Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Ok so if I understand you , you think that the confession is forced and not sincere because of Matthew 7:21-23 . So even though the definition of the word, that you gave , doesn’t even hint of a forced non sincere confession that makes no difference because it doesn’t fit your tradition. Is this view correct?
While I work on that suppose you show me scripture which shows anyone in the lake of fire being pardoned and freed. You might want to read Luke 16:19-26.
Speaking of personal "tradition." Can you at least acknowledge that the word "gladly" does not occur in the definition of of exomologeo?
No I don’t acknowledge that, is it in the definition you give no, but there are others who disagree. Just because a group of people that have many years of history says so doesn’t make it true. Do you not think that the Pharisees of Jesus day didn’t have hundreds of years of what they thought were the correct way to view scripture, and were they correct? No they killed Jesus for going against their tradition. So just because of volume or longevity of a tradition doesn’t make it correct. But like I said even with the definition you gave of Exomologeo there is no hint of a false or forced confession, only what appears to be a sincere confession that Jesus is Lord, the very thing we all must do.
Yes. I think Paul sees Sin as an oppressive force. Being in Christ frees us from it. But not completely. While we're still alive we are a mixture of "flesh" and spirit. 1 Cor 15 describes a scenario in which the enemies, powers and authorities are defeated. With sin no longer oppressing us, we are freed from its effects. All end up in Christ. I think it's possible that this isn't quite universalism. While he doesn't say so, it's possible that there are some humans allied with the oppressive powers. But even if he doesn't mean absolutely all, the parallelism between the all who die because of Adam and the all who are saved by Christ is obvious.
Oh, here is what I think is happening I'm not permitted to draw a logical conclusion based on the scripture I quoted while the UR group ignores or explains away vss. such as Jeremiah 13:11-14, Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 1:24, 26, 28. etc. as applying only to this age not the next age, although that is never stated in scripture.
Like I said before, it’s a teaching that you are not ready for . That’s ok you will learn it if not in this age the next.
Look forward to reading your thoughts my friend. I am very familiar with the parable in Luke 16. I find it has no bearing on a discussion around the LOF, other than Hades along with death, are cast in to the LOF.
Thank you … there is much you have written above worthy of consideration. I will copy this and place in folder for reference at a later time.
The definition of exomologeo does not indicate if the confession is voluntary or forced. The context of the "confession" might indicate that. Let us look at Jeremiah 13:11-14.
I checked 4 critical commentaries on John. These are commentaries that regularly disagree with orthodox doctrine, and will happily list 20 different possible interpretations for a passage. None of them shows any question about John 3:16.
Very good brother. Thanks for having, as a good buddy would say, a look see …
Unsupported presumption by you. The text doesn’t even hint at a false or forced confession, that’s your opinion not supported by anything other than your traditional thinking.
Right how uninformed of me. Someone facing immediate death will not beg and plead, do and say anything to try to prevent their death. That is so silly. Mea maxima culpa.
My brother, if you are so inclined, of which four critical commentaries are you referring?
Nonsense. Most people faced with death as a punishment will be begging and pleading saying anything trying to prevent the punishment. It has nothing to do with "traditional thinking."
Dear brother … it is alarming to me that you are unable to process Scripture through anything other than the eyes of death with a view of punishment …
Unlike some I read ALL the scriptures not just a few out-of-context vss. which seem to support a specific POV. See e.g.
My friend, your first responsibility to the Scripture is always to honor the plain teaching of the text, within the context provided by the author. If you cannot agree with me on this point our discussions will always be simply another exercise in futility. I provided you with just that very thing. You cannot bring a single objection against the specific grammatical structure I provided, which is how I interpret the text.
The converse of a proposition is not necessarily true. What would be true is that anyone who is not a new creation is not in Christ. But as I keep pointing out, Paul is not writing propositions in symbolic logic. He is using rhetoric. Rhetoric can include things like hyperbole and other non literal expressions. The 2 Cor passage says nothing about non-Christians. Paul sees enemies, power and authorities as entrapping us in sin. It is certainly possible that he sees Christ freeing us now through faith, but that in the end Christ will finally defeat the enemies and free everyone.
