• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

God or man: According to the biblical Sabbath, who gave us the date line?

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Brothers and sisters, since writing my book, which is on my website, I have gathered more evidence about the true Sabbath in the Bible in the story of the manna, and in the book of Hebrews, chapter 4. Since my recent experience sharing my book at work and having someone buy it at the Apple Store, I am thinking about writing a new book. This is my preliminary cover. What do you all think about the book and this possible cover?

cover.png


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Last edited:

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
When the Sabbath is corrected from Jewish tradition since "Joshua", we come to the understanding that God established the Date Line on the earth when He taught us to count the days, with the week. In Hebrews, chapter 4, the person responsible for this human tradition is given by the name "Joshua", the leader after Moses who led Israel into the promised land. To be clear, Joshua got the days of the week wrong because of the given earlier Sabbath to keep in the promised land after manna. The manna for 40 years showed when the days of the week begin and end, which is later than the earlier Sabbath that was given to keep after manna in Jerusalem. Joshua thought this earlier Sabbath was the new seventh day of the week when God was not changing the days of the week when He gave Israel an earlier Sabbath to keep in the promised land after the manna stopped falling. God was making changes to when to start the year, but not to the days of the week. The true biblical understanding of the Sabbath is that God established the Sabbath in the time zone of creation, in Eden. Everywhere else, as here in the United Sates, it falls somewhere between Friday and Saturday. In Jerusalem, the Sabbath falls in the middle of those two days, occupying the second half of Friday and the first half of Saturday.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,781
12,118
Georgia
✟1,153,459.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Brothers and sisters, since writing my book, which is on my website, I have gathered more evidence about the true Sabbath in the Bible in the story of the manna,
Good thing both Jews and Christians around the world - know what day of the week that seventh day was...

No sense in ignoring the obvious.

Sometimes the "easy part" is where some people get into mistakes.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Good thing both Jews and Christians around the world - know what day of the week that seventh day was...
No sense in ignoring the obvious.
Sometimes the "easy part" is where some people get into mistakes.
Brother, we tend to simplify what is more complicated. As far back as 1953, some of our people understood that from evening to morning is the period that God called "night" and that the days in Genesis begin in the “morning”, having ended in the “morning”. This fact is stated in our SDA Bible commentary written from 1953 to 1957, found online. I highlight the end of the second paragraph in its comment on verse 5 of chapter 1 of Genesis. While it is true that the first "evening" preceded the first "morning" written by the commentator dismissing what others were seeing, what is not said is that you cannot have an "evening" without having light first. What was before the light was "darkness" and not "evening". Those are different words that are not interchangeable.

Some have thought creative act lasted one night, from the evening to the morning; and others, that every day began with the morning, although the inspired Record states plainly that the evening preceded the morning. (SDA Bible Commentary, found online)​

The following video recently shows that I am not the only one who sees that the days of the week are from morning to morning in the Bible.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
5,001
2,376
90
Union County, TN
✟855,003.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Something to ponder for those who insist we must observe a day.

God established the dateline at Sinai. Man moved it to the Pacific Ocean. Now the day starts at the dateline in the Pacific rather than where it was given. Does God and all Heavenly beings keep the Sabbath with all Sabbath observers? If so they are spending 48 hours resting. And at what point does God and the Heavenly beings begin the Sabbath? Since the day begins at the dateline is that where God starts Hi Sabbath or because He doesn't change does He start it at Sinai?
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
God established the dateline at Sinai.
Brother, God established the dateline set at creation when He taught Adam and Eve to count the days, with the week. The Sabbath in Jerusalem that Jesus kept from evening to evening with the correction of human Jewish tradition from Joshua about the days of the week that were wrong reveals a dateline set by God from the beginning in Genesis on the other side of the world from Jerusalem. The seventh day of the week, corrected from human tradition since Joshua, is later to the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem from evening to evening, being a later seventh-day as it was with the manna for 40 years from morning to morning. Here is the manna evidence presented by others, which I can explain if you are having trouble understanding the manna story revealing the morning to morning days of the week in the video.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
5,001
2,376
90
Union County, TN
✟855,003.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Brother, God established the dateline set at creation when He taught Adam and Eve to count the days, with the week. The Sabbath in Jerusalem that Jesus kept from evening to evening with the correction of human Jewish tradition from Joshua about the days of the week that were wrong reveals a dateline set by God from the beginning in Genesis on the other side of the world from Jerusalem. The seventh day of the week, corrected from human tradition since Joshua, is later to the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem from evening to evening, being a later seventh-day as it was with the manna for 40 years from morning to morning. Here is the manna evidence presented by others, which I can explain if you are having trouble understanding the manna story revealing the morning to morning days of the week in the video.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
According to scripture, God didn't require anyone to observe the Sabbath until after the Israelites crossed the Red Sea. It was then that God established the special day for Israel. Certainly, after the Israelites escaped Egypt there is no mention of God stopping them from observing the Sabbath in their escape until they were safe from the Egyptians.

If Sabbath was/is so very important why didn't God have the Israelites stop on their flight out of bondage?​

 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
If Sabbath was/is so very important why didn't God have the Israelites stop on their flight out of bondage?
Brother, for the same reason, Jesus did not tell us everything that He would tell us through the prophets by means of the Holy Spirit. People could not “bear” it! People still can't "bear" the truth about the Sabbath.

There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
No sense in ignoring the obvious.
Brother, what is obvious is the days of the week are from morning to morning from our International Date Line (IDL), which is what the Bible reveals from the beginning. The days of the week begin in the morning and not in the evening as God has been telling us from the beginning in Genesis. God has been telling us the proper cycle of the day since the beginning, which God confirmed to Israel in the story of the manna for 40 years in the desert, while also giving Israel an earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem than the seventh day. Joshua misunderstood this earlier Sabbath as a change in the start of the day, as God had changed the start of the year, when that was not the correct view of the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem. The Book of Hebrews, chapter 4, tells us that Israel's mistaken view of the days of the week because of this earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem began with Joshua, who led Israel into the promised land after Moses.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

The red line in the image below indicates the Biblical date-line, opposite Jerusalem, consistent with the location of the IDL. Evidence obtained in the morning in Jerusalem on a Friday confirms the days begin in the morning: Friday in Japan and Thursday in Los Angeles shows that the days begin in the morning just as the Bible consistently tells us from the beginning. The forward direction from Thursday to Friday sampled in Los Angeles and Japan as the sun rises in Jerusalem confirms the days begin in the morning and not in the evening as shown in the image.

North.png


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,326
2,564
56
Northeast
✟257,026.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When the Sabbath is corrected from Jewish tradition since "Joshua", we come to the understanding that God established the Date Line on the earth when He taught us to count the days, with the week. In Hebrews, chapter 4, the person responsible for this human tradition is given by the name "Joshua", the leader after Moses who led Israel into the promised land. To be clear, Joshua got the days of the week wrong because of the given earlier Sabbath to keep in the promised land after manna. The manna for 40 years showed when the days of the week begin and end, which is later than the earlier Sabbath that was given to keep after manna in Jerusalem. Joshua thought this earlier Sabbath was the new seventh day of the week when God was not changing the days of the week when He gave Israel an earlier Sabbath to keep in the promised land after the manna stopped falling. God was making changes to when to start the year, but not to the days of the week. The true biblical understanding of the Sabbath is that God established the Sabbath in the time zone of creation, in Eden. Everywhere else, as here in the United Sates, it falls somewhere between Friday and Saturday. In Jerusalem, the Sabbath falls in the middle of those two days, occupying the second half of Friday and the first half of Saturday.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
guevaraj, my man, good to see you again :heart:

Which date line did God establish in your view? My understanding is that it changes over time. Like, Alaska moved from one side to the other when it changed from Russia to the USA.
 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Which date line did God establish in your view? My understanding is that it changes over time. Like, Alaska moved from one side to the other when it changed from Russia to the USA.
Brother, the biblical date line, longitude 146.8º W, is the solid line to the right of the dash line that meanders in the opening post image as island governments have switched sides on the date line to favor trade with other nations. A recent example is Samoa, where the government removed a day from the calendar to switch sides on the international date line. There were Seventh-day Adventists in Samoa who found themselves going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday. They went to church on the old Saturday, which was the new Sunday, due to the removal of a day from the calendar, because they did not believe their government had the authority to change their weekly cycle for the Sabbath. The church now believes the best course of action is to follow what the government decides in Samoa when I know we need to follow God's true dateline.

In 2011, Samoa shifted back to the west side of the IDL by removing Friday, 30 December 2011 from its calendar. This changed the time zone from UTC−11:00 to UTC+13:00 (UTC-10 to UTC+14 Dst ). Samoa made the change because Australia and New Zealand have become its biggest trading partners, and also have large communities of expatriates. Being 21 hours behind made business difficult because having weekends on backward days meant only four days of the week were shared workdays. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Date_Line)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Leaf473
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,326
2,564
56
Northeast
✟257,026.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Brother, the biblical date line, longitude 146.8º W, is the solid line to the right of the dash line that meanders in the opening post image as island governments have switched sides on the date line to favor trade with other nations. A recent example is Samoa, where the government removed a day from the calendar to switch sides on the international date line. There were Seventh-day Adventists in Samoa who found themselves going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday. They went to church on the old Saturday, which was the new Sunday, due to the removal of a day from the calendar, because they did not believe their government had the authority to change their weekly cycle for the Sabbath. The church now believes the best course of action is to follow what the government decides in Samoa when I know we need to follow God's true dateline.

In 2011, Samoa shifted back to the west side of the IDL by removing Friday, 30 December 2011 from its calendar. This changed the time zone from UTC−11:00 to UTC+13:00 (UTC-10 to UTC+14 Dst ). Samoa made the change because Australia and New Zealand have become its biggest trading partners, and also have large communities of expatriates. Being 21 hours behind made business difficult because having weekends on backward days meant only four days of the week were shared workdays. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Date_Line)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Thanks for the information, brother ❤️ 146.8 W is on the other side of the world from the Holy Land?

 
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the information, brother ❤️ 146.8 W is on the other side of the world from the Holy Land?
Brother, yes! God has been telling us the proper cycle of the day since the beginning, which God confirmed to Israel in the story of the manna for 40 years in the desert, while also giving Israel an earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem than the seventh day.


I can see how Joshua could misunderstand this earlier Sabbath as a change in the start of the day, as God had changed the start of the year, when that was not the correct view of the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem. The Book of Hebrews, chapter 4, tells us that Israel's mistaken view of the days of the week because of this earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem began with Joshua, who led Israel into the promised land after Moses.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

The red line in the image below indicates the Biblical date-line, opposite Jerusalem, consistent with the location of the IDL. Evidence obtained in the morning in Jerusalem on a Friday confirms the days begin in the morning: Friday in Japan and Thursday in Los Angeles shows that the days begin in the morning just as the Bible consistently tells us from the beginning. The forward direction from Thursday to Friday sampled in Los Angeles and Japan as the sun rises in Jerusalem confirms the days begin in the morning and not in the evening as shown in the image.

north-png.354026


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Leaf473
Upvote 0

guevaraj

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins
Site Supporter
Mar 31, 2019
2,391
189
54
South Bend, IN
Visit site
✟743,622.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Sometimes the "easy part" is where some people get into mistakes.
Brother, there is a person I have been sharing this evidence with at work who I believe shows the importance of this evidence in helping people escape from false prophets who want to lead us in a different direction than what God has been saying all along.

I have heard that in order to defend the Quran as better than the Bible, it is said that the Bible is corrupted because it has been touched by too many human hands.

The evidence I have found that the days of the week are from morning to morning since creation and not from evening to evening, with the Sabbath falling earlier in Jerusalem than the seventh day of the week, shows that God has been with us from the beginning by being the one who gave us the Date Line, and that God is in control of His word by telling us something from the beginning unknown to humans that He has used through inspiration to give us His word, until now in these last days to unite us by His truth.

This evidence shows God's inspiration is revealed in His word from the beginning as superior to the humans He has used to give us His word. Vindicating God's use of so many prophets from the argument used to defend the Quran when God chose to show us His inspiration by giving us His word through many prophets since Moses and not just one in the Quran.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
Upvote 0