Increase in russian Propaganda About Ukraine, as Observed by X

The definition of Russian propaganda always seems to be whatever goes against Western Propaganda. To those who would support this war going on in perpetuity any analysis which contradicts extending the conflict (with no means of securing victory) is Russian propaganda. Ukraine has lost this war. Christians do not have to be inherently loyal to western liberalism or the Russian State.

sanderabeer said:

Who supports this war going on in perpetuity? I don't know of anyone who wants that. Rather, this seems to be an aspersion cast upon those who support Ukraine against Russian aggression and rooted in the belief that "Ukraine has lost this war." But, we can set this aside.

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Western supporters of Ukraine who can offer no viable plan for Ukraine to achieve it's victory conditions. Complete restoration of territory, Putin in Prison, Russia Punished and Crimea recaptured. Given Ukrainian manpower deficit and the inability of Ukraine to maintain it's defensive lines I am of the opinion that there is no plan other than keeping Ukraine fighting as a western proxy for as long as possible.

sanderabeer said:

Let's assume this assumption is correct and war stops today. What are the most ethical actions from this point? What should Ukraine do? What should Russia do? What should the world do?

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Ukraine should cede territory. Russia should not continue expanding. NATO and the West would be better off building defensive military infrastructure while respecting Russian security concerns.

sanderabeer said:

For a starter and with specific focus on Russia, should Russia entirely remove its military from Ukrainian territories? Keep in mind, I am not asking if they will. I am asking if they should.

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If Russia did that, it would not be in the strategic interests of Russia to do so. It may be in the strategic interests of the the West but not Russia.

sanderabeer said:

And I will be clear in stating that it is my position that Russia should leave. They have no valid reason for being there.

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Russia won't leave though and they do have valid reasons in a geopolitical sense in that a Ukraine in NATO has been considered by most Russians as a threat to them. NATO not being a purely defensive alliance and one which seeks to impose a sense of liberal democratic solidarity is a threat to Russia. The USA Neocons in particular have been aiming at Russia for at least a decade now, especially when Putin was elected and Russia went it's own way politically.

sanderabeer said:

I would go a step further. Christians should not be inherently loyal to either.

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I guess it depends. Why shouldn't a Russian Orthodox Christian be loyal to the Russian state? I'd maintain that loyalty to current liberal states for Christians goes against their own political interests in that western liberal states seek to undermine Christianity.

sanderabeer said:

I can see other options.

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Such as? I often ask this of people who want to see the war continue so that Ukraine might win, yet they don't provide the options.

sanderabeer said:

Why?

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Because they have lost significant ground and have far more to lose than Russia does. Coming to terms with the enemy and not having a complete surrender or enemy victory is preferable to having a total surrender.

sanderabeer said:

I agree, but I am not convinced they will stop.

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Realistically Russia can only stop. Russia could not advance even if it wanted to and I don't believe it does want to occupy all of Eastern Europe because it can't sustain that. The Soviet Union proved such an occupation as unfeasible in the long run.

sanderabeer said:

I agree generally, but what happens when Russian security concerns conflict with those of the West?

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Then they have to compromise figure out agreements. Russia made it clear that expansion of NATO eastwards was something they didn't like and yet the West insisted on pushing it eastwards. We ought have strategic empathy and not insist on this notion that Nations can determine their own foreign policy completely and independently of their neighbours. This has never been true.

sanderabeer said:

I didn't ask about "strategic interests." I asked about the ethical course of action. Given that you've already stated, "Ukraine should cede territory," is it safe to conclude that you think Russia has no obligation, ethical or otherwise, to leave Ukrainian territories if the war ended today?

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I guess it depends on what we consider Ukrainian territories and Russian territories. The Donbass republics were ethnically and culturally Russian, not Ukrainian and they had been treated poorly by the Ukrainian regime prior to and since the outbreak of violence in 2014. Take in mind Russia didn't originally want to annex these territories and only wanted greater autonomy for them. If one believes in democratic representation, a majority there are probably more aligned with Russia than Ukraine, even in Crimea. So i don't think morality comes into the equation here. It doesn't really come into the equation of any war.

sanderabeer said:

Is it a threat to Russia though? What's the basis for this idea?

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An alliance of hostile nations which are opposed to you ideologically on your doorstep is a threat. This is why the USA didn't let Cuba host nuclear Missiles.

sanderabeer said:

A Christian should not be loyal to a state. A Christian's allegiance is to God and God alone.

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So Christians are fundamentally anarchic? I disagree.