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It's Official Trump is the 47th President of the USA

RestoreTheJoy

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It's funny you say that. The phrase "in loco parentis" means that a person is acting in place of a parent. You will note, of course, that the school's literal and EXACT job is to act, in loco parentis.
As teacher's we were taught this on our FIRST day of our education degree. IT's what makes the role of teacher so, so important; we work in the place of a parent. We have legal responsibilities in acting that way.
You will likely find the phrase "in loco parentis" associated with education in your state's education department somewhere too.

So this idea that teachers are "in no way" substitute parents is an attitude that you have the freedom to believe but you will experience a great deal of frustration in holding onto the belief because it is factually inaccurate.


If you have been in a school, you will also note that the idea that teachers are only to teach "academics" is, well frankly, laughable. This suggests that if I see a kid absolutely beating the snot out of another kid, I'm supposed to turn a blind eye. That if, in my high Muslim population school, a group of boys accosts a christian and starts pushing him around, I'm supposed to ignore it because it's not my job. When I see a kid littering on school property, I should give him a worksheet on subtracting fractions instead of coaching him through why it's important not to littler in case his parents encourage him to litter.

Obviously, teachers must provide guidance, protection and cues to students not behaving in ways society deems as inappropriate. But every single time a teacher does that, it can be argued that they are "imposing and teaching values". There are values that are shared within society (Generally). I would say that schools' jobs are also to help parents teach those values. Values like littering ain't great; bully is bad; treat everyone with respect. I'm pretty sure that is Belk's argument.

Because parents teach lessons like that, often, in a vaccuum FAR away from a time or place when the child applies those values. Teachers are on the front line 6 hours a day. In fact, here's the CRAZY Irony:

Class of 25 students. I LA class every day (50 minutes). The amount of 1 to 1 time your child likely receives in a day is going to be MERE minutes. In terms of direct, 1 to 1 academic instruction, there is very little 1 to 1 time. Yes whole group and instruction in skills and guidance will be a whole class, but responding to needs of one student? That's different.

However, we see children's behaviour all day. All.Day. 330 minutes a day. Simply put, there's more opportunity for us to notice and correct behaviour than proper tense in story writing.
In loco parentis has specific limitations; teachers are not parents. Under tort principles of negligence, teachers owe the duty to protect students from foreseeable dangers. And in that way, teachers exercise supervision that a reasonable parent would exercise. Teachers merely have physical custody of the students during the school day, hence the crowd control requirement and the duty to teach academics, their sole function. In drug cases, teachers also function as an agent of the state.

I'm not demeaning teachers, as you seem to think. I'm merely saying they have a very specific function and that function does not include teaching our children to embrace values outside of general values such as being kind and polite when responding, things like that. They do not have authority to contravene their parents' values.
 
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rambot

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In loco parentis has specific limitations; teachers are not parents. Under tort principles of negligence, teachers owe the duty to protect students from foreseeable dangers. And in that way, teachers exercise supervision that a reasonable parent would exercise. Teachers merely have physical custody of the students during the school day, hence the crowd control requirement and the duty to teach academics, their sole function. In drug cases, teachers also function as an agent of the state.

I'm not demeaning teachers, as you seem to think. I'm merely saying they have a very specific function and that function does not include teaching our children to embrace values outside of general values such as being kind and polite when responding, things like that. They do not have authority to contravene their parents' values.
IF a parent's values are "it's good to bully kids" or even "I don't care if you bully kids" then you are incorrect.]
And please, let's not bother to pretend those parents don't exist.
 
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rambot

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Wishful thinking and reinventing history from the same people who suggest David and Johnathan, Jesus and John, and Ruth and Naomi were lovers. Just perverted reimagined history to justify a perverse agenda.
Uh no.
There were types of eunichs back in the day (7th century).
If you've heard of "2S" that refers to two spirit natives who are said to inhabit men and women. Can't much comment more on that.
Several asian countries that third genders
Kalonymus ben Kalonymus had famous medieval writings morning about being born a man and not a woman.
They had clinics set up in preNazi Germany....but you can guess what happened to them.
There was a male arrested for prostitution posing as a man in 1394 (John Reykener

I'm sorry. You're just factually inaccurate.
 
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rambot

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wIn loco parentis has specific limitations; teachers are not parents.
Nobody is arguing that. Teachers are to act in place of parents.

Under tort principles of negligence, teachers owe the duty to protect students from foreseeable dangers. And in that way, teachers exercise supervision that a reasonable parent would exercise.
Did you know that teachers also teach that speaking when you are being spoken to is rude? That making armpit sounds can be fun but it's not appropriate when people are trying to accomplish other tasks. That just because the new students has a prosthetic hand, doesn't mean you have the right to nickname him Handy and refuse to stop when called him that when he asks.

Teachers provide cultural and social expectations. And do so when the parents can't be there.

Teachers merely have physical custody of the students during the school day, hence the crowd control requirement and the duty to teach academics, their sole function.
Repeating it does not make it true.
I'm not demeaning teachers, as you seem to think.
Oh, I don't think you are, but either way I couldn't care less.


I'm merely saying they have a very specific function and that function does not include teaching our children to embrace values outside of general values such as being kind and polite when responding, things like that.
BOOM and right there conflict can come up as who decides who is worthy of being treated with kindness, and politeness? And what other values?

Do you know how complex that gets? 98% of teachers wished more than ANYTHING that they ONLY thing they had to do was teach. Just hook up their brain to the machine, teach, assess, report, blah. That's it. Nothing else. We have to fill the roles of\ teachers, counsellors, psychologists, speech pathologists, social workers, therapists, nurses, Human Resources officers, accountants, family support workers.

Now we don't have to be those roles for every kid. IF you do a good job providing for your child's needs (which I would imagine you do), your family would likely not need to see a teacher fill that role for you. BUT there are families that ABOSULTELY DO need that role filled. And you would agree!!!

If I told you how I am having to handle a particular student in my class right now and potential CFS involvement and the reasons why, I'd like to believe that you'd recognize the story was not uncommon and that teachers do need to do more than just teacher.

Because some kids don't get to experience love or connection at home. And because so many kids prefer just hanging out on a phone than having face to face time with a parent.

Additionally, either actively or passively, some parents can create some ...or even just kids with no respect for themselves or others. And those parents teach values outside of what our culture teaches.
 
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rjs330

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Nobody is arguing that. Teachers are to act in place of parents.


Did you know that teachers also teach that speaking when you are being spoken to is rude? That making armpit sounds can be fun but it's not appropriate when people are trying to accomplish other tasks. That just because the new students has a prosthetic hand, doesn't mean you have the right to nickname him Handy and refuse to stop when called him that when he asks.

Teachers provide cultural and social expectations. And do so when the parents can't be there.


Repeating it does not make it true.

Oh, I don't think you are, but either way I couldn't care less.



BOOM and right there conflict can come up as who decides who is worthy of being treated with kindness, and politeness? And what other values?

Do you know how complex that gets? 98% of teachers wished more than ANYTHING that they ONLY thing they had to do was teach. Just hook up their brain to the machine, teach, assess, report, blah. That's it. Nothing else. We have to fill the roles of\ teachers, counsellors, psychologists, speech pathologists, social workers, therapists, nurses, Human Resources officers, accountants, family support workers.

Now we don't have to be those roles for every kid. IF you do a good job providing for your child's needs (which I would imagine you do), your family would likely not need to see a teacher fill that role for you. BUT there are families that ABOSULTELY DO need that role filled. And you would agree!!!

If I told you how I am having to handle a particular student in my class right now and potential CFS involvement and the reasons why, I'd like to believe that you'd recognize the story was not uncommon and that teachers do need to do more than just teacher.

Because some kids don't get to experience love or connection at home. And because so many kids prefer just hanging out on a phone than having face to face time with a parent.

Additionally, either actively or passively, some parents can create some ...or even just kids with no respect for themselves or others. And those parents teach values outside of what our culture teaches.
The fact that you can't tell the difference between universal values and ideology in a bit frightening.

Things like politeness, kindness or manners are universal values of a society. Ideology like the gender unicorn or universal healthcare or social justice and CRT are ideologies rhat have no place being taught in the classroom.
 
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rambot

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The fact that you can't tell the difference between universal values and ideology in a bit frightening.

Things like politeness, kindness or manners are universal values of a society. Ideology like the gender unicorn or universal healthcare or social justice and CRT are ideologies rhat have no place being taught in the classroom.
You'd do well to not jump into the conversation at that point since I haven't been arguing in favour of ANYTHING you are suggesting yet. Though I can't help to think that a social studies class in high school where you don't take conflicting viewpoints, is about as hollow an education as one could receive.
 
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rjs330

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You'd do well to not jump into the conversation at that point since I haven't been arguing in favour of ANYTHING you are suggesting yet. Though I can't help to think that a social studies class in high school where you don't take conflicting viewpoints, is about as hollow an education as one could receive.
I've been following along. It's started with the argument of teachers reaching values and that's the parents Job and not the teachers. You've been arguing that teachers teach values when the parents aren't around and you have examples of it.

So.its obvious from rhe conversation you don't understand the difference between universal societal values and ideological values.
 
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rjs330

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Though I can't help to think that a social studies class in high school where you don't take conflicting viewpoints, is about as hollow an education as one could receive.

I actually have no.problem with high school classes that have these types of discussions as long as the teacher has free and fair discussions and completely stays away from presenting their own point of view.
 
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rambot

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I've been following along. It's started with the argument of teachers reaching values and that's the parents Job and not the teachers. You've been arguing that teachers teach values when the parents aren't around and you have examples of it.
No. I've been saying that when we teach kids to put garbage in the in we are teaching values. When we encourage them to help students who need help we teach them values.

I've been arguing that teachers teach values because of the fact that they are given the task of teaching kids as they practice social skills and interact and grow. That is just not being accepted and being confused.
So.its obvious from rhe conversation you don't understand the difference between universal societal values and ideological values.
With all due respect, every year at our school we have a dozen sets of parents who would have values 180* opposite to yours. You can talk about "universal societal values" but when rubber hits the road and you actually MEET other people in your society, escape your echo chamber, you would see how different people can be.
 
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rambot

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I actually have no.problem with high school classes that have these types of discussions as long as the teacher has free and fair discussions and completely stays away from presenting their own point of view.
Do you mean ADVOCATING or even just mentioning, or providing details in support of that view?
 
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rjs330

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No. I've been saying that when we teach kids to put garbage in the in we are teaching values. When we encourage them to help students who need help we teach them values.

Yes that's called universal societal values of using your manners. Thats not ideology.
With all due respect, every year at our school we have a dozen sets of parents who would have values 180* opposite to yours. You can talk about "universal societal values" but when rubber hits the road and you actually MEET other people in your society, escape your echo chamber, you would see how different people can be.
Yes and that's why you shouldn't be teaching ideological values. I dont live in an echo.chamber. I think you do since 90+ % of people in your field are leftists.
I work in a place that is very diverse. I have worked with lgbtq members my entire career. So please get off your high horse.

Your desire to instruct kids in ideologies are precisely why people are fed up and one of the reasons Trump.won.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Uh no.
There were types of eunichs back in the day (7th century).
If you've heard of "2S" that refers to two spirit natives who are said to inhabit men and women. Can't much comment more on that.
Several asian countries that third genders
Kalonymus ben Kalonymus had famous medieval writings morning about being born a man and not a woman.
They had clinics set up in preNazi Germany....but you can guess what happened to them.
There was a male arrested for prostitution posing as a man in 1394 (John Reykener

I'm sorry. You're just factually inaccurate.
No. All that is factually inaccurate because "gender" wasn't a thing. Just people with an agenda doing eisegesis on things to push an agenda. Like how Black nationalists claim that the Israelites (Including Moses) are Black and are therefore God's chosen people. I guarantee that if you asked any of them for evidence, they will throw out a lot of reinvented and imagined nonsense too.
 
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rambot

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No. All that is factually inaccurate because "gender" wasn't a thing.
Gender has always been a thing; even if it wasn't given the word, or conceptualized by man.
Just people with an agenda doing eisegesis on things to push an agenda.
Then it sure would be SUPER easy to disprove everything I typed by showing how their interpretations of the mentioned events was wrong.

Like how Black nationalists claim that the Israelites (Including Moses) are Black and are therefore God's chosen people. I guarantee that if you asked any of them for evidence, they will throw out a lot of reinvented and imagined nonsense too.
All I can do is give you the knowledge. I can't ask you to accept it.

But don't pretend that what I just wrote doesn't exist. Go back, study those events and cultural understandings and parse out what was ACTUALLY happenning in each of those circumstances if I'm wrong.
 
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rambot

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Your desire to instruct kids in ideologies are precisely why people are fed up and one of the reasons Trump.won.
It must be really hard for you to hear that I fight back against parents who teach their kids' racist beliefs.

I'm sorry that triggers you so.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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IF a parent's values are "it's good to bully kids" or even "I don't care if you bully kids" then you are incorrect.]
And please, let's not bother to pretend those parents don't exist.
No parent actually has the value of "it's good to bully kids".

If there is a reasonable belief based on evidence that a parent is violating the law, the school can contact the police.
 
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rjs330

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It must be really hard for you to hear that I fight back against parents who teach their kids' racist beliefs.

I'm sorry that triggers you so.
How dare you tell a child that what a parent teaches them is racist. You should be fired. Tomorrow
 
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rambot

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How dare you tell a child that what a parent teaches them is racist. You should be fired. Tomorrow
What about when a racist teaches their child racist ideas?

Do you truly not think that parents teach their kids racist ideas?

How do you think racism goes to the next generation?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Gender has always been a thing;
No, it hasn't.
Then it sure would be SUPER easy to disprove everything I typed by showing how their interpretations of the mentioned events was wrong.
Yes, it would never SUPER easy. Just not worth my time.
All I can do is give you the knowledge. I can't ask you to accept it.
When you give me factual knowledge, minus the propaganda, I will accept it.
 
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rjs330

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What about when a racist teaches their child racist ideas?
How do you know that a parent is teaching a kid racist ideas? Are you asking the parents if they are teaching the child those things?
Do you truly not think that parents teach their kids racist ideas?
Of course they do, are you asking the parents about it?
 
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rjs330

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Gender has always been a thing; even if it wasn't given the word, or conceptualized by man.
No it hasn't. Sex has been though.
All I can do is give you the knowledge. I can't ask you to accept it.
What you've provided is ideology. Not facts. 2 spirit was invented in the 90s.

The poet wrote an Edda that suggested he wish he was born a girl. It's a poem and impossible to know what he was thinking and why. He could very well gave been concerned over a homosexual issue, or maybe he had ED. It doesn't prove anything.

Now that being said, mental illness has been around since the beginning of time. So I would be hard pressed to say it's impossible that there weren't transgendered people before the modern era. I'm sure there were just like there were probably schizophrenics, people who were bi-polar or what have you. There were probably dudes who thought they were women. So? They thought they were the opposite SEX. Since gender wasn't a thing until the 1900's. And it really wasn't a thing until a pedophile made it a thing. A failed scientist pedophile whose whole theory failed. And yet you still believe in it and want to pretend it's always existed. The answer is, it hasn't. It was always sex and only sex.
Sexual roles
Sexual norms
Sexual behaviors

Gender us sex and sex is gender. You were never able to define gender without using sex as the basis for it. Gender does not exist outside of sex. (Except in language that include masculine and feminine or neuter nouns)

Name a gendered something that humans do or how humans are that has nothing to do with a reference to biological sex but is gendered.
 
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