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At what exact moment did/will the Old Covenant disappear/vanish away?

tonychanyt

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Hebrews 8:

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
For some Christians, the old covenant disappeared when Rome destroyed the temple in 70 AD. However, Jesus said in Matthew 5:

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
When will the old covenant disappear?

For some Jews, it is probably after the last day when God recreates the heavens and earth.

I believe the old covenant is becoming obsolete.
 

Spiritual Jew

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Hebrews 8:


For some Christians, the old covenant disappeared when Rome destroyed the temple in 70 AD. However, Jesus said in Matthew 5:


When will the old covenant disappear?

For some Jews, it is probably after the last day when God recreates the heavens and earth.

I believe the old covenant is becoming obsolete.
Sorry, but I completely disagree. How can the old covenant possibly still be in effect? We are under grace now, not under the law. The old covenant was made obsolete by the death of Christ on the cross when He established the new covenant.

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Do you not think that Jesus established the new covenant when He died and rose again? Scripture says He did. So, how could the old covenant still be in effect at that point? The new covenant of grace replaced the old covenant law and its burdensome rituals.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This passage indicates that Jesus nailed the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" to the cross. It set people free from being under the curse of the law any longer and they were instead under grace.

You say you think the old covenant is becoming obsolete, but scripture says it was made obsolete long ago.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

It specifically says "he has made the first one obsolete". It was already obsolete before that verse was written, so how can it be said that it's still becoming obsolete? The animal sacrifices and offerings of the old covenant were certainly obsolete after Christ made His once for all sacrifice. The purpose of the old covenant animal sacrifices was only to foreshadow Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:1-12). So, once Christ made His sacrifice there was no purpose for animal sacrifices anymore.

When Hebrews 8:13 talks about the old covenant soon disappearing it's not talking about it becoming obsolete. It already said that it was made obsolete. So, whatever it disappearing means is something different than it being made obsolete. I believe that is simply talking about the fact that any traces of the old covenant, such as the temple where the old covenant animal sacrifices were made would soon disappear. And that is exactly what happened when the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. But, that was not when the old covenant was made obsolete, as preterists try to argue. No, it was made obsolete by the shed blood of Christ that established the better new covenant.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Can you quote the words I asserted that? Note the bold.
If it's becoming obsolete, then it's not obsolete yet, right? If it's not obsolete but is still in the process of becoming obsolete, is it not still in effect? Maybe we need to define our terms here. What do you think it means for the old covenant to be obsolete and what does it mean for it to disappear? To me, for it to be obsolete means it is no longer in effect and people are no longer obligated to be under the old covenant law because we're under the new covenant of grace now. I already explained what I think it means for it to disappear (no traces of it after the destruction of the temple).
 
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tonychanyt

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If it's becoming obsolete, then it's not obsolete yet, right?
Right.

If it's not obsolete but is still in the process of becoming obsolete, is it not still in effect?
Yes, to some and no to others.

Maybe we need to define our terms here.
Right.

What do you think it means for the old covenant to be obsolete and what does it mean for it to disappear?
Good question.

It is still applicable to those who believe in the old covenant. When the new heavens and earth appear, it will be obsolete for everyone, and the debate about the old covenant will disappear. It will become a non-issue.

To me, for it to be obsolete means it is no longer in effect and people are no longer obligated to be under the old covenant law because we're under the new covenant of grace now. I already explained what I think it means for it to disappear (no traces of it after the destruction of the temple).
That's sensible. Unfortunately, not everyone believes that, but the time will come.
 
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eleos1954

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Hebrews 8:


For some Christians, the old covenant disappeared when Rome destroyed the temple in 70 AD. However, Jesus said in Matthew 5:


When will the old covenant disappear?

For some Jews, it is probably after the last day when God recreates the heavens and earth.

I believe the old covenant is becoming obsolete.
The "new covenant" is no more than a renewed commitment to abide by God's laws. His laws are eternal laws and are forever. They have always been and will always be.

The very definition of sin is transgression of the law. Transgression of the law started in heaven with lucifer and the 1/3 and then introduced through Adam and Eve on planet earth. God does not ... never has wanted His created beings to sin (transgression of the law) ... yet all do. He gave all His created beings choice. You can't have true love without choice .... love is not and can not be a forced issue else it's not love.

God is love.

His law/love stands forever.
 
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Diamond72

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When will the old covenant disappear?
When there is a new heaven and a new earth. The law of Moses is still a testimony for God.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This verse states, "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses".

Deuteronomy 17:6
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses
 
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