• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

When they saw him, they worshiped, but THEY [οἱ δὲ] doubted

tonychanyt

24/7 Christian
Oct 2, 2011
6,061
2,239
Toronto
Visit site
✟196,630.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
ESV, Mt 14:

15 Now when it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the day is now over; send the crowds away to go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” 16 But
ὁ δὲ

ὁ was the singular article nominative.

δὲ was a conjunction "but" or "and" depending on the context. Here, Jesus contrasted their thinking.

Jesus said, “They need not go away; you give them something to eat.” 17 They [οἱ δὲ] said to him, “We have only five loaves here and two fish.”
οἱ is the plural article nominative. The subject "they" was not in the Greek. It was implied by the verb "said" and the nominative article οἱ. Here, ESV didn't translate δὲ. The disciples, in turn, contrasted Jesus' request.

οἱ δὲ was sometimes used as the subject marker to identify a subgroup. It could be translated as "But some". On Biblehub, none of the versions used "some". The δὲ-contrast applied to Jesus' statement, not to the subject article οἱ. The disciples collectively believed that they didn't have enough food to feed the multitude.

Some months later, the temple guards brought Jesus before Caiaphas and the council in Mt 26:

65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. 66 What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.” 67 Then they spit in his face and struck him. And some [οἱ δὲ] slapped him, 68 saying, “Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?”
οἱ δὲ specified a subgroup or a small group of separate individuals.

NIV:

Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him
On Biblehub, 13 versions used "some"; 17 used "others"; 0 used "they".

After the resurrection, Mt 28:

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some [οἱ δὲ] doubted.
On Biblehub, 29 versions used "some"; only NAB used "they".

οἱ δὲ could refer to "they", or "some", or "others" depending on the context.
 

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,671
2,887
MI
✟450,309.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
ESV, Mt 14:


ὁ δὲ

ὁ was the singular article nominative.

δὲ was a conjunction "but" or "and" depending on the context. Here, Jesus contrasted their thinking.


οἱ is the plural article nominative. The subject "they" was not in the Greek. It was implied by the verb "said" and the nominative article οἱ. Here, ESV didn't translate δὲ. The disciples, in turn, contrasted Jesus' request.

οἱ δὲ was sometimes used as the subject marker to identify a subgroup. It could be translated as "But some". On Biblehub, none of the versions used "some". The δὲ-contrast applied to Jesus' statement, not to the subject article οἱ. The disciples collectively believed that they didn't have enough food to feed the multitude.

Some months later, the temple guards brought Jesus before Caiaphas and the council in Mt 26:


οἱ δὲ specified a subgroup or a small group of separate individuals.

NIV:


On Biblehub, 13 versions used "some"; 17 used "others"; 0 used "they".

After the resurrection, Mt 28:


On Biblehub, 29 versions used "some"; only NAB used "they".

οἱ δὲ could refer to "they", or "some", or "others" depending on the context.
It seems that some of the disciples had more faith than others. Obviously, Thomas was one who struggled with his faith. It seems quite unlikely that they all doubted, so I think saying "some doubted" is fine.
 
Upvote 0