Why Are Working-Age Men Leaving the Workforce? Immigration Sheds Light on Issue, Expert Says

Vambram · Sep 28, 2024

The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

oversight.house.gov

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Here’s How Much Your Rent Has Gone Up Due to Illegal Immigration, Expert Says

Camarota said the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale, and it has affected the cost of housing.

www.dailysignal.com

The illegal immigration crisis at the southern border has not only created a culture of lawlessness at the Southern border, it has also adversely affected the labor and housing markets.
That’s according to the testimony of Center for Immigration Studies director of research Steven Camarota at a hearing of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs on Wednesday, “The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos.”
Camarota said at the hearing that the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale. He said that a recent report by the House Judiciary Committee found that at least “5.6 million illegal immigrants have been released into the country since January of 2021.”
In addition, he said, there were an estimated 1.7 million “got-aways,” who were never apprehended from fiscal years 2021 to 2023.
Camarota said that the enormous amount of illegal immigration has consequences for housing and labor markets. For one thing, the increased demand for housing drives up prices.
“My own analysis suggests that a 5-percentage-point increase in the share of a community [comprising] recent immigrants will cause a 12% increase in what the average U.S.-born household pays for rent,” he said. In addition to the increased housing cost for American families, Camarota said that there’s a significant fiscal and societal cost to bringing in illegal immigrants at such a large scale.
“Using estimates by the National Academy of Sciences, we calculate that the lifetime fiscal drain considering all the taxes an illegal immigrant may pay, and all the services and costs they would create, is about $68,000 per illegal immigrant, or if you like, $68 billion for each 1 million illegal immigrants,” Camarota said. This net drain is due to the “modest education levels” of most illegal immigrants. He said that nearly 80% of them have no education beyond high school, double the share of U.S. born citizens.
The result is generally low incomes, low tax payments, and high use of public services, Camarota said, qualifying that statement by saying that most illegal immigrants aren’t lazy and aren’t coming for welfare. Instead, this “simply reflects what happens when you add large numbers of less-educated people who have modest incomes to a modern economy that spends a lot on social services,” he explained to the House panel.

Palmfever · Sep 28, 2024

Vambram said:
The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

oversight.house.gov

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Here’s How Much Your Rent Has Gone Up Due to Illegal Immigration, Expert Says

Camarota said the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale, and it has affected the cost of housing.

www.dailysignal.com

The illegal immigration crisis at the southern border has not only created a culture of lawlessness at the Southern border, it has also adversely affected the labor and housing markets.
That’s according to the testimony of Center for Immigration Studies director of research Steven Camarota at a hearing of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs on Wednesday, “The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos.”
Camarota said at the hearing that the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale. He said that a recent report by the House Judiciary Committee found that at least “5.6 million illegal immigrants have been released into the country since January of 2021.”
In addition, he said, there were an estimated 1.7 million “got-aways,” who were never apprehended from fiscal years 2021 to 2023.
Camarota said that the enormous amount of illegal immigration has consequences for housing and labor markets. For one thing, the increased demand for housing drives up prices.
“My own analysis suggests that a 5-percentage-point increase in the share of a community [comprising] recent immigrants will cause a 12% increase in what the average U.S.-born household pays for rent,” he said. In addition to the increased housing cost for American families, Camarota said that there’s a significant fiscal and societal cost to bringing in illegal immigrants at such a large scale.
“Using estimates by the National Academy of Sciences, we calculate that the lifetime fiscal drain considering all the taxes an illegal immigrant may pay, and all the services and costs they would create, is about $68,000 per illegal immigrant, or if you like, $68 billion for each 1 million illegal immigrants,” Camarota said. This net drain is due to the “modest education levels” of most illegal immigrants. He said that nearly 80% of them have no education beyond high school, double the share of U.S. born citizens.
The result is generally low incomes, low tax payments, and high use of public services, Camarota said, qualifying that statement by saying that most illegal immigrants aren’t lazy and aren’t coming for welfare. Instead, this “simply reflects what happens when you add large numbers of less-educated people who have modest incomes to a modern economy that spends a lot on social services,” he explained to the House panel.

Read this just this morning on new york post then found it on a lib site for those would dismiss the veracity of the article for being from the post.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/28/immigrants-ice-report-thirteen-thousand-homicide-us-border-migration.html

rambot · Sep 29, 2024

Vambram said:
“My own analysis suggests that a 5-percentage-point increase in the share of a community [comprising] recent immigrants will cause a 12% increase in what the average U.S.-born household pays for rent,” he said.

I am very suspect of this number though I am curious.

Has this been historically true? Because the unprecedented nature of corporations buying property and the well known affect of AI like Yieldstar, unless this is a historical consistent outcome, I'm not convinced thwre is causality.

Vambram · Sep 29, 2024

rambot said:
I am very suspect of this number though I am curious.

Has this been historically true? Because the unprecedented nature of corporations buying property and the well known affect of AI like Yieldstar, unless this is a historical consistent outcome, I'm not convinced thwre is causality.

That is a very good question, and I don't know the answer to it.

RocksInMyHead · Sep 29, 2024

rambot said:
I am very suspect of this number though I am curious.

Has this been historically true? Because the unprecedented nature of corporations buying property and the well known affect of AI like Yieldstar, unless this is a historical consistent outcome, I'm not convinced thwre is causality.

It's not that far-fetched when you consider that there's already a housing shortage. A relatively rapid influx of people is going to put pressure on the market, no matter how you slice it.

I don't think that there's necessarily going to be much historical correlation though.

keith99 · Sep 29, 2024

Note the title.

Center for Immigration Studies is an anti immigration think tank and any news site citing them is going to be very sure that they do not present the claims as fact, just as something someone claims.

rambot · Sep 29, 2024

RocksInMyHead said:
It's not that far-fetched when you consider that there's already a housing shortage.

Yes but part again, I'd wager corporations play a role in that too.

RocksInMyHead said:
A relatively rapid influx of people is going to put pressure on the market, no matter how you slice it.

To some extent, I'd agree. It would depend on the numbers. In Springfield's case I 100% understand that prop. values would increase.

RocksInMyHead said:
I don't think that there's necessarily going to be much historical correlation though.

rambot · Sep 29, 2024

Camarota concluded that reducing illegal immigration would force the country to finally deal with that crisis.

Being able to recognize the "kinks" in the free market system that can lead to trouble, is another HUGELY important task. Because illegal immigration ain't gonna raise those wages naturally.

Vambram · Sep 29, 2024

keith99 said:
Note the title.

Center for Immigration Studies is an anti immigration think tank and any news site citing them is going to be very sure that they do not present the claims as fact, just as something someone claims.

That is a fair point, which is why I also included the youtube video of their testimony before a Congressional committee.

bèlla · Sep 29, 2024

What does this have to do with working age men leaving the workforce? That was happening long before the border crisis and I posted a video yesterday that explained it.

~bella

rambot · Sep 29, 2024

bèlla said:
What does this have to do with working age men leaving the workforce? That was happening long before the border crisis and I posted a video yesterday that explained it.

~bella

I also, kinda missed that in the op's article...

Vambram · Sep 29, 2024

bèlla said:
What does this have to do with working age men leaving the workforce? That was happening long before the border crisis and I posted a video yesterday that explained it.

~bella

Thank you for an interesting video. One of the comments about that youtube video makes a good point. "Here's the deal. My household brings in a decently above average income, has 2 STEM degrees, and has been SAVING for 3 years, having no vices like smoking or drinking, never been in a legal situation, have not been on any vac. trips or living a luxury life, and only have student debt....we still can NOT AFFORD a starter home....Why would they want to work 10X harder than our parent/grandparents to be able to own nothing?!?!"

bèlla · Sep 29, 2024

Vambram said:
Thank you for an interesting video. One of the comments about that youtube video makes a good point. "Here's the deal. My household brings in a decently above average income, has 2 STEM degrees, and has been SAVING for 3 years, having no vices like smoking or drinking, never been in a legal situation, have not been on any vac. trips or living a luxury life, and only have student debt....we still can NOT AFFORD a starter home....Why would they want to work 10X harder than our parent/grandparents to be able to own nothing?!?!"

The problem in that scenario isn't their education or aptitude nor the economy or cost of housing though many would cite the pair. They're struggling because they work in a field that doesn't reward their credentials. When that's the case you have three options.

Join a project to gain experience in a related area and leverage it for an advancement.
Start a side hustle or a business.
Move into a more lucrative industry.

They need to make more money and they'll have the income they lack to afford a home and do the things they enjoy. The goal (i.e. $number) determines the work. Not the reverse. Most people choose careers in the hope they'll fund the life they want. Instead of calculating the cost and determining the path that will meet their expenses.

~bella

iluvatar5150 · Sep 30, 2024

Vambram said:
Thank you for an interesting video. One of the comments about that youtube video makes a good point. "Here's the deal. My household brings in a decently above average income, has 2 STEM degrees, and has been SAVING for 3 years, having no vices like smoking or drinking, never been in a legal situation, have not been on any vac. trips or living a luxury life, and only have student debt....we still can NOT AFFORD a starter home....Why would they want to work 10X harder than our parent/grandparents to be able to own nothing?!?!"

While it may be that illegal immigration provides some non-zero amount of pressure on the housing market, I'm pretty skeptical that the effect extends much above the bottom of the market. Having more poor people in the market doesn't increase the number of folks able to spend $600k+ on a house. I'm looking at Springfield, OH on Redfin and, despite having their entire population increase by ~30% in the last few years, I'm still seeing loads of houses under $150k and plenty of rents under $1000/mo.

It's easy to blame immigrants, when much of the demand is coming from higher up the income ladder.

Laodicean60 · Sep 30, 2024

rambot said:
Yes but part again, I'd wager corporations play a role in that too.

To some extent, I'd agree. It would depend on the numbers. In Springfield's case I 100% understand that prop. values would increase.

I believe too that corporations have a role in it. If you have an American wanting $10 an hour and someone that will accept $7.25 an hour who do you think will be hired, it's smart business. On the flipside with an influx of people, there is less competition for jobs. The whole problem with worker's pay is not enough jobs to create a competitive labor market. We saw after the lockdowns worker's pay went up because companies were competing for employees.

Men typically are lazy now that women have joined the workforce we take advantage of it. While I'm on this computer my wife does everything like housework, caring for the kids, shopping, and more.... I only do things when I have to like fix something or mow the lawn and I put that off till the wife nags me about it. Reminds me of a lion chilling under a tree and the females are out hunting and caring for the young. I blame our animal instincts.

Larniavc · Sep 30, 2024

Vambram said:
Thank you for an interesting video. One of the comments about that youtube video makes a good point. "Here's the deal. My household brings in a decently above average income, has 2 STEM degrees, and has been SAVING for 3 years, having no vices like smoking or drinking, never been in a legal situation, have not been on any vac. trips or living a luxury life, and only have student debt....we still can NOT AFFORD a starter home....Why would they want to work 10X harder than our parent/grandparents to be able to own nothing?!?!"

The problem is fundamentally the action of capitalism extract the maximum profit (in the case higher house prices) from the market.

The problems of not being able to afford a house is very real and immigration is a component but it is a minor component to corporate/government corruption and the fundamentals of late stage capitalism.

bèlla · Sep 30, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
I believe too that corporations have a role in it.

A fair bit of the housing supply is being gobbled up by corporations. Look at The Blackstone Group and you'll enter the rabbit hole. This has a related impact on prices and we're not building affordable homes. It's suggested we'll become a nation of renters in a few years. The budget deficits due to migrants will force states to raise taxes. You can see the domino effect.

Laodicean60 said:
Men typically are lazy now that women have joined the workforce we take advantage of it.

That's why they're falling behind. One of the reasons the digital space has been so lucrative for women and allowed them to leave their jobs and work from home is because of that factor. Women have a thirst for knowledge and are more likely to spend time learning something new and building communities.

Inside one of the first all-female hacker houses in San Francisco

“A hacker house is a shared living space where builders and innovators come together to work on their own projects while collaborating with others,” said Jennifer Li, General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz and sponsor of the HackHer House. “It’s a community that thrives on creativity and resource sharing, making it a cost-effective solution for those in high-rent areas like Silicon Valley, where talented founders and engineers can easily connect and support each other.”

“We’re trying to break stereotypes here,” said Garg, 21, a rising senior at Stanford University. “This house isn’t just about living together; it’s about creating a community where women can thrive in tech.” Located in North Beach, HackHer House was home this summer to seven women, all of whom share the goal of launching successful ventures in tech.

You'll see more examples like this in the near future. I saw a commercial last year with four friends who pooled their resources to buy a house and they were women. The gap will widen and many will be left behind.

~bella

Larniavc · Sep 30, 2024

Vambram said:
The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

oversight.house.gov

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Here’s How Much Your Rent Has Gone Up Due to Illegal Immigration, Expert Says

Camarota said the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale, and it has affected the cost of housing.

www.dailysignal.com

The illegal immigration crisis at the southern border has not only created a culture of lawlessness at the Southern border, it has also adversely affected the labor and housing markets.
That’s according to the testimony of Center for Immigration Studies director of research Steven Camarota at a hearing of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs on Wednesday, “The Border Crisis: The Cost of Chaos.”
Camarota said at the hearing that the amount of illegal immigration in recent years has been “unprecedented” in scale. He said that a recent report by the House Judiciary Committee found that at least “5.6 million illegal immigrants have been released into the country since January of 2021.”
In addition, he said, there were an estimated 1.7 million “got-aways,” who were never apprehended from fiscal years 2021 to 2023.
Camarota said that the enormous amount of illegal immigration has consequences for housing and labor markets. For one thing, the increased demand for housing drives up prices.
“My own analysis suggests that a 5-percentage-point increase in the share of a community [comprising] recent immigrants will cause a 12% increase in what the average U.S.-born household pays for rent,” he said. In addition to the increased housing cost for American families, Camarota said that there’s a significant fiscal and societal cost to bringing in illegal immigrants at such a large scale.
“Using estimates by the National Academy of Sciences, we calculate that the lifetime fiscal drain considering all the taxes an illegal immigrant may pay, and all the services and costs they would create, is about $68,000 per illegal immigrant, or if you like, $68 billion for each 1 million illegal immigrants,” Camarota said. This net drain is due to the “modest education levels” of most illegal immigrants. He said that nearly 80% of them have no education beyond high school, double the share of U.S. born citizens.
The result is generally low incomes, low tax payments, and high use of public services, Camarota said, qualifying that statement by saying that most illegal immigrants aren’t lazy and aren’t coming for welfare. Instead, this “simply reflects what happens when you add large numbers of less-educated people who have modest incomes to a modern economy that spends a lot on social services,” he explained to the House panel.

So why are working age men leaving the workforce?

wing2000 · Sep 30, 2024

Larniavc said:
So why are working age men leaving the workforce?

bèlla said:
What does this have to do with working age men leaving the workforce? That was happening long before the border crisis and I posted a video yesterday that explained it.

~bella

...the video offers some interesting insights.

wing2000 · Sep 30, 2024

I don't know why so many young men are choosing to leave the workforce....and not even looking for work or studying a skill that is valued in today's economy. I recognize today's generation faces more challenges that I did, with the increasing cost of living, etc.

...we ahve raised two sons (born in the 90's):

One works in the service industry, has learned new skills and does well with one full time (independent contractor) and 1 part time job (though the lack of full healthcare benefits and affordable housing is concerning). The other is currently earning his Masters degree in the medical field.. While they both took different paths, and have different skill levels, they share common values: both entered the work force when they were in high school and earned their own money (service jobs)...and supported their own purchases -- i.e. first car, etc. As parents, we taught them to be independent, understand the value of work and be responsible for their choices. In essence, my wife and I passed on the values instilled in us by our own parents.

Why Are Working-Age Men Leaving the Workforce? Immigration Sheds Light on Issue, Expert Says

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