• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump threatens new sanctions on Russia

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
13,831
5,694
European Union
✟237,339.00
Country
Czech Republic
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No matter how much equipment we give them, they won't be able to field the equipment due to manpower and training.
Ukraine is in a full war with Russia for 3 years and defended not just the capital against several special forces attacks, but also the vast majority of Ukraine. They even got into Russia, developed new strategies, their own drones and missiles etc.

After those 3 years of full blown war, I would say they are better than even the US soldiers. The equipment, though, is not the 1st class. And without the US intelligence, they are basically blind. I do not know to what degree can for example France replace it.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 12, 2010
485
665
United Kingdom
✟321,416.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0
Jul 12, 2010
485
665
United Kingdom
✟321,416.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I can see where Ukranian soldiers may see it that way.

But ultimately, what other pressure points are there that can be used against Zelensky to get him to the peace talk table and make him open to a few concessions? (which will required... the notion that Russia is just going to walk away completely empty handed is a pipe dream)
Why should any pressure be put on Zelensky? Putin's the invader!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
26,252
18,869
56
USA
✟492,046.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
No matter how much equipment we give them, they won't be able to field the equipment due to manpower and training. If America was in Ukraine, Russia would have already cried uncle or nuked us because we are a highly trained fighting machine.

Why the 2 year old article that comes specifically from the period when a large variety of unfamiliar equipment was just delivered and the suppliers were pushing hard for Ukraine to use that equipment in a spring/summer offensive?
 
Upvote 0
Jul 12, 2010
485
665
United Kingdom
✟321,416.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
It’s not their choice if they are conscripted
It was their choice to stay in Ukraine. A country they know has conscription. A country they know is being invaded.

Many Ukrainians left and many stayed. The ones who stayed will fight to protect their homes and families. They know what happened in Bucha. The rape and murder of women and children. The men and boys being tortured to death. The mass graves They don't want the same to happen to their, or other, families.

Russia has a history of stopping wars when they are weak, rebuilding their army, then attacking again. Russia cannot be trusted.
 
Upvote 0

Laodicean60

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2023
5,653
2,399
66
NM
✟131,053.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Why the 2 year old article that comes specifically from the period when a large variety of unfamiliar equipment was just delivered and the suppliers were pushing hard for Ukraine to use that equipment in a spring/summer offensive?
Are you saying they are getting more time training today on the weapon systems?
 
Upvote 0

wing2000

E pluribus unum
Site Supporter
Aug 18, 2012
27,056
22,654
✟1,932,141.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What are the details/specifics of the UK/France proposal?

Are there any points in it that would prevent Russia from coming to the table?

I have not seen any specifics other than the UK and France would be willing to send "thousands" of their troops after the fighting stops.
Russia is opposed to having any "NATO" troops involved. I suppose a UN managed force comprise of soldiers fron non-NATO countries could be used, but in practical terms (cost and logistics) it would make more sense to use NATO troops. It would not be considered a NATO operation.

However, as I questioned earlier, I doubt Putin really has an interest in halting military operations. The attack this past week, occuring just hours after the US announced it was no longer providing imaging support, may be a sign that Putin is using Trump to further weaken Ukraine and take even more territory.
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
17,733
7,860
62
Montgomery
✟307,261.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It was their choice to stay in Ukraine. A country they know has conscription. A country they know is being invaded.

Many Ukrainians left and many stayed. The ones who stayed will fight to protect their homes and families. They know what happened in Bucha. The rape and murder of women and children. The men and boys being tortured to death. The mass graves They don't want the same to happen to their, or other, families.

Russia has a history of stopping wars when they are weak, rebuilding their army, then attacking again. Russia cannot be trusted.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Reconstruction 3 will come
Mar 11, 2017
26,252
18,869
56
USA
✟492,046.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Are you saying they are getting more time training today on the weapon systems?
One would think so. Your article doesn't say either way because it is old. Things can change quickly in war and there have been quite a few innovations in tactics and tools (drones for example) during the war.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
31,151
17,754
Here
✟1,637,690.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Why should any pressure be put on Zelensky? Putin's the invader!

...because life isn't fair, the world is messy, and often times things don't conform to an "in a perfect world" vision that people have in their heads.


It's the same reason why world leaders will "cut deals" in other realms if a serves a greater end, even if it's partial capitulation to "the bad guy"

Is it "fair"? No...

Good example:
It's not "fair" that we had any country had to even consider an "Iran Nuclear Deal".

In a perfect world, Iran would just be good global citizens and not threaten to nuke people and fund terror proxies, right? We shouldn't have to offer a country "perks" or offer to give them back previously seized ill-gotten gains for them to behave if everything was "fair".


"No Iran, we're not going to give you back previously seized ill-gotten money, it was frozen for good reason, we're not going to help you boost your oil exports, and we're not going to help facilitate increasing foreign investment into your country, you need to be shunned and live with the consequences of your actions" would've been the "fair/just" thing to do.

...but that's obviously not what happened.

Instead, the US/UK put pressure on other countries to make peace with the idea, even though it meant "giving in to the bad guy" to a degree, because they felt it staved off a potentially worse situation, right?


So, in that sense, consider this with the same rationale/lens as the JCPOA (Iran Nuclear Deal).


If anyone was in favor of the Iran Nuclear Deal, then they understand the rationale of "sometimes you gotta suck it up and give into the bad guy a little bit to stave off an outcome that's even worse, even if it's not fair".

If they staunchly supported making concessions to Iran, but staunchly oppose making any concession to Russia, then dare I say, perhaps there's some ideological consistency lacking, and perhaps their positions are less about the actual "practice" of conceding a little to the bad guy, and more about the practitioner who's doing it.
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
17,733
7,860
62
Montgomery
✟307,261.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0