New Catholic dating site hopes to ‘rewire the way we think about dating’

mourningdove~ said:

Hope you have a good day in the Lord also.

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I like both of you and hope you both can chill and get along. And we still need ways for young Catholic women and men to find each other and engage. Society isn’t helping that.

If I ever begin dating again, once I get an annulment, I will consider using this site.

chevyontheriver said:

I like both of you and hope you both can chill and get along. And we still need ways for young Catholic women and men to find each other and engage. Society isn’t helping that.

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@chevyontheriver

I attempted to, Chevy.

I don't know why you felt the need to address me, and not the man that falsely accused me publicly of many embarrassing things, without his knowing anything about me and without me asking anyone here for marital advice?

Please re-look at things he said to me, all unsolicited:

boughtwithaprice said:

Here is a clue, if the thought of having sexual intercourse with your husband repulses you, you probably should not get married. You will not be able to pay the cost, that is make the sacrifice, and your end will be worse than the first

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boughtwithaprice said:

If he is to remain your husband, he must be a man and provide for his family not depend on you to do the things he is commanded to do

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boughtwithaprice said:

The fact that you felt that you had two godly marriages has no bearing on the truth being discussed.

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boughtwithaprice said:

Your hesitancy toward the marital debt, implies that you do not understand either. Marriage is a complete giving of one to the other. Your body no longer belongs to you, but to your husband. Your husbands body no longer belongs to him but to you his wife. Why would that impair anyone from considering marriage? And if it does, don’t get married.

If you had a relationship where this was not the case, yet you still call it marriage, then you were mistaken. You held part of yourself back from your husband. This is not what we do.

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And why did he say all that to me? Because I said this to you:

mourningdove~ said:

It would be nice to see more persons happily united in marriage, but I think the 'marital debt' clause could be keeping some from seeking out a marriage partner.

In today's toxic society, one can't always be sure they have chosen a suitable mate ... and to find out they didn't ... after the "I do's" are said ... would be like sentencing oneself to a life of misery and ongoing temptation to mortal sin.

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Did I deserve the embarrassing public dressing down for that ^ post?
Really???

You say you like us both, but it does not appear that way. Because you addressed me, and not him, it's obvious that you must agree with the way that this man treated me.

I will do always do my best to abide by the rules, and I will put up with alot of strangeness on CF, but not the inappropriate, embarrassing public defamation of my character or my godly marriages ... and especially not when done by a Christian man who doesn't even know me.

... Go figure?

So I will go now and chill. Yes, I will go.
God bless.

mourningdove~ said:

@chevyontheriver

I attempted to, Chevy.

I don't know why you felt the need to address me, and not the man that falsely accused me publicly of many embarrassing things, without his knowing anything about me and without me asking anyone here for marital advice?

Please re-look at things he said to me, all unsolicited:












And why did he say all that to me? Because I said this to you:



Did I deserve the embarrassing public dressing down for that ^ post?
Really???

You say you like us both, but it does not appear that way. Because you addressed me, and not him, it's obvious that you must agree with the way that this man treated me.

I will do always do my best to abide by the rules, and I will put up with alot of strangeness on CF, but not the inappropriate, embarrassing public defamation of my character or my godly marriages ... and especially not when done by a Christian man who doesn't even know me.

... Go figure?

So I will go now and chill. Yes, I will go.
God bless.

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I responded TO YOU in hopes you would both see it and calmly get to a place of agreement. I wasn’t directing this to you ALONE as if I was saying you alone needed stomping on. It was for both of you, in hopes you could reconcile. I do not agree with him over you. So however ‘obvious’ that was, it isn’t true.

mourningdove~ said:

@chevyontheriver

I attempted to, Chevy.

I don't know why you felt the need to address me, and not the man that falsely accused me publicly of many embarrassing things, without his knowing anything about me and without me asking anyone here for marital advice?

Please re-look at things he said to me, all unsolicited:












And why did he say all that to me? Because I said this to you:



Did I deserve the embarrassing public dressing down for that ^ post?
Really???

You say you like us both, but it does not appear that way. Because you addressed me, and not him, it's obvious that you must agree with the way that this man treated me.

I will do always do my best to abide by the rules, and I will put up with alot of strangeness on CF, but not the inappropriate, embarrassing public defamation of my character or my godly marriages ... and especially not when done by a Christian man who doesn't even know me.

... Go figure?

So I will go now and chill. Yes, I will go.
God bless.

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Another hit? Speaking third person about me in public and making false accusations. That’s not appropriate

I addressed the words you said, not the person that you are, because as you say, I do not know you

Once again, you said that the marital debt was not something to be desired or disparaged it in some way. That comment does deserve to be dressed down as it goes against Catholic teaching. It was the comment not you

You made it personal by taking it personal and now you are personally attacking me by trying to rally others against me.

Thank you, I can take it and even expect it. Our Lord has said I would be hated by all men for upholding His teaching. I stand by what I said

Catholic marriage is sacred and I don’t care what you think about it, nor am I ashamed of it. I don’t know anything about your marriages and I don’t know anything about you. You decided to take it personal. That is the problem.

Mortal sin is a big deal, your personal feelings are not, nor are mine

boughtwithaprice said:

Another hit? Speaking third person about me in public and making false accusations. That’s not appropriate

I addressed the words you said, not the person that you are, because as you say, I do not know you

Once again, you said that the marital debt was not something to be desired or disparaged it in some way. That comment does deserve to be dressed down as it goes against Catholic teaching. It was the comment not you

You made it personal by taking it personal and now you are personally attacking me by trying to rally others against me.

Thank you, I can take it and even expect it. Our Lord has said I would be hated by all men for upholding His teaching. I stand by what I said

Catholic marriage is sacred and I don’t care what you think about it, nor am I ashamed of it. I don’t know anything about your marriages and I don’t know anything about you. You decided to take it personal. That is the problem.

Mortal sin is a big deal, your personal feelings are not, nor are mine

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Would both of you take some time to cool down, stop your potshots, take back some of what you wrote, and try to reconcile? Is there a reason that either of you will not try that, speaking for yourselves only?

Otherwise I'm losing at least one and probably two friends here.

Michie said:

True friends should remain friends even in disagreement imo.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

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I am at risk of one or both of them dumping me. I'm not working to cut off either of them.

chevyontheriver said:

I am at risk of one or both of them dumping me. I'm not working to cut off either of them.

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You are never at risk of me dumping you, because I am not acting on emotion. You are free to take her side as is Michie. It does not offend me. The situation is thus:

According to Catholic teaching, a woman that refuses a reasonable request for the marital act does so under the pain of mortal sin. That is a fact. The key word is reasonable. That is called the marital debt. When on the altar of matrimony, the woman offers her sexuality as a gift. Once married it is no longer a gift but an obligation. That is a fact. There are no feelings involved.

Mourning dove made a comment which disparaged this teaching or implied it was not true. I called her on it. Did she recant? No

She insults me by attacking me and telling me that I can’t stand by the teaching because it hurts her feelings. I have repeatedly said that I do not know her personally and am only discussing the comment she made.

Let her attack my person, let all of you think I am too mean. What have I done, but stand by the Church?

I don’t hate you Morningdove, I am just not going to give into your bullying and your insistence that I respect your person. I follow Jesus and have denied myself, you should do the same, and we could have a civil conversation.

Sound doctrine does not tickle our ears, but if you love Him, it delights your heart. If our eyes are on ourselves, we can’t see Him.

I will take the harsh judgements of my friends as I strive to detach my heart from material things and esteem of the world

There is a portion of the Litany of Humility that is appropriate to this thread

From the fear of being despised, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of suffering rebukes, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being calumniated, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being forgotten, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being ridiculed, deliver me Jesus
Form the fear of being wronged, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being suspected, deliver me Jesus

Are you upset because I am not afraid of you?
Would you like to back off and settle this issue, which is about doctrine and not persons?

boughtwithaprice said:

You are never at risk of me dumping you, because I am not acting on emotion. You are free to take her side as is Michie. It does not offend me. The situation is thus:

According to Catholic teaching, a woman that refuses a reasonable request for the marital act does so under the pain of mortal sin. That is a fact. The key word is reasonable. That is called the marital debt. When on the altar of matrimony, the woman offers her sexuality as a gift. Once married it is no longer a gift but an obligation. That is a fact. There are no feelings involved.

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A man that refuses a reasonable request is in the exact same situation. The man offers his sexuality, whole, unreserved, so side hustle for pornography or a concubine. His parts belong to her as much as hers belong to him. They are co-owners. Theb become one flesh.

boughtwithaprice said:

Mourning dove made a comment which disparaged this teaching or implied it was not true. I called her on it. Did she recant? No

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I commented on the same thing, but I did not at all see it as a denial, but the recognition of a difficult truth regarding it. It is awkward to 'collect' on this debt, and it is best paid without having to ever be asked. It is almost an uncollectible debt though it is a real debt. It is a debt freely taken on and should be freely paid. I made the point that if such a debt is onerous then probably the full measure of consent in marriage was lacking. Both husband and wife surrender their entire selves to the other. Or, if they don't, they better either figure it out fast or get an annulment. Much as I don't like to ever propose an annulment, sexual communion is close to the core of a marriage and if that debt will not be paid, or only paid with much complaint, is it a marriage?

boughtwithaprice said:

She insults me by attacking me and telling me that I can’t stand by the teaching because it hurts her feelings. I have repeatedly said that I do not know her personally and am only discussing the comment she made.

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Did she deliberately insult you? At least in the beginning? Or might you have taken more offence than was ever given?

boughtwithaprice said:

Let her attack my person, let all of you think I am too mean. What have I done, but stand by the Church?

I don’t hate you Morningdove, I am just not going to give into your bullying and your insistence that I respect your person. I follow Jesus and have denied myself, you should do the same, and we could have a civil conversation.

Sound doctrine does not tickle our ears, but if you love Him, it delights your heart. If our eyes are on ourselves, we can’t see Him.

I will take the harsh judgements of my friends as I strive to detach my heart from material things and esteem of the world

There is a portion of the Litany of Humility that is appropriate to this thread

From the fear of being despised, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of suffering rebukes, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being calumniated, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being forgotten, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being ridiculed, deliver me Jesus
Form the fear of being wronged, deliver me Jesus
From the fear of being suspected, deliver me Jesus

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Do you fear being wronged so much you cannot reconcile? You and Morningdove can do this if you both are humble enough. If either of you isn't then the war continues until one defeats the other.

boughtwithaprice said:

Are you upset because I am not afraid of you?
Would you like to back off and settle this issue, which is about doctrine and not persons?

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I am not 'upset with you'. Nor am I afraid of you. I would like you both to attack less and remove all personal issues from this marathon contest you two are engaging in, trying to get others on 'your side' as if I would side with either of you against civility and reconciliation.

chevyontheriver said:

Would both of you take some time to cool down, stop your potshots, take back some of what you wrote, and try to reconcile? Is there a reason that either of you will not try that, speaking for yourselves only?

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No. I am not willing to "take back some of what I wrote" ... or to "try to reconcile" as you have suggested.

Given the ongoing miscommunication occurring in this thread, I genuinely don't believe reconciliation is possible.

But I harbor no ill will towards anyone here, for any and all unkind or untrue things said about me and/or to me, whether they were intentional or not.

Thank you for your efforts to restore peaceful discussion to this thread.

For a number of reasons, it is in my best interest now to refrain from further commenting in this thread.

One reason is that it has been a very busy 10 days. Our dear dog is very sick. I've been running back and forth repeatedly to the vet. Our doggie is a real cutie (Miniature Pinscher) but he is suffering very much right now with pancreatitis and perhaps something more. I'm not sure he's going to make it. He was my husband's dog. I know he's been missing my husband very much since his recent death. I love our little doggie, want to do everything for him that I can, but caregiving does wear me out more than it used to. Guess I'm getting old! lol

boughtwithaprice said:

The symptom you lament is a straw man.

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I've looked at my last post with as much objectivity as I can and cannot find a straw man argument in it.

I do not think the term means what you think it means.

boughtwithaprice said:

I do not espouse toxic masculinity, but you believe that I do. I want obedience to the word of God, and I live it.

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Potato, Potato. (Pronounce those two words differently in your head, please)

boughtwithaprice said:

You want a romcom? ok. You don’t know my wife.

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Has she ever been in a movie ?

boughtwithaprice said:

It seems you think she is trad and is like Audrey from the 1986 version of little shop of horrors and I am like the dentist. That is a comedy, but it is not true.

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Ok, Little Shop of Horrors, ftr, not a romantic comedy.

boughtwithaprice said:

My wife is not Catholic, and she comes from a background of anti Catholic propaganda in seventh day Adventism. She is a farm girl and likes horses and has an attitude more like Beth Dutton from yellow stone.

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Don't watch Yellow Stone, but NBC says it's not a Romantic Comedy either.

boughtwithaprice said:

I take responsibility, I do not enforce obedience.

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Parish the thought. (See what I did there? - This kind of thing takes practice and skill)

boughtwithaprice said:

I am tired of the Hollywood portrayal of the ever wise female and the bumbling boob of a man.

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You should watch a better brand of Romantic Comedy

boughtwithaprice said:

I am tired of screeching harpy feminists that decry toxic masculinity and give us simps with man buns.

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Did you actually read this sentence before you hit enter ? I mean, not a paragraph previous you were denying toxic masculinity, now you're decrying "harpy feminists" who don't like it.

And, yea, I'm old and work awful hard on my glucks, buddy.

boughtwithaprice said:

Yes I remember Terms of Endearment and Steel Magnolias as well as the Witches of Eastwick, all supposed to tell us that women are good, men are evil.

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Also, ftr, not romantic comedies.

boughtwithaprice said:

I am just sick of it. Hollywood defines America because America has allowed itself to be defined by Hollywood.

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It's the opposite way around: Hollywood reflects America. That was my point.

boughtwithaprice said:

I am also sick of antifa.

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Wait, what ? Why bring ANTIFA into this.

(btw, my FATHER was ANTIFA, ok? He fought the Fascists when fighting them was cool)

boughtwithaprice said:

They say that everyone that does not accept left wing ideology is a fascist as the word has lost all meaning and just become a slogan like teabaggers, apemen, Neanderthals, all meant to embarrass conservatives, men in particular to apologize for their existence.

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Personally, I'm not ANTIFA, I'm Iron Front (All Iron Front is ANTIFA but not all ANTIFA is Iron Front, for those scoring at home).
I don't care if you're conservative. I don't care if you're a man.

Just don't be fascist, commie or authoritarian.

BUT -
Where did THIS all come from ? I thought we were talking about marriage. (and in a round about way movies)

I mean,

I mean,

What tripped the trigger here, big guy ?

boughtwithaprice said:

I can agree with you. I want a good RomCom.

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I don't think we agree on the definition of RomCom, actually.

boughtwithaprice said:

I found that I get it when I obey God and His commands and not follow the dictates of Hollywood which is just following the dictates of Marxism, socialism, radical left, and the reactionary right is no better.

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So you like a good movie but not really ?

boughtwithaprice said:

Satan is playing everyone like a bookie.

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Yeah, but he gives terrible odds and questionable point spreads. You're better off in an Indian Casino.

boughtwithaprice said:

He makes a profit no matter which side wins. I am tired of the game

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Well, how about a movie ?

boughtwithaprice said:

Yes I agree with you. I want a RomCom where men and women have mutual respect for each other not this win/lose mentality

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The Thin Man is free on Youtube (RIGHT NOW)

boughtwithaprice said:

I like the attitude of a Cliff Boothe from Once upon a time in Hollywood.

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Not a Romantic Comedy.

boughtwithaprice said:

He admires women, but he is not a slave to his libido. He says prison ain’t got me yet and when it does, it’s not going to be because of poontang. He is also unphased by the ridicule of women or the mockery of their minions. He even absorbs the accusations that he killed his wife

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This is a Quintin Taritino movie we're talking about, right ?

boughtwithaprice said:

The Catholic Church has defined roles for men and women. When we study the catechism and the lives of the saints, it is very refreshing. I want a world where women stop wanting to be men and dominate men, and men stop letting themselves be dominated in exchange for sex.

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Oh, yeah, you've got NO problems with the institution of marriage at all.

boughtwithaprice said:

If I marry a woman, I expect her to want to have sexual intercourse and children with me, and for us to build a family as we walk the path to heaven
If she doesn’t, then we have no business being married.

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At least not to you.

boughtwithaprice said:

It becomes a fraud

I want to obey God and His Church, and I am willing to take the hit from you to say that I don’t

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I would never (and I think I can say this safely) and have never suggested that I can know another person's conscience.

Just their psychological state. (But that's really a social defensive mechanism)

Cosmic Charlie said:

I've looked at my last post with as much objectivity as I can and cannot find a straw man argument in it.

I do not think the term means what you think it means.

Potato, Potato. (Pronounce those two words differently in your head, please)

Has she ever been in a movie ?

Ok, Little Shop of Horrors, ftr, not a romantic comedy.

Don't watch Yellow Stone, but NBC says it's not a Romantic Comedy either.

Parish the thought. (See what I did there? - This kind of thing takes practice and skill)

You should watch a better brand of Romantic Comedy

Did you actually read this sentence before you hit enter ? I mean, not a paragraph previous you were denying toxic masculinity, now you're decrying "harpy feminists" who don't like it.

And, yea, I'm old and work awful hard on my glucks, buddy.

Also, ftr, not romantic comedies.

It's the opposite way around: Hollywood reflects America. That was my point.

Wait, what ? Why bring ANTIFA into this.

(btw, my FATHER was ANTIFA, ok? He fought the Fascists when fighting them was cool)

Personally, I'm not ANTIFA, I'm Iron Front (All Iron Front is ANTIFA but not all ANTIFA is Iron Front, for those scoring at home).
I don't care if you're conservative. I don't care if you're a man.

Just don't be fascist, commie or authoritarian.

BUT -
Where did THIS all come from ? I thought we were talking about marriage. (and in a round about way movies)

I mean,

I mean,

What tripped the trigger here, big guy ?

I don't think we agree on the definition of RomCom, actually.

So you like a good movie but not really ?

Yeah, but he gives terrible odds and questionable point spreads. You're better off in an Indian Casino.

Well, how about a movie ?

The Thin Man is free on Youtube (RIGHT NOW)

Not a Romantic Comedy.

This is a Quintin Taritino movie we're talking about, right ?

Oh, yeah, you've got NO problems with the institution of marriage at all.

At least not to you.

I would never (and I think I can say this safely) and have never suggested that I can know another person's conscience.

Just their psychological state. (But that's really a social defensive mechanism)

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You value of your psychoanalytical skills is a defense mechanism, yes. You claim to know others, but always leave them guessing about yourself. When it is that way, you will never be bested.
The thing is, psychological states do not always translate to computer screens. If it makes you feel better, keep me labeled. My person is not important as I am but dust and a worm before Our Lord.
It is the word of God that is important, and we see this played out in the Bible and history. A Catholic man is labeled toxic masculinity because it is the same old lie from the serpent. Eve was deceived first, and modern women are falling right into the same old trap. Call me toxic, I don’t care

When we read about the origins of feminism we find a woman named Mary Wollstonecraft. Of course she grew up in a home with and abusive father and a mousy mother. She lived during the French Revolution as an American citizen in Paris and was present for the reign of terror.
The enlightenment and the throwing off of Church teaching formed the basis of her thinking. She wrote a piece called Vindication of the rights of woman
Her daughter was Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley who married the poet Percy Shelley. They were friends with other poets like Lord Byron. They had a peculiar admiration for Marquis de Sade, whom they viewed as the freest soul on Earth.
Their thinking was Romanticism which wanted to add feeling and pleasure to the drab reasoning of the enlightenment. They lived a philosophy of “free love” around a 150 years before the 1960s
Mary Shelley is best known for writing Frankenstein

In America the feminist movement began in 1848 at Seneca Falls, NY by Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony. They were steeped in what was then called spiritualism and theosophy. They rewrote the Declaration of Independence for women called Declaration of Sentiments and wrote a woman’s Bible where the story is reversed and the serpent is not evil but a kindly old creature departing great wisdom.

It’s not surprising that many of feminist imaging takes Biblical evil as their heros. We see a magazine called Jezebelle and Lilith is portrayed in a positive light. Stanton and Anthony used what is called a spirit table from which they would hear knocking as communication from the spirit world. It removes all doubt that feminism has any claim to just be about women’s rights and fighting oppression

Interesting reading, but you will probably say that I am misogynistic for even reading the history that suggests a satanic origin of feminism.
The serpent did entice Eve to eat the fruit first as it was pleasant to the eyes and desirous to make one wise. Nah, don’t want to eat that stuff

Go ahead an look. The history is all there to read. The modern feminist wants to crush the white male or at least render him a joke. They have pretty much succeeded

Nothing left to do but fast and pray

chevyontheriver said:

A man that refuses a reasonable request is in the exact same situation. The man offers his sexuality, whole, unreserved, so side hustle for pornography or a concubine. His parts belong to her as much as hers belong to him. They are co-owners. Theb become one flesh.

I commented on the same thing, but I did not at all see it as a denial, but the recognition of a difficult truth regarding it. It is awkward to 'collect' on this debt, and it is best paid without having to ever be asked. It is almost an uncollectible debt though it is a real debt. It is a debt freely taken on and should be freely paid. I made the point that if such a debt is onerous then probably the full measure of consent in marriage was lacking. Both husband and wife surrender their entire selves to the other. Or, if they don't, they better either figure it out fast or get an annulment. Much as I don't like to ever propose an annulment, sexual communion is close to the core of a marriage and if that debt will not be paid, or only paid with much complaint, is it a marriage?

Did she deliberately insult you? At least in the beginning? Or might you have taken more offence than was ever given?

Do you fear being wronged so much you cannot reconcile? You and Morningdove can do this if you both are humble enough. If either of you isn't then the war continues until one defeats the other.

I am not 'upset with you'. Nor am I afraid of you. I would like you both to attack less and remove all personal issues from this marathon contest you two are engaging in, trying to get others on 'your side' as if I would side with either of you against civility and reconciliation.

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I appreciate the sentiment Chevy, I do.

The point that I was trying to make, and she kept missing is our first work as Christians and to follow Jesus. Deny ourselves and take up our cross.

I said in my post that I have nothing against her personally and still don’t, because who we are does not matter. Paul was famous for telling us that it is useless to glory in the flesh. He said I am determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. That point was lost
I had to keep standing my ground, as she made a public post about me, which is not Christian behavior. That is not miscommunication, that happened. If advise was sought, it could have been private, but it was on public display, so it got a public response

I didn’t want to talk about her personally, I wanted her to address the issues. Yes, the marital debt goes both ways and I do not advocate making a woman a sex slave, she is a wife and a mother and deserves respect. That does not justify fear of the marital debt

Modern feminism is too steeped in Marxist and satanic imagery to be acceptable. The greatest gift that can be bestowed on a human is motherhood, something a man will never know never.

To see modern women look at it as something to be feared, avoided and if achieved looked at as slavery is sickening to any Christian

What is the purpose of marriage but to have children? Yes there are barren couples and God has mercy on them but it does not justify seeking to be barren or fearing to be fertile
Those are the issues not my ego or anyone else’s If we only think of ourselves, we lose site of what God calls us to do. All the things of this world are meaningless.
Quite frankly, you could not say enough bad things about my flesh. I know that I am deserving of death and eternal separation from God, but He gave us free will to ask Him to save us and to love Him freely. That goes for all of us.

He shed His precious blood in the Agony, at the scourging, from the crown of thorns, and on the cross. Without which there is no forgiveness.

Our lives do not amount to a pile of dung without it. Deny ourselves is my point. We are not here to boost each other’s ego. We need to talk about how great Jesus and His sacrifice is to us. Our life is a vapor, we aim for eternity

chevyontheriver said:

Well, something's gotta be done. Good virtuous Catholic young women and good virtuous Catholic young men can't seem to find each other anymore. I know there are some of each out there.

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Check out this idea from Japan:

(I excised the author's pessimism about this approach, which I don't really share.)