Musk, Balancing the Budget, and "Americans will Suffer"

Elon has many qualities. But judging from all that is known about him, being sympathetic and empathic are not two of them.
He's known to treat his employee's very badly and to burn through staff at record rates. He may be a genius, but he may also be a jerk. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I could easily see him not being too concerned if his cuts cause suffering.

But, Trump also has a reputation of churning through staff like a combine in a wheat field.
I'm thinking that sooner or later Trump's and Elon's massive egos will clash or Elon's actions will reflect badly on Trump and Trump will fire him.

I mean his comment really just showcased how he has no idea how the federal government works. There is no way to cut that much spending without a) massive changes to Medicare and SS or b) Literally cutting the entire discretionary federal budget and then still implementing massive changes in either ALL income security programs and/or Medicaid. It's in theory possible, but it's a political nonstarter.

I look forward to folks championing this sort of austerity after whining for the last several years about inflation.

iluvatar5150 said:

I look forward to folks championing this sort of austerity after whining for the last several years about inflation.

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Well, inflation won't be a concern. Deflation once the GDP takes a 10% hit over the course of the year on the other hand.

Stephen3141 said:

Musk says Americans will have to face 'hardship' if Trump wins

Trump has said he'll put the tech billionaire in charge of government "efficiency" if elected. That won't be good for Americans' wallets.

www.msnbc.com

If Trump wins the Presidency, then he has said that he will get Elon Musk
to sign on, to make the government "more efficient".

It has been pointed out that dictators of the past have used the same
rhetoric, and this does not mean that they were good financial managers.
Poor financial managers, would also make the american people suffer.

Also, it is noted, that a billionaire like Elon Musk will not suffer, no matter
how the average American might under his "efficiency" moves.

America CANNOT continue to spend money that it is borrowing.
But, that does not mean that every politician who comes along,
promising to make the government more efficient, knows what he
is doing.

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What I like about Trumps approach is that he is thinking outside the box and expanding the way governments think. Rather than towing the party line or following the partisan policies that no one can question which often end up being a waste putting the nation in massive debt.

There is always a better and smarter way to do government business. Musk has proved himself. He has a space program. I mean that was usually the domain of entire governments and nations. Here we have an individual who has achieved something only governments can do.

So he must have some knowledge on structuring government to be better.

All I know is that the current administration has no idea about working out of debt and being enterprising. They will borrow more and devalue the dollar further and weight down the nation with bureaucracy.

Stephen3141 said:

Musk says Americans will have to face 'hardship' if Trump wins

Trump has said he'll put the tech billionaire in charge of government "efficiency" if elected. That won't be good for Americans' wallets.

www.msnbc.com

If Trump wins the Presidency, then he has said that he will get Elon Musk
to sign on, to make the government "more efficient".

It has been pointed out that dictators of the past have used the same
rhetoric, and this does not mean that they were good financial managers.
Poor financial managers, would also make the american people suffer.

Also, it is noted, that a billionaire like Elon Musk will not suffer, no matter
how the average American might under his "efficiency" moves.

America CANNOT continue to spend money that it is borrowing.
But, that does not mean that every politician who comes along,
promising to make the government more efficient, knows what he
is doing.

Click to expand...

Trump and Elon are space buddies. Elon needs lots and lots and lots of money to prepare a mission to Mars. It is imperative that Trump win so that his dream comes to fruition. Yes, Americans will suffer not because Elon wants to balance the budget but will suffer because he needs to fund his pet project. I hope Americans are not that naive.

This is a lot of talk with no substance. Should we look at improving government efficiency? Absolutely. Do we need to cut programs? yes

not sure what Elon or Trump have in mind--Trump didn't do much his first term to reign in government spending and expansion. It then exploded under Biden

Let's look at some scary numbers:

1. Debt-to-GDP ratio: 120% (WWII levels, and twice as high as 20 years ago. It was 115% in first quarter of 2023)
2. Government spending went from 4.4 trillion in 2019 to 6.1 trillion this year
3. Deficits are expected to reach 6.1% in 2034
4. Record debt
5. Social security is insolvent within 5-8 years
6. Medicare is insolvent by 2031

A lot of the debt/deficits are a consequence of entitlement programs, and those cannot be maintained.

the only way any of this is maintained is by printing money, devaluing the currency, etc. That will ultimately lead to the US losing its reserve-currency status, and a potential debt default

before we get to the default, we will see rampant inflation, businesses will suffer, rolling recessions, are more money printing.

Taxing rich people isn't going to fix any of this. If you confiscated all the property of every billionaire in the country it would pay for 6 months of government operations

The only way to really fix this would be very painful in the short-term

a) Halting social security. Giving Americans under a certain age a small amount of money to invest.
b) Raise the retirement age of existing beneficiaries and cutting benefits
c) Implementing a national sales tax, or VAT, to support Medicare (and maybe expand it if possible)
d) Cutting 20% out of the federal budget, including defense

It is that scenario, or rampant inflation, a wrecked stock market, high unemployment, stagflation, and civil unrest.

But Harris and Trump will kick the can down-the-road I suspect. Nothing will be done until there is a massive, existential financial crisis

Merrill said:

But Harris and Trump will kick the can down-the-road I suspect. Nothing will be done until there is a massive, existential financial crisis

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You are probably right. I am interested in seeing how the tariff wars go.

Akita Suggagaki said:

You are probably right. I am interested in seeing how the tariff wars go.

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Trump will use the threats of tariffs as a negotiating chip. His real goal is to get better trade deals with China and other countries.

I don't disagree with that method at all. It makes sense

Widespread tariffs could feed into inflation and raise some consumer prices, but their effects are overstated. We are not living in the 1930s, or even the 1970s. That being said, I am more of a free-market, free-trade guy, and do not want heavy tariffs on everything.

congress will have some input and power here as well. I don't think Trump can just go and slap on tariffs on thousands of goods without pushback.

Stephen3141 said:

Also, it is noted, that a billionaire like Elon Musk will not suffer, no matter
how the average American might under his "efficiency" moves.

America CANNOT continue to spend money that it is borrowing.
But, that does not mean that every politician who comes along,
promising to make the government more efficient, knows what he
is doing.

Click to expand...

Likewise had Harris won, Lizzo, Beyonce, and Taylor Swift would not suffer consequences of Democrat policies.

I expect even Republicans to fight spending cuts. Interesting times await for all.

JustaPewFiller said:

Elon has many qualities. But judging from all that is known about him, being sympathetic and empathic are not two of them.
He's known to treat his employee's very badly and to burn through staff at record rates. He may be a genius, but he may also be a jerk. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I could easily see him not being too concerned if his cuts cause suffering.

But, Trump also has a reputation of churning through staff like a combine in a wheat field.
I'm thinking that sooner or later Trump's and Elon's massive egos will clash or Elon's actions will reflect badly on Trump and Trump will fire him.

Click to expand...

Exactly unless Trump gives him a clear direction and mandate that will consume his time and energy then the two Alphas will probably square off and Trump being the president would win that match and fire Musk. This is where a skilled chief of staff comes in.

The fact is that deficit spending is not sustainable and so the best long-term solution is to cut costs and raise taxes. Ideologically the Republicans cannot raise taxes and so they have to be hard on spending. Since they want to spend more on defense and hopefully space projects this will come from Medicare and welfare. The biggest inefficiencies in the USA spending are in the area of health. Western Europe spends half with better outcomes. To sort that out will bring Trump into conflict with Big Pharma and the health industry also. We will see how much political capital he wants to spend in this area.

I do not understand why so many poor people voted for Trump thinking he would improve their lot. He has no instinct for redistribution and he and Musk model a hire-and-fire culture that hits workers hardest.

Doomsday predictions.

mindlight said:

I do not understand why so many poor people voted for Trump thinking he would improve their lot. He has no instinct for redistribution and he and Musk model a hire-and-fire culture that hits workers

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Most working class, and some poor; are not looking at the government as a piggy bank to help themselves from. Most like and respect work; and want opportunity, not redistribution.