Worries about heaven?

tonychanyt said:

How do you cope with the thought of your child who does not make it to heaven experiencing eternal suffering?

On the new earth, we may have some bad memories of this life. However, due to the new perspective, we will not feel bad about them.

Click to expand...

Really? How utterly heartless, meaningless and loveless is that? Oh, well, my child is burning alive and I feel nothing?

Heaven? No thank you to that version

We do not serve a cruel God. There is no eternal punishing, there is a punishment. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23- not eternal punishment. Those who are not in Christ will die- not tortured for eternity- this is really an attack on God's character. God is a God of love, but also of justice. No way could He wipe away all tears of His saints and make everything new if our loved ones are burning forever

SabbathBlessings said:

We do not serve a cruel God. There is no eternal punishing, there is a punishment. The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23- not eternal punishment. Those who are not in Christ will die- not tortured for eternity- this is really an attack on God's character. God is a God of love, but also of justice. No way could He wipe away all tears of His saints and make everything new if our loved ones are burning forever

Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth

Does hell burn forever? The truth may surprise you ...

www.helltruth.com

Click to expand...

As if eternally annihilating them and wiping out every memory of them from us makes God "better?"

Is that what passes for Eternal Divine Mercy nowadays?

I can't help but laugh sometimes when annihilationists/memory wipers think their position is an improvement over eternal conscience torment. Eternal lobotomy?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

As if eternally annihilating them and wiping out every memory of them from us makes God "better?"

Is that what passes for Eternal Divine Mercy nowadays?

I can't help but laugh sometimes when annihilationists/memory wipers think their position is an improvement over eternal conscience torment. Eternal lobotomy?

Click to expand...

Who said God was going to wipe anyone's memory?

SabbathBlessings said:

Who said God was going to wipe anyone's memory?

Click to expand...

So the eternal thoughts of God killing your child makes it better for you?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

So the eternal thoughts of God killing your child makes it better for you?

Click to expand...

God is going to be opening up the books during the millennium Rev 20:4 1 Cor 6:2-3 so all saints will understand why their loved ones who didn't make it is not there. While it will be painful, I trust God will make us understand why one is not there as sin has no part in God's kingdom and will learn to accept it. He promises to wipe away all tears, not all memories. I believe the saints will always have distant memories of what sin did So it never rises up again.

You seem to believe everyone is saved, regardless how one lives and that is not biblical.

SabbathBlessings said:

God is going to be opening up the books during the millennium so all saints will understand why their loved ones won't be there. While it will be painful,

Click to expand...

No sense sugar coating it.

And for the record I believe the devil and his messengers will be in the LoF for eternity, but the caveat with people is there is not a single named person in the entire Bible shown to be suffering that fate. A determination made by orthodoxy long long ago. And not a single named person is even threatened with such a fate

And that is just enough to have us hope for not only our loved ones, but ALL people

BelieveItOarKnot said:

No sense sugar coating it.

And for the record I believe the devil and his messengers will be in the LoF for eternity, but the caveat with people is there is not a single named person in the entire Bible shown to be suffering that fate. A determination made by orthodoxy long long ago. And not a single named person is even threatened with such a fate

And that is just enough to have us hope for not only our loved ones, but ALL people

Click to expand...

God destroyed everyone but 8 people with the flood. God destroyed the whole city of Sodom and Gomorra. Not sure what bible you're reading, but sin will have no place in His Kingdon and God will never take away free will. He promises to destroy sin and sinners. Revelation 20

SabbathBlessings said:

God destroyed everyone but 8 people with the flood. God destroyed the whole city of Sodom and Gomorra. Not sure what bible you're reading, but sin will have no place in His Kingdon and God will never take away free will. He promises to destroy sin and sinners. Revelation 20

Click to expand...

My previous observation stands. Jesus is claimed to be "The Savior of the world" more than once in scripture, and if that is really the case, maybe, just maybe God in Christ actually gets the job done for people? I wouldn't dare presume a single person to eternal torture or eternal death. Simply because scripture provides zero specific named person evidence.

It is not against sound Christian theology to hold out hope for ALL people. Even though many turn ill headed about it

There is no sense praying for all if such prayers are futile in our own minds and hearts

BelieveItOarKnot said:

My previous observation stands. Jesus is claimed to be "The Savior of the world" more than once in scripture, and if that is really the case, maybe, just maybe God in Christ actually gets the job done for people? I wouldn't dare presume a single person to eternal torture or eternal death. Simply because scripture provides zero specific named person evidence.

It is not against sound Christian theology to hold out hope for ALL people. Even though many turn ill headed about it

There is no sense praying for all if such prayers are futile in our own minds and hearts

Click to expand...

Of course Jesus is the Savior of the world- He never forsakes us, we forsake Him when we choose another master to serve Rom 6:16
As long as we breath we have hope.

John sums it up perfectly

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

2 The 2: 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Not everyone wants to come to God's Truth that we might be saved.

Jesus is Truth John 14:6
His Word is Truth John 17:17
His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

Sadly many choose to stay in darkness instead of coming to His Truth. It's all about our choices. It's not God's desire that anyone should perish but because God loves us so much He gives us free will to choose.

SabbathBlessings said:

Of course Jesus is the Savior of the world- He never forsakes us, we forsake Him

Click to expand...

Who's we?

You do understand that there is a very basic principle in play for every person that has ever existed other than God Himself in the flesh, right?

All have sin, Romans 3:9

And sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to SATAN

He not only can, but does say the same to all of us. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

One saved
One lost

Jesus showed that devils were "in mankind" on every page of the Bible. WHO exactly do you think we are captured by and saved from? That would be our adversary, our enemy. Do you think Jesus will fail? You'd rather blame people for failing to be their own savior? Scratching my head on that one

Jesus came to save captives. We are all presently such

I expect to be saved from my enemy, the devil, when the devil no longer holds the sway of temptations and evil thoughts in my own mind. I'd love to be rid of "him," but that's simply not in the cards for any of us. We have been purposefully disarmed to be able to fight exactly for the expressed purpose of understanding God's Eternal Mercy in Christ

Now, you are welcome to claim that the tempter in you obeys the Sabbath, and I will always try to respectfully point out that's not even remotely possible

I'll be the last person standing in line trying to tell Jesus how obedient "I am." Back of the line for me please. I'll take the Mercy any day over that hollow claim of obedience

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Who's we?

You do understand that there is a very basic principle in play for every person that has ever existed other than God Himself in the flesh, right?

All have sin, Romans 3:9

And sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to SATAN

He not only can, but does say the same to all of us. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

One saved
One lost

Jesus showed that devils were "in mankind" on every page of the Bible. WHO exactly do you think we are captured by and saved from? That would be our adversary, our enemy. Do you think Jesus will fail? You'd rather blame people for failing to be their own savior? Scratching my head on that one

Jesus came to save captives. We are all presently such

I expect to be saved from my enemy, the devil, when the devil no longer holds the sway of temptations and evil thoughts in my own mind. I'd love to be rid of "him," but that's simply not in the cards for any of us. We have been purposefully disarmed to be able to fight exactly for the expressed purpose of understanding God's Eternal Mercy in Christ

Now, you are welcome to claim that the tempter in you obeys the Sabbath, and I will always try to respectfully point out that's not even remotely possible

I'll be the last person standing in line trying to tell Jesus how obedient "I am." Back of the line for me please. I'll take the Mercy any day over that hollow claim of obedience

Click to expand...

Jesus came to save us from sin Mat 1:21, not save us in our sin Heb 10:26-30- we have to have a conversion. Die of self, live for Christ. Romans 6

Many people want all the blessing Christ's promises, but they really don't want Christ. Many Christians teach we do not have to listen or follow what Christ taught, He is not our example to follow, which contradicts the scriptures.

Jesus came not just to take away the penalty of sin, when we turn from sin, confess and forsake them Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9 but He showed us how we are to live 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 Sadly, most reject this. They don't want to follow what Jesus taught or follow how Jesus lived, they just want His blessings. Love is not true love if forced He will never force us to follow Him, but He is the light of the world, sadly, most want to stay in darkness by doing their will over God's.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus came to save us from sin Mat 1:21, not save us in our sin Heb 10:26-30- we have to have a conversion. Die of self, live for Christ. Romans 6

Many people want all the blessing Christ's promises, but they really don't want Christ. Many Christians teach we do not have to listen or follow what Christ taught, He is not our example to follow, which contradicts the scriptures.

Jesus came not just to take away the penalty of sin, when we turn from sin, confess and forsake them Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9 but He showed us how we are to live 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15 Sadly, most reject this. They don't want to follow what Jesus taught or follow how Jesus lived, they just want His blessings. Love is not true love if forced He will never force us to follow Him, but He is the light in this world, sadly, most want to stay in darkness by doing their will over God's.

Click to expand...

Well, now you are on to an entirely different subject: The false claims of sinless people

Not buying. Sorry

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Well, now you are on to an entirely different subject: The false claims of sinless people

Not buying. Sorry

Click to expand...

I didn't quote "me"

Paul sums it up nicely as well

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Why would someone in Christ want to live in sin knowing what it did to to Jesus who are are told to love with all our heart, might and soul. Why would someone in Christ not want to believe and live by His every Word Mat 4:4 Why would someone in Christ not want to abide in Him and follow His example 1 John 2:5-6 Jesus showing us the WAY by His life John 14:6. Sadly the answer is simple, people prefer their will (darkness) over God’s will . Mat 7:21-23


I guess we will find out soon enough.

tonychanyt said:

The coming ages started counting after the future resurrection, e.g., the age of discovery, the computer age, the space age, the AI age, etc.

After Jesus' 2nd coming, there will also be a plurality of ages.

Click to expand...

Question. What does plurality mean? Successive ages or unique concurrent ages? Or both somehow?

tonychanyt said:

Will the new earth be stagnant or boring?

No, there will be interesting work, John 5:


Or will we still develop and advance?

Yes, exciting developments under the new glorified physics

Click to expand...

Observation. I was actually pondering this subject earlier this week. I do believe you are right, as evidenced by our experiences here throughout our history - a foretaste indeed.

What is the point of the Lord building our character here? We are destined for Heaven anyways. Well one of the obvious reasons is to become more Christ-like, which I would imagine enables us to bear greater fruit for the Kingdom, which gives us satisfaction in our work. Who doesn't appreciate incremental promotions to a closer walk with God and resulting responsibilities to love others? Otherwise, WE become stagnant and bored. And incidentally in that process, God's pruning is incredibly effective.

Elsewhere, what do we do when we get a new job? Learn all we can so as to pull our weight as quickly as possible. Then what? We start, on our own initiative, fine-tuning our efforts for greater efficiency and results. Exactly as God does with us. The Great Potter.

Same with the pursuit of knowledge as you state. God gave us an ever-curious nature, so we love to discover and (like our Abba), create.

Every now and then I ponder where we are technologically. Every new invention I figure, OK, that's it, we've reached the pinnacle. As in today, surely the development of AI is one of the tops. In my mind, its potential is as wonderful as nuclear energy, and as frightening as a nuke. We could already blow ourselves up. Now mankind has even further means to pull the ultimate deception upon the world - enslaving it to the nth degree and dragging more and more into Hell.

Already, in photos and videos and what-not, we can't believe everything we see. No worries though, WE won't be deceived, because we continually fix our gaze upon the Truth Himself.

Ah well, just a few ramblings to spark further discussion. Sorry if I've strayed from the OP. I sincerely agree that the possibilities of advancement in all aspects of existence in the next life, are gonna blow our minds - especially as God is pleased to reveal a wee bit at a time to motivate us. Who needs man's forms of entertainment when we have His? Perpetual joy indeed.

God bless!