President Trump - hopes and risks

Lukaris · Jan 19, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
What are the alternatives to NATO or our current alliance?

What course of action should the United States take after exiting NATO? This move will damage our diplomatic relationships with the European Union and other NATO member countries. It may also signal to other nations, such as Japan or South Korea, that forming enduring alliances with the United States is not feasible due to perceived self-interest on the part of the U.S.

Japan and South Korea are far more vulnerable than Europe and probably more deserving of American commitment. France can come and go as it pleases with NATO; the US can leave it altogether.

France and NATO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

FAITH-IN-HIM · Jan 20, 2025

Lukaris said:
Japan and South Korea are far more vulnerable than Europe and probably more deserving of American commitment. France can come and go as it pleases with NATO; the US can leave it altogether.

France and NATO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You still didn’t answer my question. If the US leaves NATO, it will affect its diplomatic relationship with NATO countries. If Europe and NATO were to become adversarial towards the US, what alternative alliances would the US have?

Aryeh Jay · Jan 20, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
You still didn’t answer my question. If the US leaves NATO, it will affect its diplomatic relationship with NATO countries. If Europe and NATO were to become adversarial towards the US, what alternative alliances would the US have?

We could join with Russia to counter the threat of a hostile NATO bent on expansion, conquest, and Empire building.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Jan 20, 2025

Aryeh Jay said:
We could join with Russia to counter the threat of a hostile NATO bent on expansion, conquest, and Empire building.

It is possible to consider ending a 70-year alliance with NATO, which has a combined GDP of 27 trillion dollars, in order to form a partnership with a long-standing US adversary that has a GDP of 2.8 trillion dollars.

We might achieve better trade with Russia, with its $2.8 trillion GDP, compared to NATO's $27 trillion GDP.

There has been a perception that Americans do not excel in mathematics, and this move could reinforce that view.

Lukaris · Jan 20, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
You still didn’t answer my question. If the US leaves NATO, it will affect its diplomatic relationship with NATO countries. If Europe and NATO were to become adversarial towards the US, what alternative alliances would the US have?

This is a big hypothetical situation that I tend to doubt would happen. If it is likely, it doesn’t say much for Europe. George Washington said we should not have entangled alliances and we need a new way to live in this world because the status quo is a disaster. Keeping Ukraine strong & ending the current war is an honorable exit. Let Europe keep Russia in check.

Aryeh Jay · Jan 20, 2025

Lukaris said:
This is a big hypothetical situation that I tend to doubt would happen. If it is likely, it doesn’t say much for Europe. George Washington said we should not have entangled alliances and we need a new way to live in this world because the status quo is a disaster. Keeping Ukraine strong & ending the current war is an honorable exit. Let Europe keep Russia in check.

Europe is more than qualified to fulfill this task, just look how they put an unruly Germany in their place, twice no less.

mindlight · Jan 20, 2025

Trump just made the best possible promise in his inauguration speech. He has committed to Mars!!!! His drill baby drill policy seems to be the way he wants to cut energy prices. A deal in Ukraine would also help on that

It was a powerful and moving religious service with genuine prayers. The singer reminded me just how powerful a man's voice can be. It strikes me we have only been listening to women sing a while now - so it was time.

Not sure about the proposed tariffs and the external revenue department which just sounded like a naive prelude to a trade war. Cartels as terrorists sounded interesting but mass deportations of the weak and poor sound morally indefensible and are probably going to be expensive.

Panama looks like losing the canal but Greenland and Canada were not mentioned

Can Musk deliver efficiencies? Probably but I think he will trample on a lot of toes - maybe that is what it takes.

Now when do the JFK files come out not to mention the MLK files?

FAITH-IN-HIM · Jan 20, 2025

Lukaris said:
This is a big hypothetical situation that I tend to doubt would happen. If it is likely, it doesn’t say much for Europe. George Washington said we should not have entangled alliances and we need a new way to live in this world because the status quo is a disaster. Keeping Ukraine strong & ending the current war is an honorable exit. Let Europe keep Russia in check.

In international diplomacy, relationships are often classified as either adversarial or friendly. If USA were to exit NATO, it is likely that we would be perceived as adversaries rather than allies.

Are you comfortable with Europe, the second largest economy in the world, with two nuclear powers, being an adversary of the US? This situation could potentially lead to significant global challenges.

mindlight · Jan 20, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
It is possible to consider ending a 70-year alliance with NATO, which has a combined GDP of 27 trillion dollars, in order to form a partnership with a long-standing US adversary that has a GDP of 2.8 trillion dollars.

We might achieve better trade with Russia, with its $2.8 trillion GDP, compared to NATO's $27 trillion GDP.

There has been a perception that Americans do not excel in mathematics, and this move could reinforce that view.

Economically the larger necessity of a Europe - US alliance is so that it always carries a greater weight than China. Without NATO and with punitive barriers that alliance is under threat. The consequence is a multipolar and therefore more unstable world. Historically such times are usually especially bloody characterized by war and instability.

Regarding Russia, Trump does not seem to grasp is that Russia has what Europe needs- fossil fuels and minerals. Russia by contrast does not have anything the USA wants. If the war ends, Russia is the cheaper supplier in most conceivable scenarios. Yet Europe has the moral character to value freedom and democracy over that temptation in its support for the sovereign nation of Ukraine. But if the USA starts landing tariffs and compelling the purchase of more expensive energy that will not play well for the future.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Jan 20, 2025

mindlight said:
Economically the larger necessity of a Europe - US alliance is so that it always carries a greater weight than China. Without NATO and with punitive barriers that alliance is under threat. The consequence is a multipolar and therefore more unstable world. Historically such times are usually especially bloody characterized by war and instability.

Regarding Russia, Trump does not seem to grasp is that Russia has what Europe needs- fossil fuels and minerals. Russia by contrast does not have anything the USA wants. If the war ends, Russia is the cheaper supplier in most conceivable scenarios. Yet Europe has the moral character to value freedom and democracy over that temptation in its support for the sovereign nation of Ukraine. But if the USA starts landing tariffs and compelling the purchase of more expensive energy that will not play well for the future.

As an American, I find the animosity towards Europe puzzling.

I understand the differences between conservatives and liberals on domestic policies like tax cuts, immigration, and social issues. I also grasp the distinct foreign policy views of Democrats and Republicans regarding support for Israel vs. Palestine and approaches to spreading democracy in the Middle East versus avoiding global conflicts. However, I am puzzled by the recent animosity towards Europe and NATO allies by some conservatives.

The US has had a "special relationship" with the UK since 1812, and its post-WWII alliance with Europe and NATO has greatly benefited both sides. It's perplexing why some Americans want to end this alliance. Even more confusing, those who advocate leaving NATO and the EU have no alternative solution other than "we shouldn't be involved in Europe."

Lukaris · Jan 21, 2025

Aryeh Jay said:
Europe is more than qualified to fulfill this task, just look how they put an unruly Germany in their place, twice no less.

The US sided with empires in WW I that were as bad as those they opposed plus the US itself had copied these corrupt systems in the war against Spain.

High Fidelity · Jan 21, 2025

I don’t respect Trump, I don’t think he’s Christian, but I do think a lot of good will come of his Presidency.

Unfortunately for the rest of the world, many Western countries look to America, or are influenced by it, when it comes to social issues. It feels like middle-class white liberal women have had a monopoly on things for a long time, and I’m not the only one fed up being told what to think, feel or be offended by.

No doubt there will be negatives, especially as a non-American knowing Trump will bully other nations, allied or not, into getting what he wants.

Anyway, probably my last post on the subject as I have no interest in political threads anymore as they always devolve into tribal mud slinging .

I wish him well.

Lukaris · Jan 21, 2025

From post #30:

“The US has had a "special relationship" with the UK since 1812, and its post-WWII alliance with Europe and NATO has greatly benefited both sides. It's perplexing why some Americans want to end this alliance. Even more confusing, those who advocate leaving NATO and the EU have no alternative solution other than "we shouldn't be involved in Europe."

Reply:

I think the war of 1812 was bad for the US & Britain. Despite the outcome of the American Revolution, the 1763 royal proclamation intention was basically in effect. Britain abandoned the frontier forts and any possible balance for a limited US westward expansion & welfare of American Indians was lost.

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 21, 2025

Biggest risk is all the deregulation we are going to see. Remember 2007 crash?

President Trump - hopes and risks

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