Why is John's gospel so much different

Yet Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ (believers)shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The word lawlessness here means sin

anomia: lawlessness
Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Definition: lawlessness
Usage: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

Its the same word in 1 John 3:4 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Its not true that everyone who believes (surface belief) in Jesus does not sin as Jesus tells us this in His own Words.

Also if we believe in Jesus we would believe in His teachings and not change them such as:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

And obviously the Ten Commandments is part of the law that is written in our heart because Jesus in His own Words said when we keep our rules over obeying the commandments of God, our hearts are far from Him, which is the opposite of the New Covenant- God's law written in our hearts Heb 8:10

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Right from the Ten Exo 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30

Its hard to make the case we believe in Jesus but not His teachings or His example to live and do them. Mat 4:4 James 1:22

God's law is there to show us our sins so we are not depending on our righteous way of living but on God's standard Psa 119:172 if we are living in Christ we would not be arguing against obedience to His commandments John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Rom 8:7-8 John 15:10 1 John 2:3-6

I have heard too many self-called Christians who claim they are saved, they can't sin and think its okay to commit adultery or break other of God's laws. We do not judge ourselves Jesus makes that clear, which is why we need to be careful claiming someone who believes in Jesus can't sin, but yet does not keep God's law nor feels guilty of breaking God's law, that's a scary place to be in come Judgement Day Heb 10:26-30

If we are in Christ, sin should be painful because look what it did to Christ on the Cross. He didn't die so we can continue in sin, He died because the blood of animals could never take away sin, but the blood of Christ can. We too must die with Christ and be reborn - we have to have a conversion, sin separates us from God Isa 59:2, we need to repent of our sins 1 John 1:9 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 and forsake them Pro 28:13, true repentance means a change of mind and a change of direction. We can't do it in our own strength but we can through Christ Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18

fli said:

As this post states you have to be careful which scriptures apply to His church.

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

That scripture tells me where you are. You , sir, are under the law. We are not in the same kingdom. I am not under the law as you are . As this post states you have to be careful which scriptures apply to His church.

Its the same word in 1 John 3:4 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

In my bible that word translated lawlessness means to transgress the law. Since you are under the law you can transgress the law. I am safe because I am not under the law.


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ (believers)shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The people in the above scripture are not calling on Jesus to save them. The word translated wonders means wonderful works. They are citing works to save them. Anyone citing works to save them will not enter heaven.

Click to expand...

Many misunderstand Paul by the meaning of "under the law" its not as if one set of people can vain God's name, murder, covet or break the least of these commandments as Jesus taught not to, and the other group can't. Or one group can ignore the teachings of Jesus when He said to keep the commandments quoting from the Ten, but the other group can't. This is a very dangerous teaching my friend.

Paul is referring to not being under the condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23 That still applies today. Mat 7:23 Rev 22:15

Christ gives us another option- if we have a right relationship with Him, would we be worshipping other gods, taking His holy name in vain, bowing to idols, breaking His holy Sabbath day, committing murder, stealing, coveting or breaking the least of these as Jesus taught us not to Mat 5:19-30. Absolutely not.

Which is why Paul contrasts those walking in the spirit to those walking in the flesh. Those who are walking in the flesh are not subject to God's law or indeed can be- a dangerous place to be. Mat 7:23 Rev 22:15 Heb 10:26-30 1 John 2:4

Rom 8: 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We need to be spiritually minded which is life and peace. How do we find this? Jesus in His own Words tells us, that sadly people reject, which is a lack of belief and faith

How do we find life according to Jesus:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, [e]“Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

How do we find peace according to Christ?

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

This is the path that leads one to reconciliation

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Paul never taught we can break God's commandments- he is hard to understand so we need to be careful with his teachings especially if they are not in harmony with what Jesus taught and lived.

Paul taught the same path and choices:

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

We are not saved by the law- we are saved by the blood of Jesus through faith- keeping God's law is a consequence of faith. Rev 14:12

fli said:

Why is the gospel of John so different?

Click to expand...

Because it is written to Greeks (Gentiles) to declare that the despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is that eternal logos of Greek philosophy (whom they considered to be the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe), source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us (Jn 1:1, 14).

fli said:

The three synoptic gospels start different than John. Jesus' message of each of the synoptic gospels doesn't start until after an introduction of Jesus' ancestry and John the Baptist's message. After that the gospels will follow Jesus as He interacts with the nation of Israel. Jesus is sent to the nation of Israel. He is talking to and interacting with people who are, for the most part, sinners under the law, therefore, they are sinning. The NT does not start until Jesus dies. Therefore, caution has to be used when applying scriptures to His church.

Click to expand...

fli said:

. . .Therefore, in general, the main gospel that can be applied to His church is the gospel of John. The other gospels, except where He deals with His disciples and a few other places, does not apply to His church.

Click to expand...

Who made that rule?

fli said:

Example: Luke 13:2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. NKJV

The above message cannot be applied to His bride because His bride is righteous. Jesus was talking to people under to law and still in sin. His bride's sins are forgiven, and her sins are covered by Jesus' blood.

Click to expand...

There was no NT church, no bride, no new covenant, etc. until after the death of Jesus, when they were then established by his atonement on the cross which forgives the sin of those who believe in him and in his atoning work for the remission of their sin.

Jesus is sent to the people of God.
God has only one people, the one olive tree of Ro 11:17-23, those who believe in (the promise) Jesus Christ (Seed, Ge 15:5, Gal 3:16).
Those who do not are not God's people.

fli said:

Mr. SabbathBlessings,

Still under the law I see. Your wrong about people misunderstanding what Paul said about not being under the law, The truth is established by 2 witnesses. Know that you can get more witnesses that say 'Do the commandments' and the like. Since we are not under the law they do not apply to the church.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. NKJV


The yoke of bondage Paul is referencing is the law. If we were under the law we would have a yoke of bondage. The law comes as a unit. If God put us under the law we would have to do all of it, that's why it's referred to as a yoke of bondage.


Acts 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? NKJV


The yoke of bondage the Jerusalem council was referring to is the law.


The truth is established by 2 witnesses. Below are 2 more. I know that you can get more witnesses that say 'Do the commandments' and the like. Since we are not under the law they do not apply to the church.

Click to expand...

The saints are not His Church? Where did you get that idea?

Rev 14:15 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Those going into the gates of heaven not His church? But the ones outside the gates of heaven are? Rev 22:14-15 I think someone has it backwards.

It does show His Church is the minority and what they do and who is against them- so we need to decide which side of the battle are we on.

Rev 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (His Chruch), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

fli said:

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? NKJV

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. NKJV



Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! NKJV


So, there is three witnesses that clearly state we are not under the law. 4 if you count the verses it's stated in.

Ms. Clare73,


As to your argument that the church didn't come into being until Jesus died. The gospel of John is guesstimated to have been written around 90ad. That means John could well have written it with the main audience being the church. I know the rudiments of the three synoptic being written three different ethnic groups. My observation does not deny that can still be true.

The wedding is written so the church knows that the third day after beginning of Jesus ministry there will be a wedding in which the apostles are invited to. That must be the wedding of Jesus and His bride.


Now since a day of the God is a thousand years. If they have the date of Jesus' birth right, that means the wedding can happen anytime after 2030.

Click to expand...

Can you please point out where circumcision is anywhere in the Ten Commandments? Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God, not circumcision. 1 Cor 7:19 Your two witnesses are the same witness Paul and taken out of context. For every perceived teaching of Paul on lawlessness, Paul quotes the opposite. Rom 8:7-8 Rom 2:13. 1 Cor 7:19 Either Paul is constantly contradicting himself and the teachings of Jesus or the warning we are given regarding how Paul is hard to understand that people twist is something to take more serious 2 Peter 3:16. I believe in the latter.

Do you really believe that Paul has more authority than Jesus. Jesus never taught lawlessness- He said those practice it, will not see heaven. Mat 7:23 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19 , it’s something I would consider in prayer. Jesus taught we need to keep God’s commandments Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 7:23 John 14:15 John 15:10 Exo 20:6 its a constant theme throughout the whole scriptures until the Revelation of Jesus Christ Rev 22:14-15. Only Jesus can save, He is where we should place our faith. The question is if we love Jesus and believe in Him, why would we not want to obey Him and keep His commandments? 1 John 5:3 Why would we not want to follow His teachings or the example He left for us. 1 John 2:6

The Apostle John was different in a special way. He was "the disciple whom Jesus loved" for a reason.

[Jhn 13:23 NIV] One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him.
[Jhn 19:26 NIV] When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby,
[Jhn 21:7 NIV] Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord!"
[Jhn 21:20 NIV] Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them.

That quality comes out in the Gospel of John.

I came to faith in Christ 40 years ago by reading the Gospel of John. So, yeah it's my favorite Gospel, though I like them all.

[Jhn 21:24 NIV] This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

fli said:

Why is the gospel of John so different?

Click to expand...

This has to do with the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah.
Revelation 5 5 Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,

fli said:

Why is the gospel of John so different?


The three synoptic gospels start different than John. Jesus' message of each of the synoptic gospels doesn't start until after an introduction of Jesus' ancestry and John the Baptist's message. After that the gospels will follow Jesus as He interacts with the nation of Israel. Jesus is sent to the nation of Israel. He is talking to and interacting with people who are, for the most part, sinners under the law, therefore, they are sinning. The NT does not start until Jesus dies. Therefore, caution has to be used when applying scriptures to His church.


The gospel of John starts out before the world began introducing Jesus as the Word of God. Then John the Baptist's mission is described briefly. Next, the Word becomes flesh and His purpose is described briefly. Then there is a wedding taking place on the third day which is prophetic. It is also important that Jesus, to honor His earthly parent, pushed His hour ahead. Therefore, John could write of the doctrine after His hour. After the wedding Jesus cleanses the Temple. In chapter 3 John describes how the bride is chosen. His message is for His bride, righteous people not under the law. For the most part John's gospel applies to His church.


Therefore, in general, the main gospel that can be applied to His church is the gospel of John. The other gospels, except where He deals with His disciples and a few other places, does not apply to His church.


Example: Luke 13:2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. NKJV


The above message cannot be applied to His bride because His bride is righteous. Jesus was talking to people under to law and still in sin. His bride's sins are forgiven, and her sins are covered by Jesus' blood.

Another example: Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." NKJV


Jesus does not need to tell His bride to keep the commandments to enter life. Why is that?


Romans 4:6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV


Because the bride's righteousness is imputed to her through her faith, not works. She is ready to enter eternity.



Test: Can the following be applied to His bride?



Mark 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. 33 But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." NKJV



People do not rebuke God. Jesus called Peter Satan; he must have blasphemed.


























Yes, this can be applied to the church. What Jesus told Peter to do is the same thing as He tells His church to do when they make a mistake (sin). He wants His church to repent and walk in the Spirit (follow Him).

John 2:13 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!" 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up." NKJV



This definitely applies to His church and this placement is important. First thing after the wedding Jesus cleanses the temple. We are the temple of God. We are His fiancé, to the Jews we are considered His bride. Jesus does not require, it's good if we do, us to prepare His temple for His arrival (repent), He sprinkled His blood over everything and made it clean. After that we need to heed His voice and follow Him with a dustpan. He will clean His temple. He will put items in the dustpan for us to throw out. It is our job to let go of the things that He chooses to throw out. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, we ourselves will toss things out.

Do we have to clean the temple to be saved? No! If we had to clean the temple to be saved, it would be a works-based salvation. The problem arises if we do not want the temple cleaned. In that case we kick Jesus out of the Temple because He cannot leave the temple dirty. He will not leave on His own. Because He will get a clean temple even if He has to kill us to get it, some people will choose to kick Him out. Heaven is only for those who want it. He will not stay where His services are not welcomed.


John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." NKJV


Can the above be applied to His bride.


Not verses 19-20 because there is no condemnation for those who believe in Him. There are verses that I could cite, but here's the ultimate reason- because God says so. Under the new covenant anyone that believes in Jesus cannot sin. That is His law under the new covenant. Millions of unsaved people will scream “that's unfair.” His bride says “Praise God and thank you for Jesus. "Which group are you in?

Click to expand...

If you want to make Paul say the same thing as Jesus in his first coming regarding salvation, its easiest to use John to do that.

In Matthew, for example, it would have been impossible.

fli said:

Why is the gospel of John so different?

Click to expand...

Maybe because John was writing at a different time, to different people, for a different purpose.

fli said:

The three synoptic gospels start different than John. Jesus' message of each of the synoptic gospels doesn't start until after an introduction of Jesus' ancestry and John the Baptist's message.

Click to expand...

Mark does not include a genealogy.
Jesus' ministry obviously starts after John the Baptist because John came to baptise and to prepare the way for the Lord.

fli said:

After that the gospels will follow Jesus as He interacts with the nation of Israel. Jesus is sent to the nation of Israel. He is talking to and interacting with people who are, for the most part, sinners under the law, therefore, they are sinning. The NT does not start until Jesus dies.

Click to expand...

The NT begins with the Gospel of Matthew.

fli said:

Therefore, caution has to be used when applying scriptures to His church.

Click to expand...

So you don't think that any of the Gospels are in the NT and relevant to the church?

fli said:

Then there is a wedding taking place on the third day which is prophetic. It is also important that Jesus, to honor His earthly parent, pushed His hour ahead. Therefore, John could write of the doctrine after His hour. After the wedding Jesus cleanses the Temple.

Click to expand...

You realise that John's Gospel is not chronological? He arranged the material in a particular way to make his point.
It is more likely that the cleansing of the Temple happened after Jesus rode into Jerusalem, as the synoptic Gospels say. After that, the leaders were looking for a reason to kill him, and this led to the crucifixion a few days later (though it was not the reason for it.)

fli said:

In chapter 3 John describes how the bride is chosen. His message is for His bride, righteous people not under the law. For the most part John's gospel applies to His church.

Click to expand...

In John 3 Jesus says that a person cannot enter the Kingdom of God unless they are born again.
He does not say that this applies only to certain people and others will be excluded.

fli said:

Therefore, in general, the main gospel that can be applied to His church is the gospel of John. The other gospels, except where He deals with His disciples and a few other places, does not apply to His church.

Click to expand...

So the parables of the Good Samaritan and Prodigal Son are not for the church?
What about Jesus' miracles, when he healed Samaritans and foreigners? Those aren't for the church? We don't need to worry about those in other countries or those who aren't in the church?

Are you choosing which parts of God's word you will read/follow and which you will not?

fli said:

Example: Luke 13:2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. NKJV


The above message cannot be applied to His bride because His bride is righteous. Jesus was talking to people under to law and still in sin. His bride's sins are forgiven, and her sins are covered by Jesus' blood.

Click to expand...

Some people told Jesus about an incident where, it seems, Pilate had killed some Jews and mixed their blood, with sacrificed animals.
The implication was that these murdered people had been bad/evil and deserved to be punished. The belief then was that sinful people were punished by illness/hard times/death, e.g. Job. This belief is still held today - how many, when faced with suffering, say "what have I done to deserve this?"

It also seems that those people had been killed suddenly, or unexpectedly. The message, "repent now for you do not know when you will die, or how short your life may be" is relevant to all today. In Mark's Gospel, Jesus' first words were of repentance.

fli said:

Another example: Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." NKJV

Click to expand...

Look at the context of the passage to understand what Jesus is saying.
A man asked Jesus, "what good thing must I DO to get eternal life?" Jesus replied, "keep the commandments" and the man asked, "which ones?"
(I don't know what nationality the man was; I can't imagine a Jew asking "which commandments do I keep?")
In reply, Jesus listed the last 5 of the 10 commandments and concluded "love your neighbour as yourself". He did not mention the first 2; love God and do not have any idols. Then he told the man to sell his possessions and give to the poor. At this point, the man walked sadly away - why? Because he had great wealth. His "idol" was his wealth; love of that came before his love for God.
Jesus then taught that it is hard for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of God.

The man wanted to DO something to get eternal life. But God, and showing love for God, comes first before anything else.
He was not prepared to let go of his idol; money.

fli said:

Jesus does not need to tell His bride to keep the commandments to enter life. Why is that?

Click to expand...

And yet he later said to his disciples, "if you love me, keep my commandments", John 14:15.

fli said:

Romans 4:6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV


Because the bride's righteousness is imputed to her through her faith, not works. She is ready to enter eternity.

Click to expand...

When Jesus spoke these words, he had not yet died and there was no understanding that the church was the bride of Christ.

fli said:

Test: Can the following be applied to His bride?

Mark 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. 33 But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." NKJV

Click to expand...

This passage records that Jesus told his 12 disciples that he was going to suffer, be rejected by the religious leaders and be killed.
Peter protested.
a) he had just confessed Jesus to be the Messiah - and the Jewish belief was that the Messiah could not die. So those words didn't make sense.
b) Jesus was his friend, as well as teacher; of course he didn't want to think that his friend was going to suffer and die. If your friend said to you, "I'm going to be killed/stabbed" or "I'm going to get cancer and die", would you say "go on then", or would you rebuke them for being pessimistic?

fli said:

People do not rebuke God. Jesus called Peter Satan; he must have blasphemed.

Click to expand...

The disciples did not even fully realise that Jesus was the Messiah; they didn't know he was God. The first person to address Jesus as God was Thomas, after the resurrection.

The suggestion that Jesus avoid the cross came from Satan.
And it's not true to say that people do not rebuke God. Job did not curse God, but he did curse the day of his birth and that he had been given life. He also asked God why he had allowed all his suffering. The Psalms are full of phrases like "why did you abandon me?" (Psalm 22, quoted by Jesus on the cross.)
Moses and Abraham also argued with God.

fli said:

Yes, this can be applied to the church. What Jesus told Peter to do is the same thing as He tells His church to do when they make a mistake (sin). He wants His church to repent and walk in the Spirit (follow Him).

Click to expand...

This describes a particular incident and none of us today will argue and tell Jesus that he won't die.
You seem to be reading a lot into this - as well as deciding that some Scriptures apply to us and others don't.

fli said:

John 2:13 Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!" 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up." NKJV



This definitely applies to His church

Click to expand...

Right, so we should all go into cathedrals, smash everything in the gift shop and remind everyone that the place is a house of prayer, should we?
In what way does it "apply" to us?

fli said:

and this placement is important. First thing after the wedding Jesus cleanses the temple.

Click to expand...

Like I said, John is arranging his material to make a point. It's unlikely that Jesus would have cleansed the temple before he had even started his ministry, healed anybody or taught anything. That would have turned people against him from the start.

fli said:

We are the temple of God.

Click to expand...

Something that was only taught much later on, by Paul.
No one who witnessed the cleansing of the Temple would have said "we are the Temple of God."

fli said:

We are His fiancé, to the Jews we are considered His bride. Jesus does not require, it's good if we do, us to prepare His temple for His arrival (repent), He sprinkled His blood over everything and made it clean.

Click to expand...

None of these ideas would have been understood at the time. You are reading into the passage - or spiritualising it.

fli said:

After that we need to heed His voice and follow Him with a dustpan. He will clean His temple. He will put items in the dustpan for us to throw out. It is our job to let go of the things that He chooses to throw out. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, we ourselves will toss things out.

Click to expand...

That's definitely reading into it.

fli said:

Do we have to clean the temple to be saved? No! If we had to clean the temple to be saved, it would be a works-based salvation. The problem arises if we do not want the temple cleaned. In that case we kick Jesus out of the Temple because He cannot leave the temple dirty. He will not leave on His own. Because He will get a clean temple even if He has to kill us to get it, some people will choose to kick Him out. Heaven is only for those who want it. He will not stay where His services are not welcomed.

Click to expand...

As is that.

fli said:

Not verses 19-20 because there is no condemnation for those who believe in Him. There are verses that I could cite, but here's the ultimate reason- because God says so. Under the new covenant anyone that believes in Jesus cannot sin. That is His law under the new covenant. Millions of unsaved people will scream “that's unfair.” His bride says “Praise God and thank you for Jesus. "Which group are you in?

Click to expand...

So are you actually asking about John's Gospel at all - as the title of the thread suggests?
Are you just concerned to show us that there are parts of the NT which you don't think apply to the church?
Or is your whole point that some are still under the law and some aren't?

fli said:

As this post states you have to be careful which scriptures apply to His church.

Click to expand...

No, it is your view that only certain Scriptures apply to the church.

fli said:

That scripture tells me where you are. You , sir, are under the law. We are not in the same kingdom.

Click to expand...

Who are you to judge?

fli said:

As this post states you have to be careful which scriptures apply to His church.

Click to expand...

Your post might state it; that doesn't mean it's correct.

fli said:

I am safe because I am not under the law.

Click to expand...

So you think you're free to break it?

Strong in Him said:

Mark does not include a genealogy.

Click to expand...

Mark was just a kid and Paul got mad at him for being a mamma's boy. I suppose everyone grows up somewhere along the way though.

Ace777 said:

Mark was just a kid and Paul got mad at him for being a mamma's boy. I suppose everyone grows up somewhere along the way though.

Click to expand...

But John doesn't include a genealogy either, and he wasn't "just a kid" when he wrote the gospel that bears his name. I understand that the exact date of Mark's gospel is unknown, but probably written long after he was "just a kid".

fli said:

Why is the gospel of John so different?

Click to expand...

I always understood that John's gospel talked about the divinity of the Lord, Mathew telling the Jews that the Messiah had arrived.

David Lamb said:

probably written long after he was "just a kid".

Click to expand...

Psalm 91 is attributed to Moses and yet it was not written until the time of David. The people that give us our Hebrew Bible say a lot of the Bible was oral tradition before it was written.

fli said:

Circumcision is not in the 10 commandments. I presume you are referring to Galatians 5 or Acts 15. Circumcision is not a yoke. You cut once and heal. Most people today are circumcised, and it doesn't give them a yoke as it is done for health reasons. The reason that Paul and the Jerusalem council calls it a yoke is that when you put your trust in circumcision you are burdened with the entire law. The law is the yoke. Paul taught that if you get circumcised you must keep the entire law as you have fallen from grace (lost salvation). James supports Paul in that the law is one unit. You get all of what Moses wrote in the law, including the 10 commandments. If you put your trust in one part of the law you get the entire law.

Click to expand...

Again circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments. It's separate from the Ten Commandments according to God Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Deut 5:22 God alone wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger. There is no Greater Authority than God Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18

Do you really believe only worshipping God is a yoke of bondage?
Keeping His name holy a yoke of bondage?
Not bowing to false idols a yoke of bondage?
God giving us rest on His Sabbath day a yoke of bondage?


Loving God is not a yoke of bondage but if one believes this may want to consider their relationship with God and who they are really worshipping.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

True bondage is the bondage of sin Rom 6:16 Jesus has done everything to help free us from, sadly many choose to stay in bondage over the freedom Christ gives. Its why the Ten Commandments are called the law of Liberty James 2:10-12 no longer a slave to sin, but free of sin walking in Christ through His Spirit John 14:15-18

fli said:

Yes, we should strive to keep the law. We should strive to keep the commandments, but Christians can substitute Sunday for Saturday. But the only commandment that we have to keep for salvation is in 1John 3:22 below. Explained below.

Click to expand...

So basically making one their own God.

God said this:
Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Mat 5:18 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Has Jesus come on the clouds yet to meet His bride? Heaven and earth are still here. therefore not a jot or tittle can be changed because we are not above God.

This really is such an arrogant teaching imho, God wrote His law with His own finger and said He would not change not even a dot of an i or cross of a t, but yet man thinks they know better than God to change His holy law that He personally wrote.

God's law was changed, just as predicted in the scriptures, but not by God Dan 7:25

The Sabbath links to who is our Creator, so we always know where we came from and who made us Exo 20:11 and that will never change and either will God's Sabbath Isa 66:23

fli said:

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." NKJV

Jesus said to do any works for God you have to believe in Him.


John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. NKJV


Jesus added a new commandment prior to His death.


1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

Click to expand...

Yet if we believe in Jesus we would believe His teachings such as His teachings not break the least of these commandments quoting from the Ten because when doing He says our heart is far from Him Mat 15:3-14 compared to true worship Rev 14:12 - it surprises me how many professed Christians gloss over these powerful teachings of Jesus. Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16, told us to keep the commandments and He is who I follow.

You are free to keep your own sabbath, based on mans authority but only God can sanctify us, we can't sanctify ourselves, and sadly so many people try.

Eze 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

fli said:

Verse 23 is the commandments we are to keep in the New Testament. In verse 22 the “and do things pleasing in His sight” is walking in the Spirit. But the commandments we must keep, as Jesus said, we must believe in a Him. And Jesus added love the brethren. These are the only two commandments we must keep. Every place in the NT where it states to keep the commandments these two are the commandments, by Jesus' word, we must keep.





1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. NKJV

Click to expand...

How do we abide in Him according to scripture....

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Did Jesus keep the commandments including the Sabbath- He sure did Luke 4:16 John 15:10 and we abide in Him by following His example and commandments.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

You might consider taking note its conditional- we abide in Him If we keep His commandments and walk just as He walked. What commandments did Jesus teach and keep? We need to follow Him- He led by example and is the WAY.

fli said:

Verse 6 whoever commits sin, lawlessness. has neither seen Him nor known Him. Lawlessness is breaking one law by James because if you break one law you break them all and that is lawlessness. If we have to keep the 10 commandments and you break one then you break them all.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's true- the Ten Commandments are not multiple choice nor are they suggestions. God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 not based on their own strength but through Christ John 14:15-18 If one stumbles and falls we have Jesus who is our High Priest in the NC and can go directly to Him when we sin and repent and when Jesus heals He says go and sin no more. A Christian should not be living in perpetual sin Heb 10:26, which is breaking God's law Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 if we find ourselves struggling to obey God, spend more time in prayer and ask for His help in overcoming our weaknesses. He can help, but arguing against keeping God's law is not a good way to go about it Rom 8:7-8

fli said:

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. NKJV





Read in John 10 more on His sheep. His sheep know him.

Click to expand...

How does God know us?

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

More on this in action in Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15

fli said:

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. NKJV





Those the Father gave to Jesus, His sheep, have seen Him. Therefore, if anyone who was in Jesus, commits lawlessness they have lost salvation. The only way one can lose salvation is by not keeping the commandment in 1John 3: 22. If people can lose salvation by breaking the law, other than the commandment in 1John 3:22, then this is a works-based salvation.

Click to expand...

I wrote this before but it sounds like you may have missed it so here it is again

If we are in Christ, sin should be painful because look what it did to Christ on the Cross. He didn't die so we can continue in sin, He died because the blood of animals could never take away sin, but the blood of Christ can. We too must die with Christ and be reborn - we have to have a conversion, sin separates us from God Isa 59:2, we need to repent of our sins 1 John 1:9 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 and forsake them Pro 28:13, true repentance means a change of mind and a change of direction. We can't do it in our own strength but we can through Christ Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18

fli said:

You keep citing Matthew 7:22. The word translated wonders in the above means wonderful works. It doesn't make any difference if the works were made in His name. People who call on the name of Jesus (as the Messiah, Christ or Savior) will be saved. People who cite works done in His name are trusting in their works in order to get into heaven and will not make.
is eternal life in heaven.

Click to expand...

You keep trying to make the argument that all we have to do is believe in Jesus, but we can live how we want. That we can depend on our own righteousness instead of God's Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 our own truth instead of God's Psa 119:151, our own sanctification instead of God's Eze 20:12 essentially making one their own god, instead of depending on God our Creator Eze 20:20 Exo 20:11 which is the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7

This is one of the last scriptures before the Seconding Coming of Jesus Christ- sounds like there are a lot more commandments than just one...hence why its always plural commandments

There are just two groups- those saved and those lost. The decisions we make today determine which path we end up on, the narrow one that leads back to reconciliation or the wide path that sadly scripture says most choose. Mat 7:13-14

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16). breaking any of the commandments one is a liar and there is no truth 1 John 2:4

As stated before- God's law can't save us only the blood of Jesus can through faith. Obeying God is a consequence of belief and faith. Those who say "I know Him" i.e. believe but do not keep His commandments- there is no truth in them 1 John 2:4

Its how we know ones teaching is coming from God or not.

Isa 8:20 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Ace777 said:

Mark was just a kid

Click to expand...

Where did you get that idea?

Ace777 said:

Paul got mad at him for being a mamma's boy.

Click to expand...

Where did you get that idea?

Ace777 said:

I suppose everyone grows up somewhere along the way though.

Click to expand...

What's that got to do with his decision not to include a genealogy?
Age has nothing to do with it.

Strong in Him said:

Where did you get that idea?

Click to expand...

Mark went on a mission with Paul and he went home early because he missed his mommy. Paul was made at him but Luke was able to patch things up. Also Mark brought Paul so books so he was grateful for that.

Strong in Him said:

What's that got to do with his decision not to include a genealogy?

Click to expand...

I can only guess at that. Paul said to avoid the endless debates about genealogys. The records were destoryed along with the Temple. Maybe he just never went to the temple to study the genealogys.