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Ohio Starting to fund the Building of Religious Schools

RocksInMyHead

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Are the bills directly aimed at anything religion specific, or is it more likened to when Churches (who operate certain public services for the common good) receive certain government money (like churches that operate food pantries and homeless shelters)
The grant program is not specifically aimed at religious schools, but they do appear to be some of the larger recipients. And, regardless of religious affiliation, I think there's a real problem if the state is paying to improve facilities at private schools so that they can accept more voucher students. That's basically a double-whammy against public schools - they're losing out on the money that's being earmarked specifically for private institutions, which is being used to entice students away from them (and attendance is the basis for a portion of public school funding).

Fundamentally, this is different from churches receiving public funds for food pantries and homeless shelters because those are services that local government typically does not provide.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The grant program is not specifically aimed at religious schools, but they do appear to be some of the larger recipients. And, regardless of religious affiliation, I think there's a real problem if the state is paying to improve facilities at private schools so that they can accept more voucher students. That's basically a double-whammy against public schools - they're losing out on the money that's being earmarked specifically for private institutions, which is being used to entice students away from them (and attendance is the basis for a portion of public school funding).

Fundamentally, this is different from churches receiving public funds for food pantries and homeless shelters because those are services that local government typically does not provide.

So would you be in favor of what I mentioned, which is to reserve the money in escrow (lock box) for the public school systems, but make them actually apply for it with a plan that can be reviewed, outlining what they intend on doing with it that'll approve outcomes?


In a nutshell, keep the money in the public sector, but make the public sector entities apply for it under the same rules and restrictions private entities do when they apply for government money/grants?


The issue that's happening is that there doesn't seem to be any direct correlation between per pupil spending, and educational outcomes with regards to public school systems.




You have states like New Jersey and Connecticut that do spend more and have good results, but then you have other jurisdictions like DC and New York where they're underperforming despite higher spending levels.

Likewise, you have states with smaller spending like Indiana and South Dakota that seem to be performing fairly well, but then you have other low-spend area like Alabama and Oklahoma that are struggling.


So I'm 100% in favor of keeping the public money in the public sector, but there needs to be some expectations attached to that money.

"Our test scores still are 20% below the national average, but hey, we got some new desks and upgraded the gym and cafeteria" isn't what I'd call a good use of the money. The "throw more money at it" clearly hasn't been working.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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So would you be in favor of what I mentioned, which is to reserve the money in escrow (lock box) for the public school systems, but make them actually apply for it with a plan that can be reviewed, outlining what they intend on doing with it that'll approve outcomes?
That sounds like it could be a way to incentivize improvement. I wouldn't be opposed to it, at least in principle.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Why do I feel that if an Islamic school demanded those funds, they wouldn't receive them and Christian tax payers would refuse to pay taxes that would go to that school?

Are there even a significant number of Islamic schools in the US?

There's a few I guess... like this one:

But there actually are cases of the few that exist being offered government funding, but they turned it down in protest


That aside, there are differences between Islam and Catholicism (with regards to social cohesiveness) that shouldn't be ignored.
(for those saying that assertion may be "Islamophobic"...if you're a secularist/atheist like myself, if you absolutely had to pick one, would you rather live in Rome or Riyadh... I rest my case) Catholic education can still produce people who can "fit in" with a secular society, I have doubts about whether or not the same is true for Islamic education (my criticisms are the same of Amish and Hasidic education for the record)

Also, the few Islamic schools that do exist suffer the same kinds of problems as the Hasidic Jewish schools in NYC (who've also gotten government funding btw) in that the test results are subpar, they're often disorganized, and the students have a hard time adjusting after they leave... as where Catholic schools have over-achieved when compared to public schools in terms of scholastics.
 
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rambot

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Are there even a significant number of Islamic schools in the US?

There's a few I guess... like this one:

But there actually are cases of the few that exist being offered government funding, but they turned it down in protest
I don't consider grants to be the same way of funding as a public school.

Although I'm not a fan of the voucher system so in that way every school is a public school I Suppose. Though that is obviously factually inaccurate.
 
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QvQ

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For Christians, the more LOW quality religious education there is, the more
CONSPIRACY THEORIES will spread in the worst educated Christians, in
America.)
Y'all do realize that Education, universal public education including the education of All, women and minorities, is a Christian Idea.
The Reformer were absolutley commited to everyone, man woman child whatever his or her station was able to read the Bible for themselves.

Almost all our Universities were Originally Religious Institutions.

Perhaps we need to remember that Lincoln's Step Mother taught him to read

And William Bonney, the hoodlum cowboy the early west gunman who downed 21 men by the time he was 21 had beautiful handwriting and could spell very well. Home Schooling?

We need more of that "old time" schooling as Lincoln, William Bonney and the Graduates of early American Universities were extremely well educated poeple for that period in history.
 
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rambot

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Y'all do realize that Education, universal public education including the education of All, women and minorities, is a Christian Idea.
The Reformer were absolutley commited to everyone, man woman child whatever his or her station was able to read the Bible for themselves.

Almost all our Universities were Originally Religious Institutions.

Perhaps we need to remember that Lincoln's Step Mother taught him to read

And William Bonney, the hoodlum cowboy the early west gunman who downed 21 men by the time he was 21 had beautiful handwriting and could spell very well. Home Schooling?

We need more of that "old time" schooling as Lincoln, William Bonney and the Graduates of early American Universities were extremely well educated poeple for that period in history.
Thats great that christians had a HISTORY of it...my guess is that. It may have been easier to control the knowledge coming out of unis back then.


christians need to stop being antagonistic to knowledge and slower to grasp onto conspiratorial silliness
 
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BCP1928

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Thats great that christians had a HISTORY of it...my guess is that. It may have been easier to control the knowledge coming out of unis back then.


christians need to stop being antagonistic to knowledge and slower to grasp onto conspiratorial silliness
The Roman Catholics and other branches of Christianity do have a good tradition of providing liberal arts education. The problem is that right-wing Evangelicals want to lay false claim that heritage as a justification for indoctrinating people with their own narrow sectarian ideology. I went to a Catholic liberal arts college myself which is where I learned enough to oppose the voucher movement and the giving of state funds to the new wave of private religious schools. As a Christian I see it for what it is--a self-serving attempt to grab secular political power.
 
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civilwarbuff

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need to stop being antagonistic to knowledge
Such as belief that a person can change their sex/gender simply because they believe they can?.....that kind of knowledge?
slower to grasp onto conspiratorial silliness
Such as "Trump's 2025" conspiracy?.....even though he has denied it and even publicly disavowed it?......that kind of conspiratorial silliness?

Yeah, I agree with you.
 
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rambot

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Such as belief that a person can change their sex/gender simply because they believe they can?.....that kind of knowledge?
No. Things like climate change and evolution. I wouldn't expect them to get on board with the sex/gender thing, but there's no sensible reason to deny climate change as a threat now.
Such as "Trump's 2025" conspiracy?.....even though he has denied it and even publicly disavowed it?......that kind of conspiratorial silliness?

Yeah, I agree with you.
Little tip: People can say anything at all. IT takes no effort to lie or talk.

I am actually the President of Hungary.

See? It's soooooo easy to say anything you want.

Words mean nothing.

And words mean nothing if actions contradict them. IF we have words and actions, you believe someone's actions over their words. That said, I have no idea what "Trump's 2025" conspiracy is. Do you mean Project 2025?
 
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civilwarbuff

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Little tip: People can say anything at all. IT takes no effort to lie or talk.
Absolutely agree.....hence your comment....
christians need to stop being antagonistic to knowledge and slower to grasp onto conspiratorial silliness
Thank you for your verification.....
 
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rambot

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Absolutely agree.....hence your comment....

Thank you for your verification.....
The behaviour of some christians proves me right.
Masked group marches through Columbus Ohio neighborhood with swastika flags spewing racist and antisemitic phrases
The right wing response is almost exclusively conspiratorial. Not a single right winger in this thread seems to say "Those guys are racist. That's not good.".

Instead it's Palestinians, the government or the left wing.
 
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civilwarbuff

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The behaviour of some christians proves me right.
Masked group marches through Columbus Ohio neighborhood with swastika flags spewing racist and antisemitic phrases
The right wing response is almost exclusively conspiratorial. Not a single right winger in this thread seems to say "Those guys are racist. That's not good.".

Instead it's Palestinians, the government or the left wing.
Never saw the post. Unfortunately it is protected speech so what exactly do you want people to say that hasn't been said before?....or is the poster just trying to provoke people into a response?.....in which case it is better to simply ignore the post or poke fun at it (because of its purpose). Do you think having people here rant and rave about how terrible it is will actually change anything or are you just trying to assuage your own conscience because you are 'brave enough' to call attention to it. Shouting words and waving flags really harms no one. Best to save your outrage for something more significant.
 
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