Israel eliminates Hamas' leader... in Tehran

Jamdoc · Jul 31, 2024

This is crazy stuff going on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-killed-iran-hamas-says-statement-2024-07-31/

Earlier they got the Chief of Staff of Hezbollah (3rd in command) in Beirut, now Haniyeh who they've been trying to get for years, but was in Tehran for the swearing in of the new Iranian president. They flew in an airstrike and nailed him, usually he hid in Qatar or Turkey where Israel wouldn't touch them because they're US allies. But Beirut and Tehran? After those druze kids got killed? The gloves came off. Like a torch of fire in a sheaf indeed.

Pommer · Jul 31, 2024

After we kill all of your leaders, we’re going to ask you to stop fighting, or else we’ll have to continue killing people until we get our way
It doesn’t seem like it that would be sustainable, even as the world is constituted these days.

And no, this is not a condemnation of Israel, rather just how utterly incomprehensible war makes humans…this “reasoning” seems to make sense, because that’s how wars are fought.

ThatRobGuy · Jul 31, 2024

Pommer said:
After we kill all of your leaders, we’re going to ask you to stop fighting, or else we’ll have to continue killing people until we get our way
It doesn’t seem like it that would be sustainable, even as the world is constituted these days.

Taking out low level people on either side hasn't been shown to be sustainable either.

So I can somewhat see the position of "you gotta cut the head off the snake" as while that's never a guarantee of ending it, it's at least a 50/50 chance of creating "the beginning of the end" as if you get their "idea men" and "strategists" out of the picture, the other side's days are somewhat numbered with no captain steering the ship and no organization if they can't quickly find someone else to fill the previous person's shoes with the same degree of efficacy.

That's why, even within US criminal justice, they want the top guys. They'd rather get the drug kingpin and his "inner circle" than they would 200 street-level dealers and middle men.

And it also sends a message that "the boss isn't untouchable", which could make someone think twice about wanting to take their spot.

Laodicean60 · Jul 31, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
And it also sends a message that "the boss isn't untouchable", which could make someone think twice about wanting to take their spot.

There is always someone ready to step up and in this case, it's for Religion.

wing2000 · Jul 31, 2024

The Palestinian militant group and Iran's Revolutionary Guards confirmed Haniyeh's death. The Guards said it took place hours after he attended a swearing-in ceremony for Iran's new president.

That doesn't install confidence in Iran's security services...the Iranian leaders will wonder if they are next....

ThatRobGuy · Jul 31, 2024

wing2000 said:
The Palestinian militant group and Iran's Revolutionary Guards confirmed Haniyeh's death. The Guards said it took place hours after he attended a swearing-in ceremony for Iran's new president.

That doesn't install confidence in Iran's security services...the Iranian leaders will wonder if they are next....

That's very true...

Given that the perception has always been "they're the powerhouse in the region", if that can happen under their watch, that makes them look a bit like a "paper tiger"...similar to how Russia was exposed a bit in that regard during their invasion of Ukraine. The conventional wisdom and speculators thought that exchange was going to be over in a matter of weeks (some even said days), yet here they still, still trying to take Ukraine and not having a huge amount of success in doing so.

It's definitely an "egg on face" moment for Iran.

durangodawood · Jul 31, 2024

Pommer said:
After we kill all of your leaders, we’re going to ask you to stop fighting, or else we’ll have to continue killing people until we get our way
It doesn’t seem like it that would be sustainable, even as the world is constituted these days.

And no, this is not a condemnation of Israel, rather just how utterly incomprehensible war makes humans…this “reasoning” seems to make sense, because that’s how wars are fought.

Problem is we have examples of that being successful. Japan. Germany. US Civil War even. We simply exhausted their will and/or capacity to fight. And the long term outcome has generally worked out.

We keep hoping other wars will go that way, but they typically dont.

Jamdoc · Jul 31, 2024

Pommer said:
After we kill all of your leaders, we’re going to ask you to stop fighting, or else we’ll have to continue killing people until we get our way
It doesn’t seem like it that would be sustainable, even as the world is constituted these days.

And no, this is not a condemnation of Israel, rather just how utterly incomprehensible war makes humans…this “reasoning” seems to make sense, because that’s how wars are fought.

Well when the enemy's terms are "march you into the sea" and "belong in the gas chambers" and it's a war for survival, you do what you have to do to survive.

Jamdoc · Jul 31, 2024

wing2000 said:
The Palestinian militant group and Iran's Revolutionary Guards confirmed Haniyeh's death. The Guards said it took place hours after he attended a swearing-in ceremony for Iran's new president.

That doesn't install confidence in Iran's security services...the Iranian leaders will wonder if they are next....

Yup, Israel has demonstrated they can hit in Iran from the air without being detected, and it isn't learned about until it's too late.
It's also demonstrated recently it can defend against hundreds of missiles and drones from Iran and even strike back protected areas within Iran in retaliation if it wishes, and Iran is powerless to stop them.

Really what's been demonstrated is the gap in power between Iran and Israel and Iran should reconsider their footing and move for peace.
But they won't, and it's going to end badly for them.
Jeremiah 49 perhaps?

Merrill · Jul 31, 2024

Pommer said:
After we kill all of your leaders, we’re going to ask you to stop fighting, or else we’ll have to continue killing people until we get our way
It doesn’t seem like it that would be sustainable, even as the world is constituted these days.

And no, this is not a condemnation of Israel, rather just how utterly incomprehensible war makes humans…this “reasoning” seems to make sense, because that’s how wars are fought.

wait, so the political left is suddenly against war again?

when did that happen?

pretty sure Biden and Harris want an expansion and escalation of wars around the world, including Ukraine and Israel, dolling out billions to the military industrial complex in the process

yeah, war is really bad. Vote for Kamala in November and you are going to have a lot more of it

Laodicean60 · Jul 31, 2024

Merrill said:
wait, so the political left is suddenly against war again?

Where in his statement does he mention the left?

Laodicean60 · Jul 31, 2024

durangodawood said:
Problem is we have examples of that being successful.

We can reminisce about history but is this war ending anytime soon?

wing2000 · Jul 31, 2024

Jamdoc said:
Yup, Israel has demonstrated they can hit in Iran from the air without being detected, and it isn't learned about until it's too late.
It's also demonstrated recently it can defend against hundreds of missiles and drones from Iran and even strike back protected areas within Iran in retaliation if it wishes, and Iran is powerless to stop them.

Really what's been demonstrated is the gap in power between Iran and Israel and Iran should reconsider their footing and move for peace.
But they won't, and it's going to end badly for them.
Jeremiah 49 perhaps?

IMO, Isreal and specifically, Netanyahu, has just eliminated any chance of a peace deal between Hamas and Israel. It appears Netanyahu wants a conflict....

Merrill · Jul 31, 2024

wing2000 said:
IMO, Isreal and specifically, Netanyahu, has just eliminated any chance of a peace deal between Hamas and Israel. It appears Netanyahu wants a conflict....

for once we agree

Jamdoc · Jul 31, 2024

wing2000 said:
IMO, Isreal and specifically, Netanyahu, has just eliminated any chance of a peace deal between Hamas and Israel. It appears Netanyahu wants a conflict....

There has never, and will never be a chance of peace between Hamas and Israel, Hamas's express goal is the elimination of the state of Israel. Period. Israel cannot coexist with Hamas because Hamas does not recognize the right of Israel to exist.
They're not out for a "Palestinian state" they're out for "no Jewish state"
You can't appease them unless your means of "appeasement" is every single Jew in Israel voluntarily walks out into the Mediterranean Sea and drowns themselves.

the "two state solution" is a liberal delusion that neither side wants, though Israel tried it with the Oslo accords.

durangodawood · Jul 31, 2024

Jamdoc said:
.....the "two state solution" is a liberal delusion that neither side wants, though Israel tried it with the Oslo accords.

...that neither government wants. These sides will outlast their current govts almost certainly. Hamas was voted in but it's stuck around beyond its popular mandate, tho it does have ardent supporters.

Pommer · Jul 31, 2024

Merrill said:
wait, so the political left is suddenly against war again?

Look, friend, I do not speak for “the political left”, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t assume that.

Ana the Ist · Jul 31, 2024

Jamdoc said:
This is crazy stuff going on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-killed-iran-hamas-says-statement-2024-07-31/

Earlier they got the Chief of Staff of Hezbollah (3rd in command) in Beirut, now Haniyeh who they've been trying to get for years, but was in Tehran for the swearing in of the new Iranian president. They flew in an airstrike and nailed him, usually he hid in Qatar or Turkey where Israel wouldn't touch them because they're US allies. But Beirut and Tehran? After those druze kids got killed? The gloves came off. Like a torch of fire in a sheaf indeed.

Don't underestimate Israel.

Jamdoc · Aug 1, 2024

durangodawood said:
...that neither government wants. These sides will outlast their current govts almost certainly. Hamas was voted in but it's stuck around beyond its popular mandate, tho it does have ardent supporters.

When hostages are being held in Doctor's and Journalist's homes, and the people were parading in the streets as kidnapped victims were being rolled into Gaza.. I'd say the majority of people in Gaza still support Hamas and are just as guilty as them.
That's another liberal delusion:
That the "palestinians" are peace loving people until Israel came after them without any cause on October 8th!

Nithavela · Aug 1, 2024

Sinwar next, please.

Israel eliminates Hamas' leader... in Tehran

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