Which Christian Denomination Do We Believe?

timothyu said:

Along with aligning with governmental institutions built upon the self serving ways of man. Jesus' 'church' was not built upon, but actually was truth from the Father. That truth was His Gospel of the Kingdom, a Kingdom rejected when any church re-aligns itself with the kingdoms of the world instead or becomes one itself. It has then reverted back to the wisdom of man.

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Yes so Christ church should be in conflict with the world ie secular ideologies like humanism, moral relativism, Woke and Trans ideology.

In fact if we look at history we can see a gradual abandoning of Christs church with growing secularism. Even as recent as mid 20th century there was still a high % of Christain belief and this was reflected in social norms and Christainity was acepted in the public square and in fact promoted.

But gradually after the cultural revolutions of the 60s belief has dwindled and around the 90s and especially post 2000 God was completely rejected from the public square. It is during this time that secularism took over secular norms and Christainity was pushed to the fringes if not hated.

Which shows clearly that now we have an anti Christain ideology dominating society. That in itself tells us that standing on Christs truths will be in conflict and hated.

So if the church is being true to Christs words and teachings then it should be under attack. It should be hated. If it is liked and praised by secular society then it displays bad fruit of the spirit and is not of Christ. Its as simple as that.

In fact I believe a time is coming where Christains will be called to put their faith on the line. People have become complacent and comfortable in the world. But as Christs truth becomes more in conflict with secular ideology and as it is secular ideology that now dictates then we should see more and more conflcit and persecution of Christains.

stevevw said:

So if the church is being true to Christs words and teachings then it should be under attack.

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As the Orthodox Church has been for centuries.

stevevw said:

Yes so Christ church should be in conflict with the world ie secular ideologies like humanism, moral relativism, Woke and Trans ideology.

In fact if we look at history we can see a gradual abandoning of Christs church with growing secularism. Even as recent as mid 20th century there was still a high % of Christain belief and this was reflected in social norms and Christainity was acepted in the public square and in fact promoted.

But gradually after the cultural revolutions of the 60s belief has dwindled and around the 90s and especially post 2000 God was completely rejected from the public square. It is during this time that secularism took over secular norms and Christainity was pushed to the fringes if not hated.

Which shows clearly that now we have an anti Christain ideology dominating society. That in itself tells us that standing on Christs truths will be in conflict and hated.

So if the church is being true to Christs words and teachings then it should be under attack. It should be hated. If it is liked and praised by secular society then it displays bad fruit of the spirit and is not of Christ. Its as simple as that.

In fact I believe a time is coming where Christains will be called to put their faith on the line. People have become complacent and comfortable in the world. But as Christs truth becomes more in conflict with secular ideology and as it is secular ideology that now dictates then we should see more and more conflcit and persecution of Christains.

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a new "postwar" religion took over after WW2, mixed with Christianity but ultimately eclipsing it. Good and Evil were gradually separated from the Bible, and reframed around one's commitment to universal liberalism and the "Open Society"...

this postwar religion is being rapidly shaken off as we speak.

you are certainly correct that Christians should be hated by an anti-Christian society (and boy have they been),

however for a society that asserts a Christian order, I believe Christians (and even non-Christians who respect that order) may live in relative peace.

the crux is that Christians have to be willing to drive out the evildoer. for example, a producer/distributer of p*rnography can have no place in a Christian society. likewise, books promoting transgenderism or homosexuality or any other degeneracy should be banned from the public.

Christians have to rediscover their spines. They've been trained (and lied to) by postwar religion that they are not allowed to assert themselves like this.

stevevw said:

In fact if we look at history we can see a gradual abandoning of Christs church with growing secularism.

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We saw that 1700 years ago when the institution aligned with a secular empire for the same purposes. The thing is, then both used God for its purposes. Today secular society sees no need to use the institutional church or God for that matter. It does however fear the Kingdom they've never heard of (they can only think instead of change in human terms such as human rebellion) as that Kingdom represents the opposite of what our secular world stands for. It doesn't know about the Kingdom of God coming to take their authourity over each other away because the teachings have practically vanished. Of course neither does a majority of Christians know this either. They are more focused on meeting grandma in Heaven and what's in it for them, than listening to Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom still cried in the wilderness and teaching what's in it for God.

stevevw said:

Which shows clearly that now we have an anti Christain ideology dominating society.

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Yes, as it has since the Garden. Self interest over servitude to each other.

stevevw said:

So if the church is being true to Christs words and teachings then it should be under attack.

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Not the institution, but rather truth from God should be under attack, as it always has been, but it ebbs and flows. If the instituion doesn't focus on the Kingdom of God and His will over ours, then there is no truth in it.

stevevw said:

In fact I believe a time is coming where Christains will be called to put their faith on the line.

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This be true. Their faith in God's truth, but not in their religion.

lifepsyop said:

a new "postwar" religion took over after WW2, mixed with Christianity but ultimately eclipsing it. Good and Evil were gradually separated from the Bible, and reframed around one's commitment to universal liberalism and the "Open Society"...

this postwar religion is being rapidly shaken off as we speak.

you are certainly correct that Christians should be hated by an anti-Christian society (and boy have they been),

however for a society that asserts a Christian order, I believe Christians (and even non-Christians who respect that order) may live in relative peace.

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Yes if they respect that order. But that respect has depleated over time. As mentioned we went from a Christain worldview in the public square to a secular one in a fairly short time. Especially post 2000 when secular ideologies began to be pushed.

But there was a transitional period when liberalism began to take over. First society became more plural and the idea was there there was not single truth but many. Christainity was tolerated as one of those alternatives and respected. Though there was a growing indifference to Christainity.

But post 2000 as secular ideologies took over they became more dogmatic and became more like a religion. Thus it now conflicted with opposing beliefs like Christainity. So the relativism of postmodernism suddenly became absolute in its secular beliefs.

This was inevitable as humans cannot live without morality and meaning. It just meant secular ideological beliefs took over the mantle of belief for society pushing Christianity to the fringes.

lifepsyop said:

the crux is that Christians have to be willing to drive out the evildoer. for example, a producer/distributer of p*rnography can have no place in a Christian society. likewise, books promoting transgenderism or homosexuality or any other degeneracy should be banned from the public.

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Yes and many parents are standing up against school boards who are allowing such books. But I think outside this its hard as the belief is consenting adults have a right to porn. I think the internet and smart phones opened the flood gates. I never really got this as up until then porn was restricted to specific outlets and not allowed in the mainstream. Certainly not for under 18s.

But it seemed the authorities were willing to allow it via smart phones for under 18's and freely available to everyone else. It was a massive shift in attitudes. So I don't think it can be stopped. We can certainly keep pointing out the harm done and that we should restriict porn for minors.

But I think its more fundemental than that. Its the different worldviews in morality where subjective and relative morality has increased and people don't see porn as being bad in the first place. This goes back to the sexual revolution and the liberation of sex outside marriage.

Now many trans and gender ideologues believe that even children and young people are capable of having a sexual identity. Thats why I think more explicit sex education has crept into schools. If you notice trans and gay attitudes to sex are very liberal.

lifepsyop said:

Christians have to rediscover their spines. They've been trained (and lied to) by postwar religion that they are not allowed to assert themselves like this.

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You know a lot of this is common sense. So its not just standing on Christain values but instincts in protection kids and the innocent. But also the vast amount of science and evidence that it causes harm. One of the biggest problems with youth is unreal expectations of sex and relationships. This is causing massive emotional and mental problems.

But also the many unplanned pregnacies and the breakdowns in relationships and families.

The problem is its not just about facts and truth as this is a spiritual battle and belief. You cannot convince people to change their beliefs about how the world is and should be ordered. But I agree you also cannot just allow this ideology to harm people especially kids and youth.

timothyu said:

We saw that 1700 years ago when the institution aligned with a secular empire for the same purposes. The thing is, then both used God for its purposes. Today secular society sees no need to use the institutional church or God for that matter. It does however fear the Kingdom they've never heard of (they can only think instead of change in human terms such as human rebellion) as that Kingdom represents the opposite of what our secular world stands for. It doesn't know about the Kingdom of God coming to take their authourity over each other away because the teachings have practically vanished.

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Maybe more the case that God has not vanished but rather has been replaced. I think it was more the case that secular society favored ideologies and metaphyical beliefs that had no God. Or more specifically no Christ as they do tolerate all sorts of pagan and spiritual worship. But the mention of the one true God or Christ is specificlaly rejected. Even more than Islam strangly enough.

timothyu said:

Of course neither does a majority of Christians know this either. They are more focused on meeting grandma in Heaven and what's in it for them, than listening to Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom still cried in the wilderness and teaching what's in it for God.

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I think its more that some Christains and maybe many have been absorbed by modern life and all its creature comforts. Its easy to get use to and then it takes over. Theres more distractions today. Christ said its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven.

The standard of living and average wealth has risen dramatically. Though we are having periods of economic downturn. But there is a lot more wealth and materialism today. Many Christains seem to think its ok to build wealth and a nestegg putting everything into the worlds basket and not storing up riches in heaven,

I reckon is even 10% but hopefull 50% of Christains sacrificed as Christ said themselves and gave more time, money and resources we could change the world and this would shine as a real example of putting CHrist into reality.

I hate it when I see these wealthy churches and the Catholics are guilty of this as well that are not making themselves poor and sharing that wealth and resources to help others.

timothyu said:

Yes, as it has since the Garden. Self interest over servitude to each other.

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Yes but I think just like before the flood we are heading into the same territory. As a society and nation we have now rejected God. So anti God and sin is growing.

Though this has alwys been the same I don't think it has been like this for a long time. Its usually at the end of an Empire where they reject God and lose their moral compass. We then begin to see the hallmarks of a empire collapsing which I think we are heading into now.

timothyu said:

Not the institution, but rather truth from God should be under attack, as it always has been, but it ebbs and flows. If the instituion doesn't focus on the Kingdom of God and His will over ours, then there is no truth in it.

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THough the individual and church is the physical representation of those attacks. Its like shoot the messager. Simply speaking those truths will cause people to get triggered and attacked the source from which those truths are coming. Thats why we see fire attacks on churches and individuals being sacked or attacked on social media for simply expressing their belief.

timothyu said:

This be true. Their faith in God's truth, but not in their religion.

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Yes but also remember that the church will be attacked as well for standing up for Gods truth and remaining firm. This can even come from other Christain denominations who claim that they know better.

The idea is if you undermine the church then you undermine God. Discredit the church and you discredit God. Well in the eyes of those who oppose God anyway.

stevevw said:

Thats why we see fire attacks on churches and individuals being sacked or attacked on social media for simply expressing their belief.

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Right! They are attacking the wrong thing and neither side knows it.

stevevw said:

Discredit the church and you discredit God.

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yes, His church is His truth, not some institution

timothyu said:

Right! They are attacking the wrong thing and neither side knows it.

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I am not sure what you mean.

timothyu said:

yes, His church is His truth, not some institution

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I agree, but I mean't that people will attack the church, the building itself as it represents Christs truth. Though I agree that attacking a church is not in itself representation that the teachings are the truth. Some attack Mosques and other representations of religion especially Synagogues at the moment.

Which shows that there is a spiritual battle going on for what is the true God and Christ makes a spercific claim that it is only through Him that we can know God.

I think as you say fundementally its Christs truth that is most resisted and hated as it claims authority over all other so called truths or ways to know God or gods.

stevevw said:

I think as you say fundementally its Christs truth that is most resisted and hated as it claims authority over all other so called truths or ways to know God or gods.

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Authourity yes, and that removes control of man over fellow man, something our world is built upon and not to keen to give up.

Merlin475 said:

The fruit meaning how the Christians behave?

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Yes, exactly.
Their behavior is a direct result of the sect they walk in.

Merlin475 said:

I have heard many different Christian denominations say this one thing, "Our denomination sticks to the Bible the closest and teaches it more accurately too."

This has been said by Catholics, by Non-Denominational, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutherans. We can't all be right, right? There are too many fundamental differences between all of them combined for that to be the case.

Every Christian is going to say their denomination adheres to the Bible best, but how do we know for sure?
What do we look for in a church and the way it functions to see if it truly preaches what the Bible says?

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I believe who ever is baptized in God's Holy Spirit are children of God, regardless of what they Church is named.

The truth lies in God's Holy Spirit.

stevevw said:

Yes if they respect that order. But that respect has depleated over time. As mentioned we went from a Christain worldview in the public square to a secular one in a fairly short time. Especially post 2000 when secular ideologies began to be pushed.

But there was a transitional period when liberalism began to take over. First society became more plural and the idea was there there was not single truth but many. Christainity was tolerated as one of those alternatives and respected. Though there was a growing indifference to Christainity.

But post 2000 as secular ideologies took over they became more dogmatic and became more like a religion. Thus it now conflicted with opposing beliefs like Christainity. So the relativism of postmodernism suddenly became absolute in its secular beliefs.

This was inevitable as humans cannot live without morality and meaning. It just meant secular ideological beliefs took over the mantle of belief for society pushing Christianity to the fringes.

Yes and many parents are standing up against school boards who are allowing such books. But I think outside this its hard as the belief is consenting adults have a right to porn. I think the internet and smart phones opened the flood gates. I never really got this as up until then porn was restricted to specific outlets and not allowed in the mainstream. Certainly not for under 18s.

But it seemed the authorities were willing to allow it via smart phones for under 18's and freely available to everyone else. It was a massive shift in attitudes. So I don't think it can be stopped. We can certainly keep pointing out the harm done and that we should restriict porn for minors.

But I think its more fundemental than that. Its the different worldviews in morality where subjective and relative morality has increased and people don't see porn as being bad in the first place. This goes back to the sexual revolution and the liberation of sex outside marriage.

Now many trans and gender ideologues believe that even children and young people are capable of having a sexual identity. Thats why I think more explicit sex education has crept into schools. If you notice trans and gay attitudes to sex are very liberal.

You know a lot of this is common sense. So its not just standing on Christain values but instincts in protection kids and the innocent. But also the vast amount of science and evidence that it causes harm. One of the biggest problems with youth is unreal expectations of sex and relationships. This is causing massive emotional and mental problems.

But also the many unplanned pregnacies and the breakdowns in relationships and families.

The problem is its not just about facts and truth as this is a spiritual battle and belief. You cannot convince people to change their beliefs about how the world is and should be ordered. But I agree you also cannot just allow this ideology to harm people especially kids and youth.

Click to expand...

essentially, the 20th century must be repealed.

timothyu said:

Authourity yes, and that removes control of man over fellow man, something our world is built upon and not to keen to give up.

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Yes in Christ there is giving up authority to Him which is al;ien to rights based politics. Yet at the same time Christ shows that He also comes as an obedient Son and sacrificing Himself for us being fallible humans. Its a profound paradox that modern day secular ideology cannot get their head around as it goes against the rebellious 'self' wanting to be first and the god.

lifepsyop said:

essentially, the 20th century must be repealed.

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Wow thats a big claim. I know the 20th century is said to be the bloodiest. But I think at the same time we got wiser and smarter. We have improved the standard of living and then made it bad again lol.

We have seen the best and the worst in the 20th century. I would think as time has gone by we have come closer to the truth with a better understanding. Not just in science and medicine but in ethics.

For example we came up with 'Rule of law'. Thats an incredible concept to realise and then make an unwritten law that governs a free society. It is through our lived experiences and time that we can come to know what works and what doesn't.

In some ways though we are more evil in modern times because we are suppose to know better. This seems to be the human condition. e have a good and evil side. Look at antisemetism. We know its devastating results from WW2 and thats why we made human rights. Yet here we are in 2025 with antisemetism rising its ugly head again.

David Lamb said:

Not nit-picking, but isn't the Greek word "ekklesia" rather than "ekklhsia"?

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Unfortunately, when transliterating the Greek, English users transliterate
both epsilon and eta into "e". This leaves an ambiguous transliteration, and
means that someone who is trying to look up the original Greek word in the
standard New Testament Koine Greek lexicon, difficult.

I use "h" to transliterate eta. (Chop the riser bar off, and it looks like an eta.)
This is a (sorta) unique mapping of this Greek letter, onto the standard ASCII
English keyboard. (This may irritate English readers, who don't know the spelling
of the original Greek word, but it indicates an eta, rather than an epsilon. Although "h"
is also used to indicate hard breathing, no Greek reader would ever expect to see a hard
breathing mark in the middle of a Greek word. Sorry that this is not the habit of people
who use the word "ekklesia" in the English, even though the transliteration
is ambiguous.)

The "double" sound Greek letters, are often sounded out with 2 English
letters. And the reader of the English, must know to crunch multiple letters together,
to form the Greek word. Such as "psuxh". Here, "ps" is psi, and "x" stands for chi.

Formally, "ekklesia" is NOT the Greek word.

Unfortunately, most North American Christians do not know enough about New Testament
Greek, to even ask this question...

Stephen3141 said:

Unfortunately, when transliterating the Greek, English users transliterate
both epsilon and eta into "e". This leaves an ambiguous transliteration, and
means that someone who is trying to look up the original Greek word in the
standard New Testament Koine Greek lexicon, difficult.

I use "h" to transliterate eta. (Chop the riser bar off, and it looks like an eta.)
This is a (sorta) unique mapping of this Greek letter, onto the standard ASCII
English keyboard. (This may irritate English readers, who don't know the spelling
of the original Greek word, but it indicates an eta, rather than an epsilon. Although "h"
is also used to indicate hard breathing, no Greek reader would ever expect to see a hard
breathing mark in the middle of a Greek word. Sorry that this is not the habit of people
who use the word "ekklesia" in the English, even though the transliteration
is ambiguous.)

The "double" sound Greek letters, are often sounded out with 2 English
letters. And the reader of the English, must know to crunch multiple letters together,
to form the Greek word. Such as "psuxh". Here, "ps" is psi, and "x" stands for chi.

Formally, "ekklesia" is NOT the Greek word.

Unfortunately, most North American Christians do not know enough about New Testament
Greek, to even ask this question...

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Thank you for explaining. I imagine there will be some confusion whichever way it is transliterated.

Denomination

I Demon nation

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Matthew 13:52 KJV
[52] , , , Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

1 John 2:19 KJV
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

To be made manifest is to be made known. To be made known to who do you think John was talking about?

Obviously not to the church because we are known by our own.

If your master gave you the following commandment.

Matthew 5:42 NKJV
Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

Would you build a large building on the street corner and announce to the world that you were the servant of that master and you were obedient to his commandments unless you had already sat down and counted the cost and were prepared to give everything away.

Luke 14:28 ASV
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, doth not first sit down and count the cost, whether he have wherewith to complete it?

Would you spend money on building a large building knowing that someone might ask you for it?

Did Christ build a large building on the street corner?

Are we instructed to walk as Christ, suffering without the gate?

Hebrews 13:13 KJV

Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

2 Corinthians 10:12 KJV
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Do you know who the number are?

Acts 4:4 KJV
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Romans 14:22 NKJV
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

You will say to me that if these things be so, vast multitudes today walk in foolishness and are unable to reconcile these things with the great commission.

Did our master not say likewise?

Luke 18:8 KJV
. . . Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Do you think he asked that question because he thought that the answer was “yes a great multitude?”

How were we instructed to follow the Great commission?

Luke 10:3-7 KJV
Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. [4] Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. [5] And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. [6] And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. [7] And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

But how have we changed the instructions?

Zechariah 5:5-8 KJV
Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. [6] And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. [7] And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. [8] And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

“This is their resemblance through all the earth”

1 Corinthians 2:13-16 KJV
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Matthew 13:10-12 KJV
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? [11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. [12] For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

2 Timothy 2:12 KJV
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him : if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Luke 14:33 KJV
[33] So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Proverbs 1:32-33 KJV
[32] For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Merlin475 said:

I have heard many different Christian denominations say this one thing, "Our denomination sticks to the Bible the closest and teaches it more accurately too."

This has been said by Catholics, by Non-Denominational, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutherans. We can't all be right, right? There are too many fundamental differences between all of them combined for that to be the case.

Every Christian is going to say their denomination adheres to the Bible best, but how do we know for sure?
What do we look for in a church and the way it functions to see if it truly preaches what the Bible says?

Click to expand...

Look for a church like in acts chapter 4 and 2 Corinthians chapter 8. Look for one who loves God not money, and loves the kingdom of Jesus not America. This church will teach against lust for wealth and possessions. It will teach against fornication. It will teach against vanity and teach about inner beauty that pleases God. It will teach love for God and people. It will not pollute the gospel with worldly politics. In my opinion.