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Trump broke the trade agreement. Therefore, America cannot be trusted on an international level.

Vambram

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eclipsenow

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Because - fox is now a news source and not a propaganda outlet? :sweatsmile:

From what I have gathered at other sources - this is only temporary. Trump has loved the idea of tariffs for years before his first term. But the way he talks about it being a 'tax' on China - I wonder if the guy even understands what a tariff is and how it works?

Has he read a book in his adult life?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Gregory Thompson

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A thought I've been having is why breaking a trade agreement matters.

Some people may have not had a similar lesson in the past, but people in the old days when they set up a trade agreement would go through all the steps Abraham did to set it up. One of the conditions was stepping through entrails of cut up beasts to signify what would happen to the person who violated the agreement. This is what we call a "covenant" in the same way where someone in a marriage relationship consistently threatens to divorce if things don't change, it's the same between nations. Sure, you might get short term results ... but trust is damaged.

And without trust it is impossible to do business ... or please God.
 
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I'm glad you're lifting up Hallelujahs regardless of the reason.
The Hallelujah’s are for the cleaning out of the liberal rot in our government. It appears to me many countries in Europe could benefit from the same type of disinfectant.
 

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And without trust it is impossible to do business ... or please God.
It is my belief and that of many others that God placed Trump where he now is to bring this government back to sanity.
 

hedrick

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Despite our efforts prior, Trump Trolled Canada since the New Year, so I'll give it a month to see how it pans out. Thanks for sharing.
While trolling may be a satisfying sport, between nations it has consequences. Our partners now realize that they need to build stronger relationships with other partners. Ideally, it will be other Western nations, but China would love to take up the slack.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The Paris Climate Accords does not promise to do anything significant to reduce global warming or very significantly address the issue of climate change. Also, China and India were not required in that treaty to abide by the same climate change standards as the USA. Meanwhile, is the WHO really and actually as effective as you think it is?
The US would've had to pay billions of dollars to developing nations not to use fossil fuel.

In other words, the US would have to offset the cost of green energy in those countries.

Trump was right to leave the Paris Accords, which were a disaster for the US taxpayers.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The Hallelujah’s are for the cleaning out of the liberal rot in our government. It appears to me many countries in Europe could benefit from the same type of disinfectant. It is my belief and that of many others that God placed Trump where he now is to bring this government back to sanity.
Sanity is relative.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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While trolling may be a satisfying sport, between nations it has consequences. Our partners now realize that they need to build stronger relationships with other partners. Ideally, it will be other Western nations, but China would love to take up the slack.
Damaging trust has far reaching consequences. Once Trump is out of office, the US can expect a similar payback atmosphere to what followed his first administration.
 
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Sanity is relative.
Relative to what? Common sense is easily recognizable. The liberal regime we just experienced had no common sense. We could list examples all day but many still don’t understand why they lost the election.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Relative to what? Common sense is easily recognizable. The liberal regime we just experienced had no common sense. We could list examples all day but many still don’t understand why they lost the election.
Relative to the standard of culture in a region.

For example, Trump and his cult seem pretty insane to Canadians.
 
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eclipsenow

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The Hallelujah’s are for the cleaning out of the liberal rot in our government. It appears to me many countries in Europe could benefit from the same type of disinfectant.
America is now so far to the right they can't see things straight. Now - as a Christian - some of what you call 'liberal rot' may indeed be rot. I am economically progressive, accept that climate change is deadly serious - along with a host of other environmental issues - and yet am also concerned for the economy, energy security (which in the long run is actually National Security!) - and a whole host of other issues. But I personally am socially conservative - I'm Christian - right?

So Australia now has gay marriage. Oh well! I can live with that - as long as I'm not impacted. As long our ministers are not required to marry gay people in church - and have the freedom of religion to refuse that. Seriously - what did Paul call the pagan Roman Emperors and soldiers in government? The enemies of God who worship the gods? Those pagan scoundrels - full of dead things - who take your taxes and put it towards building another statue of the Caesar-god or Jupiter?

No. He called them God's servants to do you good! Romans 13.
Also check his stuff on church discipline in Corinthians - and whether or not he said we were to judge the world.

This is where I think separation of church and state kicks in.

Economically - America would save TRILLIONS each year if you did 2 things:
  1. Nationalised healthcare and provided it to all (for the power of bulk buying from the market, and not paying hospital CEO's and healthcare insurers crazy salaries they don't deserve!) Just see the wiki!
  2. Ended the 'war on drugs' and provided a mental health model, which decriminalises drug addiction (without making those harmful drugs legal), provides the drugs in health clinics known as 'Safe injecting rooms', and offers counselling to those drug addicts. Overseas results shows great results. Instead America declares a war on drugs which drives down supply, raising the price - and creates an irresistible incentive to cartels. Not only that - America has the highest incarceration rates and expenses in the OECD. If Elon wanted to cut costs - he should recommend these 2 compassionate and economically fantastic solutions to Trump. But who ever said the alt-right was allowed to think outside the box and be compassionate? You know - help people! So you've created cartels so enormous they have their own version of accounting departments, hiring and firing staff, logistics experts, engineers, and even rival America's corporate empires like Wallmart. Don't some of them have submarines now?
    More on that here.
  3. Provide enough welfare and economic security - and abortion rates will go down without criminalising it and driving it underground so this horrible thing also kills mothers as well. Abortion rates actually went UP under Trump last term - as people felt less economically secure with his tax cuts to the rich and robbing of government programs for the poor. If these tariffs go through and he starts taxing the American people 25% on everything from Mexico and Canada, then there could be some serious economic impacts that might also increase abortion rates. Also - in Europe where abortion is legal and not as frowned on in the USA - they have HALF the rates. In some countries where it is illegal and punished harshly - they have 4 TIMES your rates! Just declaring abortion illegal is not the guarantee of success that lets you break out the champagne. The words on a bit of paper do not actually change the rates every time.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Looks like the Tariffs are back on. The idea of waiting 30 days was just a frivolous notion just like everything else Trump says.
 
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eclipsenow

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Looks like the Tariffs are back on. The idea of waiting 30 days was just a frivolous notion just like everything else Trump says.
TRADE
Back in the day trade was easy. Our tribe had meat - your tribe had fruits with something magic in them that stopped scurvy. (Vitamin C). We NEEDED each other! Then in the modern world we invented nation states and economics. Trade became about economics. Australia has LOTS of iron ore we mine with the best Aussie mega-trucks. America has LOTS of amazing software and a huge entertainment industry. Let's trade! When we both specialise in the things we are best at and trade - we all get the cheapest possible deal. Win win!

WHY CHINA IS WINNING
They have Muslim slaves in 're-education' camps making solar panels. They have really low environmental standards and Work, Health and Safety rules. They don't have as tight laws on pollution standards, meaning certain rare earth's are produced cheaper for the global market - but coming at the expense of the health of their local workers. They have lower salaries and endless labour.
But most of all - they have planning and subsidies from the government. This planning is about hitting economies of scale unlike anything the human race has ever SEEN before! Forget Henry Ford's production line - China has production line CITIES! All stacked neatly in a row. A few MILLION people live on this part of the 'line' - and they make that widget and provide all the services and lifestyle for the employees there. When finished, a few trucks take it a short distance to the next city of a few million people - and on it goes! It only works because the central government has absolute power to plan these things. They're not like modern democracies where say NASA can't build cheap rockets because every Senator needs jobs in his area, so the whole space industrial supply line is boondoggled inefficiently all over the continent! No - China's about efficiency. Or attempting to. (Corruption has crippled some of the provincial governments with their favouring a simplistic real estate pyramid scheme that collapsed. But China are even working on massive anti-corruption policies to try and combat such things.)

"IMAGINE ALL THE PEOPLE.... LIVING IN HARMONY...."
I wish we could all just get along, to allow for better trade. Imagine if the world traded everything everywhere without protection, subsidies, or tariffs. Imagine we all used one currency and had pretty much rationalised Ordo-Liberal Economics. (“Civil rights, social justice and State funded healthcare, welfare and education in a market economy.”) There would be global standards on stuff (Sorry America - you've got to go metric!) and it would be cheap, and reliable, and repairable, and great.

REALPOLITIK
But hang on. The world isn't integrated politically. It is also quite dangerous to have truly GLOBAL choke points! Imagine an earthquake takes out Taiwan! The world's best computer chips are ALL made there. One war or one big 'Black Swan' natural disaster - and the world is in trouble!

FRIENDSHORING
I guess in the real world we do need some duplication and redundancy - and it's probably best to think of it in terms of a strategic defence issue. I guess that's what Biden's I.R.A. bill was all about. The biggest industrial policy with the most boring name - the "Inflation Reduction Act". It gave stimulus to certain American vital interests - such as energy and CHIPS - without punishing democratic allies. It swung some doors in America's favour, without slamming the doors in friend's faces. When facing this kind of geopolitical rivalry from China, we should enrol the entire Western world in the cheapest possible friend-shoring trade pacts possible! It's the only way we could even pretend to have a chance of supplying what we need without relying on China. Not that anything we make would compete economically - but economics isn't the point. Defence is. Only a united front of democratic nations supplying each other's needs as cheaply as possible might just be able to wean off China without totally bankrupting ourselves.

DEFENCE: Indeed - we need both defensive and economic pacts much larger than NATO. The EU should Federate into a country called Europe - and streamline their bespoke individual weapons platforms into more streamlined production runs to bring the prices down. The USA has only 30 weapons platforms - absolutely bulk produced - and the EU has over 120 weapons platforms with tiny individualistic production runs that sends costs per unit through the roof!

TRUMP HURTS ALL THIS
But Trump is SO "alt-right" he has to dog-whistle to the extremists in his support base all the time. Then he puts a small tariff on China - and a huge tariff on his allies? He's doing the opposite of what we need to do to wean off China! He pretends he is doing a favour for the American working class by bringing a few industries home again. But what if those few jobs mean the rest of the population have their cost of living expenses soar even higher? I just don't get it. The urgent issue here is Russia and China. Then Trump comes along and adopts policies that will WEAKEN THE WEST while also threatening to withdraw from NATO. He's not a President. He was a real estate developer - and was not a very good one. Apparently as long as he gets to play king, it doesn't matter if he appeals to the worst instincts of the electorate - and ends up making the Western World go the way of the Trump Plaza Hotel.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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TRUMP HURTS ALL THIS
But Trump is SO "alt-right" he has to dog-whistle to the extremists in his support base all the time. Then he puts a small tariff on China - and a huge tariff on his allies? He's doing the opposite of what we need to do to wean off China! He pretends he is doing a favour for the American working class by bringing a few industries home again. But what if those few jobs mean the rest of the population have their cost of living expenses soar even higher? I just don't get it. The urgent issue here is Russia and China. Then Trump comes along and adopts policies that will WEAKEN THE WEST while also threatening to withdraw from NATO. He's not a President. He was a real estate developer - and was not a very good one. Apparently as long as he gets to play king, it doesn't matter if he appeals to the worst instincts of the electorate - and ends up making the Western World go the way of the Trump Plaza Hotel.
Starting think when Trump became president, the US became a terrorist organization .. but time will tell.
 
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