Most Protestants, Catholics back Trump over Harris: poll

Michie · Sep 11, 2024

A new survey from the Pew Research Center shows that while most Protestants and Catholics intend to support former President Donald Trump in the 2024 presidential election, voters of most other religious backgrounds plan on backing Vice President Kamala Harris.

Pew released the results of a poll of 9,720 adults in the United States conducted from Aug. 26-Sept. 2. While the survey looked at the overall state of the presidential race with two months to go until Election Day, it also analyzed preferences for each major candidate among religious subgroups.

Trump, the Republican nominee for president, leads Harris, the Democratic nominee, among both Catholics and Protestants as a whole. Fifty-two percent of Catholics plan to support Trump compared to 47% for Harris. Meanwhile, Trump has 61% support among Protestants in contrast to Harris’ 37%.

Continued below.

Most Protestants, Catholics back Trump over Harris: poll

A new survey from the Pew Research Center shows that while most Protestants and Catholics intend to support former President Donald Trump in the 2024 presidential election, voters of most other

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Fantine · Sep 11, 2024

It's said that western European nations are often classified as practicing "secular humanism."

And, sadly, secular humanism is doing a much better job at preventing gun and other violence, lowering rates of poverty, homelessness, and hunger, and having societies that are often classified as the happiest on earth. College education is free (although one must pass entrance tests) and health care is universal.

If the Gospel message of Jesus is superior to secular humanism--and I strongly believe it is--then why can't Catholics and Evangelical Protestants keep their members? Why are there so many "nones" today--atheists, agnostics, etc.

The answer seems obvious to me--and when "nones" are polled they say the same. They talk of hypocrisy. They talk of Christianity's failure to address the common good.

There are some saints among us--Pope Francis first and foremost--who are able to reach the unchurched, because he is so seamlessly and authentically Christian. Because he lives the Gospel message of Jesus.

I am glad that there are Catholics, mainstream Protestants, and a smaller percentage of evangelicals who have kept their priorities in check and are turning their backs to the extreme anger, negativity, and dishonesty of the Republican message we saw last night on the debate stage.

I pray that people of faith will mirror the unconditional love, mercy and kindness of Jesus to all Americans in the future--but this poll is discouraging to me.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Sep 11, 2024

Fantine said:
It's said that western European nations are often classified as practicing "secular humanism."

And, sadly, secular humanism is doing a much better job at preventing gun and other violence, lowering rates of poverty, homelessness, and hunger, and having societies that are often classified as the happiest on earth. College education is free (although one must pass entrance tests) and health care is universal.

If the Gospel message of Jesus is superior to secular humanism--and I strongly believe it is--then why can't Catholics and Evangelical Protestants keep their members? Why are there so many "nones" today--atheists, agnostics, etc.

The answer seems obvious to me--and when "nones" are polled they say the same. They talk of hypocrisy. They talk of Christianity's failure to address the common good.

There are some saints among us--Pope Francis first and foremost--who are able to reach the unchurched, because he is so seamlessly and authentically Christian. Because he lives the Gospel message of Jesus.

I am glad that there are Catholics, mainstream Protestants, and a smaller percentage of evangelicals who have kept their priorities in check and are turning their backs to the extreme anger, negativity, and dishonesty of the Republican message we saw last night on the debate stage.

I pray that people of faith will mirror the unconditional love, mercy and kindness of Jesus to all Americans in the future--but this poll is discouraging to me.

Or it could be that people are drawn to the easy option and compromising Christianity to appeal to the desires of secularists is foolish. You may desire Christianity to fundamentally change its morality but most Christians do not.

Your view of unconditional love is not Christian Fantine. Not embracing your values is not evidence of not being loving.

Fantine · Sep 11, 2024

Would Jesus say feeding, the hungry, sheltering the homeless, comforting the sorrowful is "compromising Chtistianity?" I daresay he would call it integral to Christianity.
Are immigrants "invaders?" Or are those Mother Teresa would call "Jesus in his distressing disguise?"
Did Jesus speak to the crowds about hate and fear? Or love and trust?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Sep 11, 2024

Fantine said:
Would Jesus say feeding, the hungry, sheltering the homeless, comforting the sorrowful is "compromising Chtistianity?" I daresay he would call it integral to Christianity.
Are immigrants "invaders?" Or are those Mother Teresa would call "Jesus in his distressing disguise?"
Did Jesus speak to the crowds about hate and fear? Or love and trust?

Yeah but you seem to think this means that the responsibility to do these things is on the government which taxes people in order to fund these programs. Your love is nothing more than the redistribution of others resources in which you have no stake and are unaffected by. It's not so much love as it is virtue signaling.

Bu the way. Respond with quotes. Why do you not do this? Is it to avoid actually addressing people directly so they can't respond?

Your vision of Christianity is to merely conform it to the DNC. Nothing more because that's all you actually stand for.

Fantine · Sep 11, 2024

In a global society with 8 billion people, supporting a just society focusing on the common good is most likely to help.the greatest number.
If you are in the midst of a Florida hurricane, the local churches will be struggling, too.
How many Gazans are in a position to help other Gazans?

How many Christians in the 15% tax bracket would give that extra 5% to their church if there were no income tax? How many even tithe now?

Private charity certainly has a place--one reason why churches get government tax exemptions.

But the success of churches to alleviate desperate poverty has been minimal at best. In Central America, to our shame, priests often sided with authoritarian dictators instead of desperate families.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Sep 11, 2024

Fantine said:
In a global society with 8 billion people, supporting a just society focusing on the common good is most likely to help.the greatest number.
If you are in the midst of a Florida hurricane, the local churches will be struggling, too.
How many Gazans are in a position to help other Gazans?

How many Christians in the 15% tax bracket would give that extra 5% to their church if there were no income tax? How many even tithe now?

Private charity certainly has a place--one reason why churches get government tax exemptions.

But the success of churches to alleviate desperate poverty has been minimal at best. In Central America, to our shame, priests often sided with authoritarian dictators instead of desperate families.

So your accusation is that only Christians don't give back to society? Seems like you regard Christians as awful people Fantine. How much money have you personally donated to Gazans?

iarwain · Sep 12, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Yeah but you seem to think this means that the responsibility to do these things is on the government which taxes people in order to fund these programs. Your love is nothing more than the redistribution of others resources in which you have no stake and are unaffected by. It's not so much love as it is virtue signaling.

Yeah, it's more Robin Hood than scriptual. Anyway, who has said Republicans don't want to help the poor? It's true they don't want to leave our border open.

Fantine · Sep 12, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
So your accusation is that only Christians don't give back to society? Seems like you regard Christians as awful people Fantine. How much money have you personally donated to Gazans?

They give back...some, not most, give 10%. Some of that goes to fancy buildings, staff salaries. Bible school.
What's left might go to the needy.
So let's say your tax bill of $10K--an uneducated guess--was given back to you.
How much would you voluntarily give to the poor?
Most people would give very little... if any.
What did I give to Gaza? At least $100, not sure. This week I sent the same to a relative whose husband was in a desperate car accident. So sometimes I prioritize family in need.
That's why I am happy to pay my fair share of taxes for the privilege of living in a just soc iety.

Akita Suggagaki · Oct 9, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Yeah but you seem to think this means that the responsibility to do these things is on the government which taxes people in order to fund these programs

Some needs are to systemic and overwhelming and require a larger scale response than any individual or small group can coordinate.

Fantine said:
If the Gospel message of Jesus is superior to secular humanism--and I strongly believe it is--then why can't Catholics and Evangelical Protestants keep their members? Why are there so many "nones" today--atheists, agnostics, etc.

The answer seems obvious to me--and when "nones" are polled they say the same. They talk of hypocrisy. They talk of Christianity's failure to address the common good.

Yes, hypocrisy, co-opting Christianity to serve a political point of view or state of comfort.

Akita Suggagaki · Oct 9, 2024

Trump runs on America First which is just plural "Me First". He stokes the fears of " the "others" and dehumanizes them.

He justifies selfishness and pretty much is the poster boy. So naturally he is popular. He validates our lowest instincts.

He says it is OK. And now he even talks revenge, retribution.

It boggles my mind that Christians support him with such vigor. I get it that Harris is no ideal either. That one might reluctantly vote Trump because of the poor choice. But the enthusiasm and fanaticism around Trump is some kind of spiritual pathology

trophy33 · Oct 9, 2024

@Fantine the European social program is far away from 10% Christians imagine to pay "for the poor".

For example, the mandatory social and health insurance in my country is 45,4% from the gross salary. Thats without income tax which is another 15% for people with income below $ 63k a year and 23% for people who are above that.

I do not think the vast majority of Americans, even the pro-social ones, would agree to that. But sure, education is mostly free (or for just symbolic payment), healthcare is free, homelesness is rare, maternity leave is long, 25 days of paid vacation minimum, unemployment does not mean the existence crises etc.

The extremely poor and the extremely rich are mostly eliminated because of this and the vast majority of people is kind of somewhere around the same level of the middle class, so social differences are not so drastic like in the US cities.

jas3 · Oct 9, 2024

Fantine said:
If the Gospel message of Jesus is superior to secular humanism--and I strongly believe it is--then why can't Catholics and Evangelical Protestants keep their members? Why are there so many "nones" today--atheists, agnostics, etc.

Because many Protestant denominations, as well as much of Catholicism, have turned into a worse version of humanism which focuses on addressing secular, societal problems and sees traditional Christianity as more of a hindrance than anything. And if you're just at church to be in a humanist social club, why be a member of one that requires you to give up your Sunday morning? Or why be in one that won't change its traditions to suit one's secular sensibilities?

Michie · Oct 9, 2024

jas3 said:
Because many Protestant denominations, as well as much of Catholicism, have turned into a worse version of humanism which focuses on addressing secular, societal problems and sees traditional Christianity as more of a hindrance than anything. And if you're just at church to be in a humanist social club, why be a member of one that requires you to give up your Sunday morning? Or why be in one that won't change its traditions to suit one's secular sensibilities?

Believe me. There are those within the church working hard to change the actual teachings. Although many like to call it an evolution or deeper understanding of those teachings.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:8

RileyG · Oct 9, 2024

Michie said:
Believe me. There are those within the church working hard to change the actual teachings. Although many like to call it an evolution or deeper understanding of those teachings.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:8

Amen

Job 33:6 · Oct 10, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Yeah but you seem to think this means that the responsibility to do these things is on the government which taxes people in order to fund these programs. Your love is nothing more than the redistribution of others resources in which you have no stake and are unaffected by. It's not so much love as it is virtue signaling.

Bu the way. Respond with quotes. Why do you not do this? Is it to avoid actually addressing people directly so they can't respond?

Your vision of Christianity is to merely conform it to the DNC. Nothing more because that's all you actually stand for.

Isn't that what life is all about? Giving to the needy? Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Job 33:6 · Oct 10, 2024

trophy33 said:
@Fantine the European social program is far away from 10% Christians imagine to pay "for the poor".

For example, the mandatory social and health insurance in my country is 45,4% from the gross salary. Thats without income tax which is another 15% for people with income below $ 63k a year and 23% for people who are above that.

I do not think the vast majority of Americans, even the pro-social ones, would agree to that. But sure, education is mostly free (or for just symbolic payment), healthcare is free, homelesness is rare, maternity leave is long, 25 days of paid vacation minimum, unemployment does not mean the existence crises etc.

The extremely poor and the extremely rich are mostly eliminated because of this and the vast majority of people is kind of somewhere around the same level of the middle class, so social differences are not so drastic like in the US cities.

It can be pretty outrageous in the US. You can be in a village full of homeless people, walk 5 miles down the street and there are superstars partying on yachts. Quite bizarre sometimes.

Fantine · Oct 10, 2024

jas3 said:
Because many Protestant denominations, as well as much of Catholicism, have turned into a worse version of humanism which focuses on addressing secular, societal problems and sees traditional Christianity as more of a hindrance than anything. And if you're just at church to be in a humanist social club, why be a member of one that requires you to give up your Sunday morning? Or why be in one that won't change its traditions to suit one's secular sensibilities?

A Polish priest once told me "the church thrives under persecution." The poor, enslaved, exploited, refugees need God.
And I kind of think this is why Christian conservatives want small government. The penniless and persecuted will fill the pews.
I think that is such a cynical view--poor people looking for a wish-granting God.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think we can lift people up on earth and help them go beyond the "genie" God.
Acts says "see how these Christians love one another." Let's inspire people with our love, not keep them penniless.

Vambram · Oct 10, 2024

Fantine said:
A Polish priest once told me "the church thrives under persecution." The poor, enslaved, exploited, refugees need God.
And I kind of think this is why Christian conservatives want small government. The penniless and persecuted will fill the pews.
I think that is such a cynical view--poor people looking for a wish-granting God.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think we can lift people up on earth and help them go beyond the "genie" God.
Acts says "see how these Christians love one another." Let's inspire people with our love, not keep them penniless.

I have been a Christian conservative for 47 years. I do NOT know of any Christian conservative .... anywhere... who wants small government so that people will be persecuted and poor. I have no clue why you might "kind of think" what you posted.

jas3 · Oct 10, 2024

Fantine said:
And I kind of think this is why Christian conservatives want small government. The penniless and persecuted will fill the pews.
I think that is such a cynical view--poor people looking for a wish-granting God.

I can't think of a way to respond to this that doesn't insult your intelligence beyond what you've already attributed to yourself.

Most Protestants, Catholics back Trump over Harris: poll

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