Maybe We Need More Objectivity, Talking About "STEM" Jobs

Stephen3141 · Jan 31, 2025

Trump's DEI policy threatens already thin share of women and minorities in STEM, workers say

While women make up more than half of the U.S. population, they constituted about a third of all people in STEM jobs as of 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

It is a common theme, that women are not getting a fair shake, with regard
to "STEM" jobs. I think that we need to be more precise when talking about
"STEM".

Do some basic searches.

51% of adults are women.
49% of adults are men.
(We need to adjust our use of "minority"?)

60% of college Freshmen are women, 40% are men.
About 70% of the "soft-tech" jobs requiring a college degree,
are being taken by women. Soft-tech includes a lot of the healthcare jobs.

So, when people talk about "STEM" jobs, and women not entering into them,
perhaps they are talking about academic positions, or specifically managerial
positions.

You will find sex discrepancies in some STEM jobs, such as in harware engineering,
and computer programmers. BUT, but there are serious other trends indicating
that women are getting into a lot of STEM jobs.

PloverWing · Jan 31, 2025

Stephen3141 said:
I think that we need to be more precise when talking about"STEM".

Stephen3141 said:
(We need to adjust our use of "minority"?)

Yes, we need to use language more precisely when talking about this subject. The language I usually use, and hear, is "underrepresented groups". Women are, as you say, not a minority in the general population. The comparison is the percentage of people in a field who are women, as compared to the percentage of women in the overall population. (Similarly with various ethnic groups.)

As you observe, "STEM" is a large category, and demographics vary by specific discipline and by country. I'm in computer science in the US, and women are still underrepresented in my field, in my country. I think the same is true in engineering. Medicine, on the other hand, has become more gender-balanced.

2PhiloVoid · Jan 31, 2025

Stephen3141 said:
Trump's DEI policy threatens already thin share of women and minorities in STEM, workers say

While women make up more than half of the U.S. population, they constituted about a third of all people in STEM jobs as of 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

It is a common theme, that women are not getting a fair shake, with regard
to "STEM" jobs. I think that we need to be more precise when talking about
"STEM".

Do some basic searches.

51% of adults are women.
49% of adults are men.
(We need to adjust our use of "minority"?)

60% of college Freshmen are women, 40% are men.
About 70% of the "soft-tech" jobs requiring a college degree,
are being taken by women. Soft-tech includes a lot of the healthcare jobs.

So, when people talk about "STEM" jobs, and women not entering into them,
perhaps they are talking about academic positions, or specifically managerial
positions.

You will find sex discrepancies in some STEM jobs, such as in harware engineering,
and computer programmers. BUT, but there are serious other trends indicating
that women are getting into a lot of STEM jobs.

Yay! Someone out there is smart enough to have a STEM job.............................................. :robot:

Laodicean60 · Jan 31, 2025

Stephen3141 said:
So, when people talk about "STEM" jobs, and women not entering into them,
perhaps they are talking about academic positions, or specifically managerial
positions.

Depending on what women gravitate to, there are a lot of women in the medical field because it's their nature to care just like women are mostly teachers.

JimR-OCDS · Jan 31, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Depending on what women gravitate to, there are a lot of women in the medical field because it's their nature to care just like women are mostly teachers.

And the Scandanavian Countries have confirmed that the more egalitarian a society is, the greater
divisions between men and women in career choices.

Just let the person choose their interest and stop trying to socially engineer the outcomes.

com7fy8 · Jan 31, 2025

If a lady wants to get a position that men tend to have, she might have to become like those men in order to get it.

Or, of course, she might be able to redefine the job so it works for her.

Like . . . I read once how a woman became a prison warden . . . in a men's penitentiary. She changed colors to pink, to soften the guys up, and did other things to bring in a more nonviolent atmosphere and culture, and the report says she succeeded.

JimR-OCDS · Feb 1, 2025

com7fy8 said:
If a lady wants to get a position that men tend to have, she might have to become like those men in order to get it.

And that's where women fail. Imitating is usually done when men are at their worse.

Women and men are different and women do not belong in men's prisons, just as biological men
do not belong in women's sports.

Laodicean60 · Feb 1, 2025

JimR-OCDS said:
And that's where women fail. Imitating is usually done when men are at their worse.

Women and men are different and women do not belong in men's prisons, just as biological men
do not belong in women's sports.

or prisons.

Arcangl86 · Feb 1, 2025

Stephen3141 said:
Trump's DEI policy threatens already thin share of women and minorities in STEM, workers say

While women make up more than half of the U.S. population, they constituted about a third of all people in STEM jobs as of 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

It is a common theme, that women are not getting a fair shake, with regard
to "STEM" jobs. I think that we need to be more precise when talking about
"STEM".

Do some basic searches.

51% of adults are women.
49% of adults are men.
(We need to adjust our use of "minority"?)

60% of college Freshmen are women, 40% are men.
About 70% of the "soft-tech" jobs requiring a college degree,
are being taken by women. Soft-tech includes a lot of the healthcare jobs.

So, when people talk about "STEM" jobs, and women not entering into them,
perhaps they are talking about academic positions, or specifically managerial
positions.

You will find sex discrepancies in some STEM jobs, such as in harware engineering,
and computer programmers. BUT, but there are serious other trends indicating
that women are getting into a lot of STEM jobs.

Generally speaking though, when people say "STEM" they don't include healthcare in that. Also I never heard of "soft-tech", so can you please explain where you got that term and numbers? I also wonder what the numbers look like if you exclude health care. Or even if you break healthcare jobs into discrete fields.

Stephen3141 · Feb 2, 2025

Arcangl86 said:
Generally speaking though, when people say "STEM" they don't include healthcare in that. Also I never heard of "soft-tech", so can you please explain where you got that term and numbers? I also wonder what the numbers look like if you exclude health care. Or even if you break healthcare jobs into discrete fields.

I take STEM to mean the foundation of the hard sciences and technologies that
are needed for many types of jobs.

This includes registered nurses, lab technicians, accountants, computer programmers,
hardware engineers, even types of educated law enforcement agents.

I have seen "soft-tech" used to describe jobs such as (trained) lab technicians in
healthcare, who definitely need advanced training in biology and chemistry and
math.

There are very few "pure" STEM" jobs.

(And, "STEM job" workers without good language skills, are VERY constricted in
their ability to recognize cross-discipline knowledge that would help them do their
jobs better.)

JimR-OCDS · Feb 2, 2025

Stephen3141 said:
I take STEM to mean the foundation of the hard sciences and technologies that
are needed for many types of jobs.

This includes registered nurses, lab technicians, accountants, computer programmers,
hardware engineers, even types of educated law enforcement agents.

I have seen "soft-tech" used to describe jobs such as (trained) lab technicians in
healthcare, who definitely need advanced training in biology and chemistry and
math.

There are very few "pure" STEM" jobs.

(And, "STEM job" workers without good language skills, are VERY constricted in
their ability to recognize cross-discipline knowledge that would help them do their
jobs better.)

STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

I worked in hi-tech and most of the jobs in engineering, electronics and mechanical
were purely STEM jobs.

PloverWing · Feb 2, 2025

JimR-OCDS said:
STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering, Mechanical.

Small correction: STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics.

JimR-OCDS · Feb 3, 2025

PloverWing said:
Small correction: STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics.

You are correct, thanks!

Fixed!

JimR-OCDS · Feb 3, 2025

BTW, what they found is that women entering mathematics, do as well if not better than males.
They also have better verbal skills than males, making their choices broader. However, given
the freedom to choose, females will be drawn towards the humanities more than STEM careers.
Males however generally stay in the STEM careers as their skills are limited in those area.

Also, what they found is that in law practice, females will leave the profession just as they're reaching
the age to receive a partnership. Many females prefer a family life than a professional life at that stage.

Unfortunately, over 50% of females who reach the age of 30, have not had their first child. 90% regret
making that decision.

PloverWing · Feb 3, 2025

JimR-OCDS said:
BTW, what they found is that women entering mathematics, do as well if not better than males.
They also have better verbal skills than males, making their choices broader. However, given
the freedom to choose, females will be drawn towards the humanities more than STEM careers.
Males however generally stay in the STEM careers as their skills are limited in those area.

Also, what they found is that in law practice, females will leave the profession just as they're reaching
the age to receive a partnership. Many females prefer a family life than a professional life at that stage.

It's still an open question why men and women make those choices, and whether those choices would change if society changed. For example, I believe it's also common for male lawyers to marry and become parents. If society shifts so that child-rearing responsibilities are shared more evenly between mothers and fathers, I'd like to see whether that changes the career choices people make. (We may just have to wait 50 years and see what happens.)

JimR-OCDS said:
Unfortunately, over 50% of females who reach the age of 30, have not had their first child. 90% regret
making that decision.

What's your source for the 90% statistic?

Maybe We Need More Objectivity, Talking About "STEM" Jobs

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