Are we born again by loving God and others? Please share scriptures and thoughts. Thank you.

Johan2222 · Feb 23, 2025

Guojing said:
Salvation is a gift, its not contingent to any work, only belief (Romans 4:5)

Your 2nd concept, like born again, is not relevant to the body of Christ.

When those who were chosen by God to receive grace before the foundation of the world hear the gospel, grace works in them to bring forth good works, for the election and work of God cannot be undone.

When those who did not receive grace before the foundation of the world hear the gospel, they cherry pick truth seeking to persuade themselves and all around them that they have received grace, even while their faith is dead.

These are those of whom it is written;

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;. . .

James 2:20 KJV
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

These are those of whom Jesus spoke, saying;

John 8:44 KJV
Ye are of your father the devil, . . .

soldier of light · Feb 23, 2025

Johan2222 said:
Looking back through your posts and the responses you receive from several believers, you clearly don’t want the fellowship of anyone who disagrees with you about anything, because you are not open to correction, even though you regularly misinterpret scripture and claim what is not true.

Although you often boast about your great faith, Jesus was constantly telling his disciples that they were men of little faith and so we can only bow down and worship you and I can see that is what you demand because you are never wrong about anything.

When people try to correct you and you say;

“You are only disagreeing with me because you don’t want fellowship with me and you want to cause divisions”.

Can you not see how utterly ridiculous that claim is?

People don’t say to themselves;

“You know, I don’t want fellowship with this guy so I will anger God and risk a big argument and risk being humiliated by every other Christian here by publicly correcting him on things that he says (that are actually correct anyway) because I don’t want fellowship with him and I want to cause divisions because I love arguing even when I’m arguing a point about which I know that I am wrong.”

Clearly, that is not the reasoning of a sound mind, so if you truly are human, either you are saying these things because you are a deceiver or you actually believe them and I don’t know which is a more perilous position to be in.

One of the things that God says that he has given to us is something that you say he has denied you, and I keep wondering when you are going to recognise that and ask yourself why he has tried to humble you in that way.

2 Timothy 1:7 KJV
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

For someone who God has humbled by denying you what he has promised to his children, you sure are pretty proud.

Many things that you claim are so ridiculous that I sometimes wonder if you are AI or a kid in kindergarten who hates Christianity so much that you come here just to try to wind people up.

Many things that you say actually appear to be very rational and biblically sound and then two seconds later you’re going off into the clouds claiming utter nonsense and you regularly say “I don’t understand please explain”, often to very simple concepts.

Even Paul said he didn’t do what he should be doing (Romans 7.15) and that is sin, (James 4.17) but you say that you don’t sin and you boast about it constantly.

Your boasting in itself is a sin, whether you are boasting about the truth or lies.

Even if you have more faith than everybody else who ever lived, you don’t say “I have great faith”, because that is boasting about what you have received from God, and God says;

1 Corinthians 4:7 KJV
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Have you not read?

2 Corinthians 10:17 KJV
But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

What about;

Luke 14:11 KJV
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Not only do you glory in what you have received, but when people call you on your boasting about it, you exalt yourself even further by saying;

“It is not boasting. I am simply telling the truth.”

Does this not mean anything to you?

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;

Why do you think that you try to justify your great faith and your sinless life to men?

Have you not understood?

Romans 14:22 RSV
The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God;. . .

Clearly you are a fairly new Christian who thinks you are so much wiser and more righteous than you are and as the saying goes, “pride comes before a fall”, and looking through your posts I can only warn you that you are headed for a big one.

And no, I did not write all this because I don’t want your fellowship, or because I want to cause divisions. I wrote it because I am a watchman under an obligation and I want to help you get out of the perilous situation that you are in before you fall down into a deep dark pit.

The last state of Luke 11 is not where you want to be.

Here is some good scripture for you to meditate on. I'm pretty sick when I get around people's religious and political complaints, divisions, fears, worries and strife. I need healing instead. Jesus said don't worry but to seek the kingdom and God will provide everything we need. That's what I live and preach. I don't preach corrupt politicians. Have a good day. I'm going to try my best to stay away. I need clean water and pasture not the filth of politics.

Ezekiel 34:4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad,

22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

Guojing · Feb 23, 2025

Johan2222 said:
When those who were chosen by God to receive grace before the foundation of the world hear the gospel, grace works in them to bring forth good works, for the election and work of God cannot be undone.

When those who did not receive grace before the foundation of the world hear the gospel, they cherry pick truth seeking to persuade themselves and all around them that they have received grace, even while their faith is dead.

These are those of whom it is written;

Luke 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;. . .

James 2:20 KJV
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

These are those of whom Jesus spoke, saying;

John 8:44 KJV
Ye are of your father the devil, . . .

Whenever you try to quote from the 4 gospel accounts, do remember Matthew 10:5 and Matthew 15:24.

Otherwise, you might as well be building an ark because of Genesis 6:14.

Guojing · Feb 23, 2025

1Tonne said:
Thank you for answering. So, you believe that someone can continue in serial murder and continual rape and as long as they believe, they are saved.
1. Romans 6:6-7 – We Are No Longer Slaves to Sin
“We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.”
This proves: If you are truly saved, sin no longer rules over you.

2. Galatians 5:19-21 – Those Who Practice Sin Will Not Inherit the Kingdom
“Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
This proves: A lifestyle of unrepentant sin means someone is not saved.

3. Hebrews 10:26-27 – Willful Sin Leads to Judgment
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the adversaries.”
This proves: If someone knows the truth but continues in sin, they face judgment, not salvation.

4. 2 Peter 2:20-22 – Returning to Sin is Like a Dog Returning to Vomit
“For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.”
This proves: Those who go back to sin after knowing Christ are in a worse state than before.

5. There are many more verses too.

"The Bible repeatedly teaches that true believers do not continue in sin. Romans 6:6-7 says we are set free from sin, Galatians 5:19-21 says sinners will not inherit the kingdom, Hebrews 10:26 warns of judgment for willful sin, and 2 Peter 2:20 says returning to sin is worse than never believing. If someone claims to believe but continues in sin, how do you explain these verses?"

Yes, of course I will not encourage a believer to rape and murder, no one would.

The point is still, salvation is a gift, if you want to rape and murder after you are sure of your salvation, you will regret

both on this life on earth, where you will be hurting people and be a bad testimony.
and in heaven when you will realize that you will have no rewards in heaven.

1Tonne · Feb 23, 2025

Guojing said:
Yes, of course I will not encourage a believer to rape and murder, no one would.

The point is still, salvation is a gift, if you want to rape and murder after you are sure of your salvation, you will regret

both on this life on earth, where you will be hurting people and be a bad testimony.

and in heaven when you will realize that you will have no rewards in heaven.

But you still believe that a habitual rapist and murdered will make it to heaven. That is a belief that the bible goes against.
Read these in this order as it may make more sense:
I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." John 10:14:15
Jesus saves those he knows. He does not save those that he does not know.

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7 Jesus knows those who are in the light and He saves them. There is not one verse in the bible that says that Jesus knows those who are in the darkness, or those who believe and are still in their sins. So, He does not know them and He does not save them.

Then Matt 7:22-23 shows that those whom He does not know will be cast away from Him because they continued in sin.
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Guojing · Feb 23, 2025

1Tonne said:
But you still believe that a habitual rapist and murdered will make it to heaven. That is a belief that the bible goes against.
Read these in this order as it may make more sense:
I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." John 10:14:15
Jesus saves those he knows. He does not save those that he does not know.

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7 Jesus knows those who are in the light and He saves them. There is not one verse in the bible that says that Jesus knows those who are in the darkness, or those who believe and are still in their sins. So, He does not know them and He does not save them.

Then Matt 7:22-23 shows that those whom He does not know will be cast away from Him because they continued in sin.
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Salvation was not a free gift under the gospel of the kingdom. I have said to you before.

Jesus and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom in his first coming.

1Tonne · Feb 23, 2025

Guojing said:
Salvation was not a free gift under the gospel of the kingdom. I have said to you before.

Jesus and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom in his first coming.

So, I am pretty much at the point of giving up. You win regarding the battle for who can stay on this thread the longest. I cannot show you something when your eyes are closed.

My guess is that you do not have a church you attend regularly. Is this correct?

Guojing · Feb 23, 2025

1Tonne said:
So, I am pretty much at the point of giving up. You win regarding the battle for who can stay on this thread the longest. I cannot show you something when your eyes are closed.

My guess is that you do not have a church you attend regularly. Is this correct?

Don't think of discussion forum as a way to change another person's doctrine.

If you are able to see it as more to understand why others hold the doctrine they hold, without judging them, then your time spent in the forums will be more enjoyable.

1Tonne · Feb 23, 2025

Guojing said:
Don't think of discussion forum as a way to change another person's doctrine.

I used scripture but sometimes people have their own views that are set even when they have been proven wrong. Sadly, these people will not see the truth unless God unveils their eyes.

Guojing said:
If you are able to see it as more to understand why others hold the doctrine they hold,

I think that I have studied hyper-dispensationalism a lot. This was done with an open mind in the light that I could always be wrong. But, when scripture after scripture is against your doctrine, then there is more than enough proof to show that it is wrong.
If many are pointing out that you have a bad understanding, then you should be evaluating what you believe. This is where I think that you go wrong and also why I asked what church you go to. Those who do not regularly attend a good church often go down bad doctrinal tangents as they only have themselves to test doctrine against.
So, what church do you regularly go to?

Aaron112 · Feb 23, 2025

Guojing said:
If you are able to see it as more to understand why others hold the doctrine they hold, without judging them, then your time spent in the forums will be more enjoyable.

ie without truth , without redeeming power of Jesus Blood, without repentance,,,,,, "FEEL GOOD" and be condemned?!

Aaron112 · Feb 23, 2025

1Tonne said:
Sadly, these people will not see the truth unless God unveils their eyes.

Extreme grief daily since "these people" inncludes everyone on earth, devastating even church goers.

1Tonne · Feb 24, 2025

Aaron112 said:
Extreme grief daily since "these people" inncludes everyone on earth, devastating even church goers.

This is why I have continued so long on this thread. It is in the hope that Guojing would see the error in his understanding and that he would see the truth and run to it. I have given him proof after proof but sadly, he cannot see it. This amazes me because, with everything I have explained, it should be simple to see.
So, Guojing, please read back through my posts, you will see plenty of evidence that your doctrine has major flaws.

I also continued to post on here because I do not like false gospels being spread. But I think that I have proved my point time and time again and so if anyone were to read Guojings comments here, they would see the big flaws.

Aaron112 · Feb 24, 2025

1Tonne said:
I have given him proof after proof but sadly, he cannot see it. This amazes me because, with everything I have explained, it should be simple to see.

serious devastating consequences for much of the world , including members and visitors to forum, including members of cults , huge ecumenical cults.. crowd pleasing cults.... sadly immune here by the rules, but thankful to God if they seek truth, if they seek Jesus , He Might Save Them too.

Guojing · Feb 24, 2025

1Tonne said:
I used scripture but sometimes people have their own views that are set even when they have been proven wrong. Sadly, these people will not see the truth unless God unveils their eyes.

Well, see it this way, from my perspective, that applies to you as well.

We are always the protagonist, from our own point of view

Guojing · Feb 24, 2025

1Tonne said:
This is why I have continued so long on this thread. It is in the hope that Guojing would see the error in his understanding and that he would see the truth and run to it. I have given him proof after proof but sadly, he cannot see it. This amazes me because, with everything I have explained, it should be simple to see.
So, Guojing, please read back through my posts, you will see plenty of evidence that your doctrine has major flaws.

I also continued to post on here because I do not like false gospels being spread. But I think that I have proved my point time and time again and so if anyone were to read Guojings comments here, they would see the big flaws.

Don't you realize that from my point of view, all these apply to you as well?

I just choose not to adopt the superior attitude like what you are doing now, that I am right and you are wrong.

Instead, I say "agree to disagree", and "if you are convinced by that kind of reasoning, so be it".

1Tonne · Feb 24, 2025

Guojing said:
Don't you realize that from my point of view, all these apply to you as well?

I just choose not to adopt the superior attitude like what you are doing now, that I am right and you are wrong.

Instead, I say "agree to disagree", and "if you are convinced by that kind of reasoning, so be it".

So, what church do you go to regularly?

Aaron112 · Feb 24, 2025

Guojing said:
Instead, I say "agree to disagree"

An earmark for those who continue in very sinful errors. i.e. not good for you. Rather, a very strong indicator that your errors are deep and that sin in not repented of.
Likely controlled, directed, by whatever/whoever is "teaching" serious errors to you but you trust them, for now,

Aaron112 · Feb 24, 2025

Guojing said:
Well, see it this way, from my perspective, that applies to you as well.

We are always the protagonist, from our own point of view

Seriously bad news also that this same tactic is used by jsuits deceiving millions or more daily. They pretend to be something they are not, and switch tactics ad lib, whenever it seems useful to them and the cause of babylon.

Johan2222 · Feb 24, 2025

1Tonne said:
So, what church do you go to regularly?

Hot is better than lukewarm but applying heat wisely is the gift of God, Ecclesiastes 12.11, yet if one is filthy, let them be filthy still.

I hope you will agree that Titus applied several posts ago and that his tenth of the third was appropriate long before you got here.

Disputes do not clarify anything to those of the unction and the rest are stumbled by many words, tossed about by the waves, unable to discern truth stirred up by the great confusion.

Questions to the unwise when governed to only those with obvious answers revealing error are more able to elicit clarity for the hearers, for it is only them who can benefit by your asking.

A wolf given a platform will use it to mislead far more then you will enlighten by seeking to expose them, for in many words of men, many are stumbled

“Where do you go to church”, for example, knowing the unction to some and the need of teachers to others, let alone the issues very few consider, (for we dare not make ourselves of the number) or the faith and wisdom of some chosen of God who had nowhere to call home.

When the body walked outside the exhortation by the householder to every scribe instructed unto the kingdom of heaven, error was magnified exceedingly as the dogs came to devour it and why should we have expected otherwise?

If you tell a man to give all of his possessions to anyone who asks for them, will he obey you? Is it not better that some never know the way of righteousness, knowing the mire that awaits them and the filth that they will drag into the temple?

Remember how faith comes and who shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven and who went out that they might be made manifest, especially knowing that our father in secret made all things known in a mystery.

Contention with a wolf in all the events does not edify or make others fear as the rod ordered for his back.

1Tonne · Feb 24, 2025

Johan2222 said:
Hot is better than lukewarm but applying heat wisely is the gift of God, Ecclesiastes 12.11, yet if one is filthy, let them be filthy still.

I hope you will agree that Titus applied several posts ago and that his tenth of the third was appropriate long before you got here.

Disputes do not clarify anything to those of the unction and the rest are stumbled by many words, tossed about by the waves, unable to discern truth stirred up by the great confusion.

Questions to the unwise when governed to only those with obvious answers revealing error are more able to elicit clarity for the hearers, for it is only them who can benefit by your asking.

A wolf given a platform will use it to mislead far more then you will enlighten by seeking to expose them, for in many words of men, many are stumbled

“Where do you go to church”, for example, knowing the unction to some and the need of teachers to others, let alone the issues very few consider, (for we dare not make ourselves of the number) or the faith and wisdom of some chosen of God who had nowhere to call home.

When the body walked outside the exhortation by the householder to every scribe instructed unto the kingdom of heaven, error was magnified exceedingly as the dogs came to devour it and why should we have expected otherwise?

If you tell a man to give all of his possessions to anyone who asks for them, will he obey you? Is it not better that some never know the way of righteousness, knowing the mire that awaits them and the filth that they will drag into the temple?

Remember how faith comes and who shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven and who went out that they might be made manifest, especially knowing that our father in secret made all things known in a mystery.

Contention with a wolf in all the events does not edify or make others fear as the rod ordered for his back.

Sorry. A lot of the wording that you have said, I do not understand but I think the overall thing you are saying is that I am wasting my time. And you may be right. But many people I speak to have changed. This weekend I went to a market day, and I spoke to a lot of people. Some did not change but others did. I spoke to many atheists, and they were very strong in their beliefs. But, 6 of them had a change of mind and said that there must be a creator, and all of them were left thinking about the God of the bible. Not another God. I also had 11 unbelievers decide to honour God. So, speaking to those with shutters on their eyes can still be good. God just needs to take the shutters off so that they can see. I persevere for as long as possible or until a person raises their voice and starts to abuse my God. Then I let them go. (Proverbs 26:4)
I asked Guojing what church he went to as it can show that he may be misguided. We can all go on little tangents and if not kept in check by others, this can go really bad.

Note:
When speaking with atheists, I present scientific reasoning to demonstrate that just as a builder constructs a building and a painter creates a painting, a Creator must have created creation. No one would believe me if I claimed that a building randomly assembled itself. Likewise, it is illogical to say that creation came together by chance. A building clearly shows order and design, and even something as simple as a leaf exhibits intricate structures beyond human capability. If a building, which is man-made, requires a designer, how much more does a leaf, which is far more complex? If it is foolish to say that a building formed itself, then it is even more foolish to say that creation made itself.
At this point, many atheists begin to acknowledge the possibility of a Creator—but then the question arises: Who is He?
I then show them evidence from prophecy. Imagine if I wrote over 300 predictions in a book and every single one came true with precise accuracy. People would recognize that something divine was at work. Something amazing. This is exactly what the Bible has—over 300 Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in the New Testament. No other book, not even the Quran, has this level of prophetic accuracy. The Bible foretold specific details about Jesus: that He would be born in Bethlehem, be called a Nazarene (because He lived in Nazareth), be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, have His garments divided among others, and suffer with nail-pierced hands and feet.
What other book can foretell the future with such precision? None. The Bible is divine because God used men to write it. It is the word of God.
When speaking to atheists, this reasoning will often change their thinking, and they will be amazed.

Are we born again by loving God and others? Please share scriptures and thoughts. Thank you.

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