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Not going to follow orthodox or catholic church but have question on priesthood

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mikeforjesus

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I am not going to follow orthodox or catholic church because it does not meet people where they are as christ taught He does to the samaritan woman that does not give assurance if person effort is enough to see a priest for him to be saved. That also if one converts to orthodox and catholic church and is baptised and has communion in a prison does not give assurance for how often person must seek communion when he may no be able to in a prison

But I did think to test catholic church but I have problem with being assured a person is truly received if perhaps the priest who baptised him is not considered legitimate that does not the church teach there is requirements that should be met before being priest for it to be valid that what if he broke it and they still ordained him or he didn’t believe sincerly. Is there writings in the church fathers that say every priest ordination is valid? Chatgpt says augustine taught heresy or moral failure may make priest merits not valid but may mean just is a bad leader.

Or rather is the requirements made for the ordination of priests now not found in the fathers and if not can we conclude from this every priest ordination is valid.Also how can one know if he was worthy of conversion does not church teach person must fast and meet other requirements if one is catechumen before he is received into the church.

If you do not want to answer me because you don’t think I am worthy Jesus does not support you who says love your enemy and you are saved by grace not by works to be worthy.

And by this all will know you are My disciples if you have love for one another
 
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Michie

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mikeforjesus said:
I am not going to follow orthodox or catholic church because it does not meet people where they are as christ taught He does to the samaritan woman that does not give assurance if person effort is enough to see a priest for him to be saved. That also if one converts to orthodox and catholic church and is baptised and has communion in a prison does not give assurance for how often person must seek communion when he may no be able to in a prison
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??? Huh? The church does meet people where they are. Not sure where you get that. You seen to have a lot of misunderstandings concerning the church. I’m not sure I understand your post. See a priest to be saved? Go into a prison? :scratch:
mikeforjesus said:
But I did think to test catholic church but I have problem with being assured a person is truly received if perhaps the priest who baptised him is not considered legitimate that does not the church teach there is requirements that should be met before being priest for it to be valid that what if he broke it and they still ordained him or he didn’t believe sincerly. Is there writings in the church fathers that say every priest ordination is valid? Chatgpt says augustine taught heresy or moral failure may make priest merits not valid but may mean just is a bad leader.
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Every priest in the Catholic Church is a valid priest. Regardless if people think he is is a good leader or not. Which makes baptisms, valid, etc. if performed as the Church instructs. Why are you listening to chat gpt and not going to Catholic sources?
mikeforjesus said:
Or rather is the requirements made for the ordination of priests now not found in the fathers and if not can we conclude from this every priest ordination is valid.Also how can one know if he was worthy of conversion does not church teach person must fast and meet other requirements if one is catechumen before he is received into the church.

If you do not want to answer me because you don’t think I am worthy Jesus does not support you who says love your enemy and you are saved by grace not by works to be worthy.

And by this all will know you are My disciples if you have love for one another
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I have no idea why this should concern you. If the priest is ordained by the Church he is a valid priest. Are any of us worthy of conversion?? I think the first thing you need to do is learn about the Church from Catholic sources as you seem to have a lot of misconceptions about it. :praying:
 
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mikeforjesus

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Thankyou Michie for helpful reply. Supposing then I am wrong that baptism by desire is enough in difficult situations that one lives far from priest and difficult to travel or one dies before being able to go to church if he had desire even if cant judge if made enough effort to give assurance to get last rites then that is good then is option to be catholic but church I think still teaches you have to seek to go to church to be baptised if you can but you cant judge to give assurance if person made enough effort if dies before so then church does not meet where is but supposing not required that to desire and any effort is enough is an option and it is option for me to teach can be catholic but I am not going to be that I trust God justice to accept others the same.
 
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Gnarwhal

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mikeforjesus said:
But I did think to test catholic church but I have problem with being assured a person is truly received if perhaps the priest who baptised him is not considered legitimate that does not the church teach there is requirements that should be met before being priest for it to be valid that what if he broke it and they still ordained him or he didn’t believe sincerly. Is there writings in the church fathers that say every priest ordination is valid? Chatgpt says augustine taught heresy or moral failure may make priest merits not valid but may mean just is a bad leader.
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There's an old heresy from that Church confronted in the 4th century called Donatism, which claimed that the legitimacy of the Sacraments depended on the righteousness of the priest. They essentially believed that sinful priests couldn't confect the Sacraments. The Church, however, follows the principle of ex opere oeprato which means that the efficacy of the Sacraments comes from Christ, not the priest.

mikeforjesus said:
Thankyou Michie for helpful reply. Supposing then I am wrong that baptism by desire is enough in difficult situations that one lives far from priest and difficult to travel or one dies before being able to go to church if he had desire even if cant judge if made enough effort to give assurance to get last rites then that is good then is option to be catholic but church I think still teaches you have to seek to go to church to be baptised if you can but you cant judge to give assurance if person made enough effort if dies before so then church does not meet where is but supposing not required that to desire and any effort is enough is an option and it is option for me to teach can be catholic but I am not going to be that I trust God justice to accept others the same.
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In emergency situations baptism can be performed by anyone, a priest isn't expressly required but it is preferred. But, for example, if you have a child born and that child tragically is dying, you can baptize that baby right then and there so long as you have the right matter (water) and use the right form (words). You would sprinkle some water on his or her forehead and say "I baptize you, [name], in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." That baptism would be valid.

If someone was in a more dire situation like you describe, like they're alone on a desert island then I suppose a baptism of desire would apply because there was just no other way for them obtain a true baptism.
 
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mikeforjesus said:
Thankyou Michie for helpful reply. Supposing then I am wrong that baptism by desire is enough in difficult situations that one lives far from priest and difficult to travel or one dies before being able to go to church if he had desire even if cant judge if made enough effort to give assurance to get last rites then that is good then is option to be catholic but church I think still teaches you have to seek to go to church to be baptised if you can but you cant judge to give assurance if person made enough effort if dies before so then church does not meet where is but supposing not required that to desire and any effort is enough is an option and it is option for me to teach can be catholic but I am not going to be that I trust God justice to accept others the same.
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Can you call a priest to discuss your concerns? That is the best thing to do if you can.
 
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mikeforjesus

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Thanks but as I said am not seeking to follow catholic church as I trust God justice but that is an option for another as I am seeking answers to help others have assurance if they wanted to know if catholic church will accept them but there still does seem to be concern that God does not meet you where you are in the sense of being fully available to work out your salvation without efforts to join church as Gnarwhal shows baptism by desire is not sufficient if you can seek to go to church but one can not judge to give assurance one is accepted now that cant judge if made enough effort if one was to die before
 
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mikeforjesus said:
Thanks but as I said am not seeking to follow catholic church as I trust God justice but that is an option for another as I am seeking answers to help others have assurance if they wanted to know if catholic church will accept them but there still does seem to be concern that God does not meet you where you are in the sense of being fully available to work out your salvation without efforts to join church as Gnarwal shows baptism by desire is not sufficient if you can seek to go to church but one can not judge to give assurance one is accepted now that cant judge if made enough effort if one was to die before
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Baptism by desire is sufficient but it is up to the Lord to make that call. My suggestion to you is to pick up a catechism to clarify things for you. God bless!
 
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