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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Shooting at Christian School in Madison, WI

Oompa Loompa

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The predictable response will be that it is not as easy to kill a lot of people with a knife as it is with a gun. But so far, that argument never holds up when an incident occurs. If an AR15 is not used, a shotgun is. If the shooter moves down to a handgun, then the anti gun people say that it's a handgun problem. Take those away, and people turn to knives, and if those are taken away, people turn to blunt instruments, or even bombs and incendiaries. Even social media gets attention as being a means of "mental terrorism".
Those who are anti gun will never be happy until they take control of every aspect of people's lives.
If you see the article I posted, you will find a deranged lunatic massacring a bunch of younglings with a knife as if his name was Anakin Skywalker. No guns needed.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Except that knife violence in most of the rest of the world, and certainly the developed world, occurs at a FRACTION of US gun violence rates
I had to stop there because it fails to invalidate my point. Again, we don't have a gun problem. We have a crime problem. There is no evidence to suggest that taking guns away will lower murder rates. We have high gun violence because we have a lot of guns. But the violence will not go away if guns were to go away. Likely, if guns magically vanished from the United States, the United States would have one of the highest knife deaths in the world. So let's please focused on the real issues and stop being distracted by the methods.
 
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Pommer

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I had to stop there because it fails to invalidate my point. Again, we don't have a gun problem. We have a crime problem. There is no evidence to suggest that taking guns away will lower murder rates. We have high gun violence because we have a lot of guns. But the violence will not go away if guns were to go away. Likely, if guns magically vanished from the United States, the United States would have one of the highest knife deaths in the world. So let's lease focused on the real issues and stop being distracted by the methods.
One can commit suicide with a bladed instrument; I don’t think, however that knife suicides would grow very much, as the actions necessary would require a level of resolve to go through with the act that would preclude such a person from considering such. (Strong-willed people tend to reason themselves out of suicide-by-knife.)

I bring up suicides since most gun-related deaths are, year-over-year, (54% to 43%), over murder.

But as to murder-by-knife, yeah, there’s no reason to think that a lone knifeman could murder more than maybe in the high single-digits. Certainly not from ranges of over a few meters.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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One can commit suicide with a bladed instrument; I don’t think, however that knife suicides would grow very much, as the actions necessary would require a level of resolve to go through with the act that would preclude such a person from considering such. (Strong-willed people tend to reason themselves out of suicide-by-knife.)

I bring up suicides since most gun-related deaths are, year-over-year, (54% to 43%), over murder.

But as to murder-by-knife, yeah, there’s no reason to think that a lone knifeman could murder more than maybe in the high single-digits. Certainly not from ranges of over a few meters.
Your point is mute. See previous comments. Even if I even entertained your deflection to suicides, knives are not the only other option. Perhaps sleeping pill overdoses would be the next big craze for all we know.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The issue is too many guns and access to them is too easy.

No no no. We can't insult the guns, they're too sacred. It's why throughout the year we need to make regular blood offerings of children to guns. This is America, and in this country, guns are more important than the lives of children.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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public hermit

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No no no. We can't insult the guns, they're too sacred. It's why throughout the year we need to make regular blood offerings of children to guns. This is America, and in this country, guns are more important than the lives of children.

-CryptoLutheran

Right, a modern day Moloch.

"And thou shalt not give any of thy seed to set them apart to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD." Lev. 18:21
 

Aldebaran

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One can commit suicide with a bladed instrument; I don’t think, however that knife suicides would grow very much, as the actions necessary would require a level of resolve to go through with the act that would preclude such a person from considering such. (Strong-willed people tend to reason themselves out of suicide-by-knife.)

I bring up suicides since most gun-related deaths are, year-over-year, (54% to 43%), over murder.

But as to murder-by-knife, yeah, there’s no reason to think that a lone knifeman could murder more than maybe in the high single-digits. Certainly not from ranges of over a few meters.
You think suicides are also the fault of guns? Even in Canada, suicide is no longer a problem because the State encourages and even facilitates it. So don't try equating the availablility of guns in the USA to the availability of suicide.
 
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Gene2memE

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I had to stop there because it fails to invalidate my point. Again, we don't have a gun problem. We have a crime problem. There is no evidence to suggest that taking guns away will lower murder rates.

Except for all of the evidence that it does lead to lower homicide and suicide rates. From all the other countries where they have introduced tighter gun laws in the past 40 years.

We have high gun violence because we have a lot of guns. But the violence will not go away if guns were to go away.

No-one is saying it will end violence. But, guns are a MAGNIFIER of violence. Statistically, the presence of firearms in a situation leads to a greater overall likelihood violence will occur, and when it does occur the violence is worse in both number of victims and harm done to each individual.

Reduce then number of firearms and you reduce the amount of violence.

Likely, if guns magically vanished from the United States, the United States would have one of the highest knife deaths in the world.

Would it?
 
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Aldebaran

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No-one is saying it will end violence. But, guns are a MAGNIFIER of violence. Statistically, the presence of firearms in a situation leads to a greater overall likelihood violence will occur, and when it does occur the violence is worse in both number of victims and harm done to each individual.
I'd just like to point out that guns are also an equalizer against violence in that a gun in the hands of a potential victim, no matter if they be female, old, weak, etc., they have a much better chance of surviving an attack against an aggressor, even if the aggressor be a big, strong guy who preys upon the weak.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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You think suicides are also the fault of guns? Even in Canada, suicide is no longer a problem because the State encourages and even facilitates it. So don't try equating the availablility of guns in the USA to the availability of suicide.
Because it is scientifically proven that guns make people want to kill themselves. It's the gun demons to blame.
 
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Aldebaran

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Because it is scientifically proven that guns make people want to kill themselves. It's the gun demons to blame.
And they're random and clumsy. Better to use a more "civilized" lightsaber.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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No no no. We can't insult the guns, they're too sacred. It's why throughout the year we need to make regular blood offerings of children to guns. This is America, and in this country, guns are more important than the lives of children.

-CryptoLutheran
But only if the children have been born. Pre-born are strictly off-limits and must be brought into the world for various reasons such as to "replenish the domestic supply", and sacrifice themselves for the 2nd amendment.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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It's why throughout the year we need to make regular blood offerings of children to guns.
Abortions already takes care of the blood offerings. The rest is just the gun demons.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Sounds like "intersectional" lacks meaning because everyone has a race, gender, age, etc, etc - and every dimension is salient to every encounter.
Therin lies the problem with people who have basically made a career out of pushing the intersectional ideologies.

They've constructed the narrative in such that the poop rolls downhill, and if followed down the rabbit hole enough, ultimately concludes with "white/straight/hetero/cis/Chistian privilege is the underlying source of every issue/incident"
 
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durangodawood

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Therin lies the problem with people who have basically made a career out of pushing the intersectional ideologies.

They've constructed the narrative in such that the poop rolls downhill, and if followed down the rabbit hole enough, ultimately concludes with "white/straight/hetero/cis/Chistian privilege is the underlying source of every issue/incident"
To me the original formulation of intersectional makes sense: that there's various aspects of personal identity which can and often do affect power relations in interrelated ways.

But if youre going to make a career out if it it probably helps to make it the lens through which all events must be analyzed.
 
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