Is my mother in violation of God's Word?

"Honor your father and your mother so that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth." God's Instruction. Simple. Gentle. Pure. Wise. Contrary to all the world and contrary to most fellowships and most churches.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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Setting up the meeting is no problem.
If men are present, though, one of them should be leading it.

Von Davidicus said:

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman ~to teach or to assume authority~ over a man; she must be quiet.

My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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Hello Von Davidicus, I believe that the key to understanding this is found in 1 Timothy 2:12 (see the text in bold above). So, unless you believe that setting up a prayer meeting can somehow be equated with teaching and/or exercising authority over the men in her church, I think your mom is in the clear

Also, since the Apostle Paul speaks (elsewhere) about the proper way for both men ~AND~ woman to pray in church (that women should wear a head covering whenever they do, and that men should not), I think that your mom's efforts to get a prayer meeting going in her church is a great one

God bless you!!

--David

This is an issue about which Christians disagree. Some churches emphasize verses like the ones you've quoted. Others emphasize the examples of New Testament women like Priscilla, Phoebe, and Junia.

I note that in this specific instance, you want to stop your mother from gathering with other Christians to pray in church. I would think very hard before taking an action like that.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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If God has called her to prayer, I would not hinder His plans or put a stumbling block in her way.

~Do women have to remain silent in church? | GotQuestions.org

Von Davidicus said:

as also saith the law

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Can you find this in the old testament? Which law is being referred to here?

PloverWing said:

This is an issue about which Christians disagree.

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and sometimes I feel threads are started for this reason.

Von Davidicus said:

I haven't said anything to her. But I'm scared that she's angering God by taking this initiative.

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I think your mom needs to leave that cult. Anger God for praying sheesh.

I think your Mother is fine unless she tries that in Corinth, or any other of Paul's churches. It wasn't important enough to be covered by Jesus himself.

Von Davidicus said:

I'm scared that she's angering God by taking this initiative.

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I think that Laodicean60 has probably summed it up best Von..........

Laodicean60 said:

Anger God for praying ... sheesh.

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Years ago, the famous atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, had a weekly TV show, and on it one day she explained the principal reasons why she decided to become an atheist. She said that one of the reasons was because "even the Bible says, 'there is no God'"!

You know what, she's right about that, the Bible does say that (e.g. Psalm 14:1), in fact, it does so more than once. The question, the one that I would have asked her back then if I could have, is the very same one that I have for you now, "but is that what the Bible actually means when it says that"

Just like Madalyn's insistence that "there is no God" is a Biblical teaching, by focusing in on a single phrase of Paul's, that "women must remain silent in church", to exclusion of everything else that he taught in regard to this topic, you give a meaning to that phrase that the Apostle never meant it to have (because you are taking his words/the Holy Spirit's words, out-of-context).

Surely you cannot believe that either the Apostle Paul OR the Holy Spirit (who superintended the writing of all of the "God-breathed" Scriptures, including those that now bear Paul's name) FORGOT the instructions that they gave to women earlier in the Bible (e.g. 1 Corinthians 11:4-5) about the one thing that they needed to do (cover their heads) whenever they prayed or prophesied in church during services?

So, what all of this means is that your mother is doing nothing wrong (unless you've failed to tell us something about her prayer meeting, that is?). In fact, as "good" things go for a Christian to do, I'd say that this surely ranks right up there as one of the very best

Finally, if you still don't believe any of us, then by all means take it to the undershepherd that the Lord has assigned to you posthaste (your pastor, that is), and ask him to help you with it

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - the thing to also remember about your mother's "prayer meeting" is that the Bible has nothing to say about it (other than it should be done .. see 1 Thessalonians 5:17). ALL that Paul said in the Scriptures that you posited for us (and in others that you did not) concern ~church worship services~ and ~church order~ during those services (which the earliest church at Corinth clearly had a HUGE problem with), NOT a Wednesday or Thursday night prayer meeting (which has nothing to do with public worship services and/or church order, anymore than it has to do with teaching or authority in the church).

Do you really believe that God is "angry" because your mother is trying to get a group of her fellow congregants together to pray regularly to Him each week

Surely not .. e.g. Matthew 18:20.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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Those passages have nothing to do with women having a prayer meeting at church.

In 1 Corinthians 11 Paul specifically speaks of women praying and preaching. And in the Acts of the Apostles and in several places in Paul's letters we see examples of women as teachers and taking initiative in the Christian community.

In the last two thousand years of Christian history, women were often important voices. We have examples of important women both in the New Testament and outside of it. For example, while not mentioned in the New Testament, the ancient Church remembers Thekla, a missionary companion of Paul. The Church remembers the work of Mary Magdalene who, just like the apostles, went out and proclaimed the Gospel far and wide. We have examples of brave women, like St. Felicitas, a widow with seven sons who proclaimed the Gospel in the city of Rome until they were arrested, and refusing to deny Christ, received a martyr's crown. Women often took up vows of chastity and celibacy, just like men, to devote their lives to Christ, and they were often instrumental in many ways, their voices mattered, and many are remembered and cherished as saints whose lives all the Faithful are invited to emulate and honor.

The idea that women have nothing to offer, that they are supposed to be quiet, delicate house wives and nothing else, is a very modern idea that simply does not match the witness of Scripture or the history of the Christian Church.

With all this in mind, it is therefore a good idea to understand what those passages are talking about, contextually, within the larger picture of what's going on in those letters, and in the early Church more generally.

-CryptoLutheran

Von Davidicus said:

I haven't said anything to her. But I'm scared that she's angering God by taking this initiative.

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I have been told that "speaking" in church could mean holding distracting conversations while the service is going on.

And teaching "over" a man is the problem, versus >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21).

But God's word does say,

"teaching and admonishing one another" in Colossians 3:16.

We help "one another", in mutual submission "to one another" how our Father guides our relating . . . not one person controlling over another.

This is for leaders, too >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

However > how a humble woman does things can be quite different than how a woman who is a controller relates with people. The submissive woman acts in Jesus Christ's "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30). But the bossing and dictating one can burn out and get frustrated, not doing what Jesus has her doing in His love's rest.

So, instead of judging her by if she is outwardly influencing people to do something . . . is she known for being a submissive person? Is she feeding you a good example of being humble and all-loving and generously forgiving, and first praying for people instead of first criticizing and trying to change them?

Possibly, an efficient person . . . man or woman . . . will talk alone first with the pastor, and offer to support the church scheduling a meeting.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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No. It’s a prayer meeting.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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Good for your mother.

Von Davidicus said:

1st Corinthians 14:34-35 -- Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 -- A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

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My mother has set up a prayer meeting at the local church.

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Women are allowed to pray in church, Paul said so.
I Corinthians 11:2-16.
I believe that covering the head was a cultural thing, but Paul writes about when a woman prays.
In Acts 16 when Paul went to Philippi he went to the place of prayer, where he found several women gathered. In Acts 1:14, women prayed in the upper room alongside the disciples.

Good for your mother.

Von Davidicus said:

I haven't said anything to her. But I'm scared that she's angering God by taking this initiative.

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You really believe that God will be angry with someone who prays and calls others to pray also?

That's sad.