Why Trump Can’t Shake Project 2025

wing2000 · Sep 22, 2024

Ezra Klein sums up Trump's conundrum with Project 2025 well:

"The MAGA coalition — particularly its elected officials and Washington staffer class — has grown beyond Trump. It has more views on more issues than he does. It has absorbed more specific and unusual ideologies than he has. It is more hostile to abortion than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. It is more committed to deregulating health insurance than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. There is a great gap between the MAGA leader who slept with a porn star and the factions in the MAGA movement that want to outlaw pornography, as Roberts proposed on Project 2025’s first page.

Trumpism is whatever Trump says it is, but MAGA is whatever his movement becomes. This is why JD Vance has been a political liability to Trump’s campaign: Vance represents MAGA as it has evolved — esoterically ideological, deeply resentful, terminally online — unleavened by Trump’s instincts for showmanship and the winds of public sentiment. It is telling that it is Vance, not Trump, who wrote a glowing forward to Roberts’s forthcoming book. Trump is where MAGA started, but Vance and Roberts is where it is going."

Opinion | The MAGA Movement Has Become a Problem for Trump

He can no longer run as if he were a man alone.

www.nytimes.com

iluvatar5150 · Sep 22, 2024

Something I think a lot of folks around here fail to appreciate:

The presidency is not one man, Diet Coke in hand, Fox & Friends on TV, barking orders. It’s 4,000-or-so political appointees — nearer to 50,000 if Trump again uses Schedule F powers to strip civil-service protections from vast swaths of the federal government — trying to do what they think the president wants them to do or what they think needs to be done. They do that by setting policy for the more than two million civilian employees of the federal government and by writing regulations that the rest of society must follow.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 22, 2024

wing2000 said:
Ezra Klein sums up Trump's conundrum with Project 2025 well:

"The MAGA coalition — particularly its elected officials and Washington staffer class — has grown beyond Trump. It has more views on more issues than he does. It has absorbed more specific and unusual ideologies than he has. It is more hostile to abortion than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. It is more committed to deregulating health insurance than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. There is a great gap between the MAGA leader who slept with a porn star and the factions in the MAGA movement that want to outlaw pornography, as Roberts proposed on Project 2025’s first page.

Trumpism is whatever Trump says it is, but MAGA is whatever his movement becomes. This is why JD Vance has been a political liability to Trump’s campaign: Vance represents MAGA as it has evolved — esoterically ideological, deeply resentful, terminally online — unleavened by Trump’s instincts for showmanship and the winds of public sentiment. It is telling that it is Vance, not Trump, who wrote a glowing forward to Roberts’s forthcoming book. Trump is where MAGA started, but Vance and Roberts is where it is going."

Opinion | The MAGA Movement Has Become a Problem for Trump

He can no longer run as if he were a man alone.

www.nytimes.com

Tough to shake something when your name appears on 1/3 of its pages.

durangodawood · Sep 22, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
Tough to shake something when your name appears on 1/3 of its pages.

And loads of people you chose for your own administration were among the authors.

The document is essentially MAGA.

Fantine · Sep 22, 2024

Or when your platform has many similarities to Project 2025.

Always in His Presence · Sep 22, 2024

Because the DNC has made it part of their platform and has become the latest boogeyman they promote. Couple with the never ending support from the media - people actually believe this latest big lie.

Unfortunately it has replace such pearl clutching bylines as

Trump is going to end Medicaid - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will end Social Security - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will put blacks back in chains - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will be a dictator - ooh, scary man bad!

and the list goes on.

Why is Project 2025 belong to Trump - because they say so. Ooh, scary man bad!

And people believe them.

Always in His Presence · Sep 22, 2024

Fantine said:
Or when your platform has many similarities to Project 2025.

Name them -

Link both and point it out -

Laodicean60 · Sep 22, 2024

hislegacy said:
Trump is going to end Medicaid - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will end Social Security - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will put blacks back in chains - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will be a dictator - ooh, scary man bad!

Don't forget the national abortion ban.

wing2000 · Sep 22, 2024

Removed.

bèlla · Sep 22, 2024

There's a video with the former head of the organization addressing this topic. He spoke after he stepped down because of the backlash. He admitted that 98% of the people who drafted the document came from Trump's team and he provided the number. Only 2 or 3 weren't. The proposals submitted were things he was most likely to agree with because they knew his position.

When I watched a video about the document the book was still available on the site and Amazon had it too with previous iterations. I didn't buy it at that moment but when the scandal broke they disappeared. You couldn't find the book or earlier versions on Amazon and summaries were in their place. The digital version exists but it can be modified.

~bella

Maria Billingsley · Sep 22, 2024

hislegacy said:
Name them -

Link both and point it out -

Honestly. It isn't Trump himself it's the people around him.

Laodicean60 · Sep 22, 2024

wing2000 said:
For years, you have supported the Heritage Foundation and the policy positions they espouse. Your sudden 180 after Trump declares he has nothing to do with Project 2025 is a bit suspect.

Just because some people support what the Heritage Foundation says doesn't mean they support 100% of what they say. If Trump says he doesn't support Project 2025 you have to take what he says as true just like what Harris says about her policy. Their actions will tell the truth. I'm sure some of their campaign promise will be broken like we've seen in past presidents.

wing2000 · Sep 22, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Just because some people support what the Heritage Foundation says doesn't mean they support 100% of what they say. If Trump says he doesn't support Project 2025 you have to take what he says as true just like what Harris says about her policy. Their actions will tell the truth. I'm sure some of their campaign promise will be broken like we've seen in past presidents.

I'll go with 80%.
It's obvious why Trump is discounting the policies espoused in project 2025 - they are not in line with what most Americans want.

As Klein notes:
"The MAGA coalition — particularly its elected officials and Washington staffer class — has grown beyond Trump. It has more views on more issues than he does. It has absorbed more specific and unusual ideologies than he has. It is more hostile to abortion than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. It is more committed to deregulating health insurance than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. There is a great gap between the MAGA leader who slept with a porn star and the factions in the MAGA movement that want to outlaw pornography, as Roberts proposed on Project 2025’s first page."

Laodicean60 · Sep 22, 2024

wing2000 said:
It's obvious why Trump is discounting the policies espoused in project 2025 - they are not in line with what most Americans want.

I believe this statement but Harris's change in positions is also the same. We have to hide and watch and see whoever is President and watch their actions.

DaisyDay · Sep 22, 2024

hislegacy said:
Ooh, scary man bad!

Or vice versus: bad man scary! He and his plans to junk the civil service system in favor of the spoils system is genuinely concerning.

bèlla · Sep 22, 2024

Neither Project 2025 or Agenda 47 were made with our wishes in mind. It's what another believes is best who didn't consult us. Slamming one while ignoring the other exists is unwise. It's their design for our undoing.

If Kamala wins we get Agenda 47 and if Trump does we get Project 2025. That's what their party agreed to and will enforce. No matter who it is we lose. The best thing to do is to familiarize yourself with both and how it affects you. Life is bigger than red and blue and no matter who you support it will go forward.

Examine the proposals and look for common denominators between the two. They go about it differently but they'll reach the same place. What are you going to do about it? That's what you should be focusing on. And work together. Factions will be your undoing. You can't oppose this divided.

~bella

durangodawood · Sep 22, 2024

hislegacy said:
Trump is going to end Medicaid - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will end Social Security - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will put blacks back in chains - ooh, scary man bad!
Trump will be a dictator - ooh, scary man bad!

You ever thought of trying your hand at song writing?

Offline4Better. · Sep 22, 2024

wing2000 said:
Ezra Klein sums up Trump's conundrum with Project 2025 well:

"The MAGA coalition — particularly its elected officials and Washington staffer class — has grown beyond Trump. It has more views on more issues than he does. It has absorbed more specific and unusual ideologies than he has. It is more hostile to abortion than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. It is more committed to deregulating health insurance than he is, or than he wants to appear to be. There is a great gap between the MAGA leader who slept with a porn star and the factions in the MAGA movement that want to outlaw pornography, as Roberts proposed on Project 2025’s first page.

Trumpism is whatever Trump says it is, but MAGA is whatever his movement becomes. This is why JD Vance has been a political liability to Trump’s campaign: Vance represents MAGA as it has evolved — esoterically ideological, deeply resentful, terminally online — unleavened by Trump’s instincts for showmanship and the winds of public sentiment. It is telling that it is Vance, not Trump, who wrote a glowing forward to Roberts’s forthcoming book. Trump is where MAGA started, but Vance and Roberts is where it is going."

Opinion | The MAGA Movement Has Become a Problem for Trump

He can no longer run as if he were a man alone.

www.nytimes.com

I like this summary by Ezra Klein a lot, and it does seem like Trump sleeping with an internet prostitute is hypocritical, which is why that stuff should be banned outright. However, the Project 2025 does make a few good points. Now, I have not read Project 2025 (900+ pages long), but I asked my machine to summarize it as well, to give all sides of the political aisle the benefit of the doubt.

In simple terms, the artificial intelligence has read and learned Democratic and Republican political platforms from the 1960s through the 2020s. It has also learned Project 2025, the American Solidarity Party, and the basics of the US government by analyzing open-access (free download) textbooks and documents. For reference, all 42 of the political documents that the AI has learned add up to 2,382,479 words. It took ~12 hours for the machine to learn the documents. It would take roughly 6 weeks of reading for four hours a day for a human to learn this amount of words, assuming a reading rate of 240 words/min.

Prompt: "Compare the Trump platform with Project 2025's platform. What are the similarities and differences between the two platforms. Finally, which policies of Project 2025 could be good for our country from a moderate centrist perspective (such as the American Solidarity Party platform), and which policies of Project 2025 could be overall detrimental to the United States?"

Mistral AI response, based upon PDF documents:

DaisyDay · Sep 22, 2024

bèlla said:
If Kamala wins we get Agenda 47 and if Trump does we get Project 2025.

How is that possible? Agenda 47 is Trump's own platform. Project 2025 is the Heritage Foundation's proposal for Trump.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47

https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

Maybe you're thinking of some other Agenda ###?

Richard T · Sep 22, 2024

I read a few sections on project 2025. Navarro on trade, and the education sections. Those seemed ok. I just read the Federal Reserve section and it has some good moderate ideas, like take away the mandate for unemployment and focus on inflation only. It also suggests some radical moves like removing the Federal Reserve entirely or bringing back money that has value based on commodities. That would likely doom the economy for 4 years. Trump himself just wants control of the Federal Reserve so it will keep interest rates low while ignoring inflation effects from what I hear him speak about this. Though I have not read the rest of 2025, or heard of any serious policies that actually could pass I assume it is just recycled ideas. Yes, we could tweak tariffs and close the border to most immigrants. i doubt even with a gop Senate that there are any sweeping changes anyway. Trump + Congress are likely still big spenders and at least Vance is not a Chinese sympathizer like Walz. So they would at least care if the USA needs to defend itself but probably are still too isolationist to react quickly to allies needs.

Sorry but I do not see too much future in Maga. It is too racist, too sexist, and the only way it might continue is if Harris gets elected and everything goes horribly which it likely would. Most zealous extremists calm way down when they are become entrenched in D.C. anyway, so i would assume Vance would become like that.

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