President Zelensky that he “didn’t have the cards.” Three years into all-out war with Russia, things are a mess. Zelensky was told to give up, and he rightly responded, “We’re not playing cards.”

By the same logic, Donald Trump would have told George Washington to give up. The Continental Congress appointed George Washington Commander in Chief in 1776. In 1779, three years later, the American forces were losing about as many battles as they were winning. The battles won by Americans were not always the ones that mattered. In 1780, things got worse, as the British captured Charleston, South Carolina.

To listen to Donald Trump, you would think that the US is the only country supplying weapons to Ukraine. Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland and Finland are among the countries sending weapons to aid Zelensky’s cause. The British have designed weapons specifically for use in the Ukraine war. Germany is sending its most modern tanks to Ukraine, tanks that the German army doesn’t have yet. Ukraine is making some of its own weapons, including military drones.

In the past, the US was a leader against tyranny. Under Donald Trump, the US can’t even manage to follow what is clear to our allies.

Some Americans are fighting to defend Ukraine. No one seems to know exactly how many of these volunteers there are, or how many have been killed. CNN ran a story, “American Soldiers are Dying in Ukraine …,” on January 30, 2025. The story indicates that at least 44 Americans have died fighting for Ukraine. Unlike Donald Trump, some Americans feel compassion for Ukraine and feel compelled to take action.


CNN Story:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/30/euro...raine-bodies-repatriation-intl-cmd/index.html
 

RileyG

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Servus

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President Trump recently told Ukraine’s President Zelensky that he “didn’t have the cards.” Three years into all-out war with Russia, things are a mess. Zelensky was told to give up, and he rightly responded, “We’re not playing cards.”

By the same logic, Donald Trump would have told George Washington to give up. The Continental Congress appointed George Washington Commander in Chief in 1776. In 1779, three years later, the American forces were losing about as many battles as they were winning. The battles won by Americans were not always the ones that mattered. In 1780, things got worse, as the British captured Charleston, South Carolina.

To listen to Donald Trump, you would think that the US is the only country supplying weapons to Ukraine. Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland and Finland are among the countries sending weapons to aid Zelensky’s cause. The British have designed weapons specifically for use in the Ukraine war. Germany is sending its most modern tanks to Ukraine, tanks that the German army doesn’t have yet. Ukraine is making some of its own weapons, including military drones.

In the past, the US was a leader against tyranny. Under Donald Trump, the US can’t even manage to follow what is clear to our allies.

Some Americans are fighting to defend Ukraine. No one seems to know exactly how many of these volunteers there are, or how many have been killed. CNN ran a story, “American Soldiers are Dying in Ukraine …,” on January 30, 2025. The story indicates that at least 44 Americans have died fighting for Ukraine. Unlike Donald Trump, some Americans feel compassion for Ukraine and feel compelled to take action.

CNN Story:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/30/euro...raine-bodies-repatriation-intl-cmd/index.html
Gee why hasn't Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland and Finland etc resolved the situation then? Why haven't they "stopped Putin" as Zelenskyy put it, citing that America has failed to do so.

Zelenskyy probably wasn't familiar with the expression "Not having any cards to play", which means being in a situation where you have no options, arguments, or resources to use to your advantage or to resolve a problem. He wasn't in a position to dictate the terms of how the United States was supposed to end the war for him. Trump has a plan that will probably work, that probably only he can put forth, because he's "buddies with Putin". And it's going to have to involve compromise. Give and take.

Zelenskyy seems to want Trump to just wave a wand and magically make Putin go away, without Ukraine giving up a single thing. And that would be the ideal situation of course, but that's not going to happen. The only thing that's likely to work is Zelenskyy going along with however Trump wants to handle the situation, and Putin, because they are the ones holding all the cards. If Zelenskyy decides to prolong the war instead of accepting the negotiated compromise America has to offer, then why should America finance it? If we're going to go with the attitude that Ukraine doesn't really need the US because they have Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland and Finland etc to finance and supply an indefinite war, then it really shouldn't matter if America leaves it in their capable hands.
 
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Richard T

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Kennedy was great, "Ich bin eine Berliner." (not sure of the spelling). Kennedy knew what the fall of the Western portion of Berlin meant. Hence the airlift and all the help the allied part of Berlin needed. Sadly those days are over. Ukraine seems just in defending its territory, but where are the Kennedy's? Not enough from the EU and not enough from Trump.
I am sure when Zelensky went to war he counted the costs. I have to admit it must have been a tough choice. He knew it could be a slog, even that it might be impossible to take on Russia. The USA/EU encouraged him, so is he to blame now? No it is the weak partners. The EU failed to sanction Russia sufficiently from the start, the USA failed to also help Ukraine really win. For the EU it was about ruining their economies. (What they feared came upon them) for the USA it was the fear once again of a direct confrontation with Russia. (which still is possible, with a much wider conflict. It could be that China is emboldened to take Taiwan because of the lackluster response from the West.)
Sorry Ukraine, your partners were not just that much into you. Russia with 20% inflation is not exactly doing great. If only the allies were single-minded. Perhaps the EU will step up and the mineral wealth deal will keep Trump somewhat interested. It could be that Trump's strategy ends this conflict. It is pragmatic if the truce succeeds and holds. I guess we may find out soon enough.
 
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Merrill

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Ukraine is losing ground in Kharkiv and in the eastern regions as we write. They are low on soldiers.

There is no scenario where Ukraine "wins" this war (which would involve all Russian forces being pulled back, abandoning the occupied regions, and Putin basically stepping down)

Putin could do a general mobilization tomorrow, and pull in more troops from NK. He could dump a million men into Ukraine, or even use nukes if he had to. This neocon/neoliberal fantasy of a Ukrainian victory needs to go away. Now it would be very damaging to his economy and nation if he did this (and Russia has already suffered)--but Russians don't care.

Russia's inflation rate is not 20% --it is lower now than it was in 2015. Their GDP is up 3 out of the last 5 quarters. Sanctions have totally failed.

Life isn't fair. History isn't fair. Sometimes a bully gets what he wants, but in this case it will be a tremendous cost, and the bully will think twice before attacking again.

We will see what Russia says to the ceasefire proposal (looks like they are going to reject it--which would be foolish).

The European nations are pretty much irrelevant in all of this, even though they pretend like Putin even takes them into consideration

There will either be a peace treaty which stops all this or a lot more people will die, and street-to-street fighting could become a reality in Khiv a year from now. The whole region will be rubble.
 
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Dale

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Ukraine is losing ground in Kharkiv and in the eastern regions as we write. They are low on soldiers.

There is no scenario where Ukraine "wins" this war (which would involve all Russian forces being pulled back, abandoning the occupied regions, and Putin basically stepping down)

Putin could do a general mobilization tomorrow, and pull in more troops from NK. He could dump a million men into Ukraine, or even use nukes if he had to. This neocon/neoliberal fantasy of a Ukrainian victory needs to go away. Now it would be very damaging to his economy and nation if he did this (and Russia has already suffered)--but Russians don't care.

Russia's inflation rate is not 20% --it is lower now than it was in 2015. Their GDP is up 3 out of the last 5 quarters. Sanctions have totally failed.

Life isn't fair. History isn't fair. Sometimes a bully gets what he wants, but in this case it will be a tremendous cost, and the bully will think twice before attacking again.

We will see what Russia says to the ceasefire proposal (looks like they are going to reject it--which would be foolish).

The European nations are pretty much irrelevant in all of this, even though they pretend like Putin even takes them into consideration

There will either be a peace treaty which stops all this or a lot more people will die, and street-to-street fighting could become a reality in Khiv a year from now. The whole region will be rubble.

Merrill,

Does it occur to you that Russia is using North Korean troops because they have a shortage of soldiers? And because Russians are not signing up for combat in Ukraine?

According to Reuters, 12,000 North Korean troops joined the war in January. Shortly after that, Ukraine reported that 3,000 of them had been killed or injured. Other sources say that North Korean soldiers are deserting.

When Russia invaded Ukraine three years ago, many thought they would take Ukraine in a few days, or at most a few weeks. That didn’t happen. The Ukrainians have fought back bravely and with great ingenuity. They have managed to take the war to the enemy, sinking Russian ships, and striking targets deep into Russia.

Since the end of the Vietnam War, the US has been reluctant to get involved in any war, unless we are attacked directly. We should not forget that much of the problem with South Vietnam is that the Vietnamese, or their leaders, lacked the will to fight. That isn’t the problem in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have done much better than anyone expected.

Source
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...roops-joining-russias-war-ukraine-2025-02-18/
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Merrill,

Does it occur to you that Russia is using North Korean troops because they have a shortage of soldiers? And because Russians are not signing up for combat in Ukraine?

According to Reuters, 12,000 North Korean troops joined the war in January. Shortly after that, Ukraine reported that 3,000 of them had been killed or injured. Other sources say that North Korean soldiers are deserting.

When Russia invaded Ukraine three years ago, many thought they would take Ukraine in a few days, or at most a few weeks. That didn’t happen. The Ukrainians have fought back bravely and with great ingenuity. They have managed to take the war to the enemy, sinking Russian ships, and striking targets deep into Russia.

Since the end of the Vietnam War, the US has been reluctant to get involved in any war, unless we are attacked directly. We should not forget that much of the problem with South Vietnam is that the Vietnamese, or their leaders, lacked the will to fight. That isn’t the problem in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have done much better than anyone expected.

Source
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...roops-joining-russias-war-ukraine-2025-02-18/
Given the population of Russia and Nationalism of the average Russian I don't see them having manpower problems. They aren't vanning people like the Ukraine is and the number of volunteers appears to be consistent. The use of NK troops (which I've not seen verified through video footage) makes sense if the North Koreans offered it to Russia. Why turn down a volunteer force? Ukraine accepted Western volunteers in 2022 when its army was much bigger. During the Spanish Civil War both sides accepted German, Italian and Soviet aid. It's normal and makes logical sense to accept volunteers when they come your way.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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I want to share a rather sobering and depressing video I saw yesterday that made me reflect on the whole situation of Russia Ukraine. Ultimately this war is a tragedy which has likely forever crippled a fledgling state. We should not be celebrating the deaths of Russians or Ukranians but lamenting their loss.

 
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Laodicean60

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Does it occur to you that Russia is using North Korean troops because they have a shortage of soldiers?
Does it occur to you that the 13000 troops offered to Russia are 13000 alive Russians?
They have managed to take the war to the enemy, sinking Russian ships, and striking targets deep into Russia.
But currently, they are losing land.
 
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Laodicean60

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Given the population of Russia and Nationalism of the average Russian I don't see them having manpower problems.
Especially when they see NATO trying to surround them. Russian boomers have been watching it for the last 35 years.
 
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Dale

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Ukraine is losing ground in Kharkiv and in the eastern regions as we write. They are low on soldiers.

There is no scenario where Ukraine "wins" this war (which would involve all Russian forces being pulled back, abandoning the occupied regions, and Putin basically stepping down)

Putin could do a general mobilization tomorrow, and pull in more troops from NK. He could dump a million men into Ukraine, or even use nukes if he had to. This neocon/neoliberal fantasy of a Ukrainian victory needs to go away. Now it would be very damaging to his economy and nation if he did this (and Russia has already suffered)--but Russians don't care.

Russia's inflation rate is not 20% --it is lower now than it was in 2015. Their GDP is up 3 out of the last 5 quarters. Sanctions have totally failed.

Life isn't fair. History isn't fair. Sometimes a bully gets what he wants, but in this case it will be a tremendous cost, and the bully will think twice before attacking again.

We will see what Russia says to the ceasefire proposal (looks like they are going to reject it--which would be foolish).

The European nations are pretty much irrelevant in all of this, even though they pretend like Putin even takes them into consideration

There will either be a peace treaty which stops all this or a lot more people will die, and street-to-street fighting could become a reality in Khiv a year from now. The whole region will be rubble.

I want to share a rather sobering and depressing video I saw yesterday that made me reflect on the whole situation of Russia Ukraine. Ultimately this war is a tragedy which has likely forever crippled a fledgling state. We should not be celebrating the deaths of Russians or Ukranians but lamenting their loss.


Especially when they see NATO trying to surround them. Russian boomers have been watching it for the last 35 years.

Russia as a whole does not have an argument with Ukraine. The war against Ukraine is Putin's war.
Vladimir Putin could die of a stroke or a heart attack tomorrow. That's a reason for Ukraine to fight on.
 
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John G.

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Russia as a whole does not have an argument with Ukraine. The war against Ukraine is Putin's war.
Vladimir Putin could die of a stroke or a heart attack tomorrow. That's a reason for Ukraine to fight on.

Where do you people get your information from?
Putin's approval rating hovers over the 80% mark.
The vast majority of the Russian people approve his handling of the special military operation.

Btw, if anything happens to Vladimir Putin, very likely Medvedev would succeed him and then you would see Russia's gloves come off.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Russia as a whole does not have an argument with Ukraine. The war against Ukraine is Putin's war.
Vladimir Putin could die of a stroke or a heart attack tomorrow. That's a reason for Ukraine to fight on.
I'd say Russias main argument is that it cannot tolerate what it perceives as a hostile military alliance right next to it in a country as significant as Ukraine.

You're encouraging them to fight a war they cannot win.
 
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