The Eucharist in the Early Church

Deblee · Jul 25, 2024

Wondering if anyone can point me to specific documents amongst the writings of the early Church fathers that express the belief that the bread and the wine are literally the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Thank you.

prodromos · Jul 25, 2024

The Real Presence — Church Fathers

www.churchfathers.org

Deblee · Jul 25, 2024

prodromos said:
The Real Presence — Church Fathers

www.churchfathers.org

Prodomos-

Thank you so much! I feel like I've hit the motherlode! That is a wonderful resource. I've put it on my homescreen.

I was really hoping to find out what the early Christians, especially the fathers of the Church, believed concerning the Eucharist. From preponderance of quotes on that website, it certainly looks as if they held the view of the Catholic Church today.

Thank you for smoothing the path for me on this particular part of my spiritual journey. Bless you, brother, in Christ. Much appreciated!

Daniel9v9 · Jul 25, 2024

In addition to the above, it may be worth looking at the Didache. It's a fascinating text and a unique window into the early church!
I contend that it's very early, that it was written towards the end of what we can think of as the NT era, so it's very valuable for understanding what the early church believed about God's Word. It's more practical than it is doctrinal, but it contains an Agape-Eucharistic liturgy which, to my knowledge, is the first ever recorded.

I'm quite interested in the Didache, so I'd be glad to expand on any of this, but I can quickly mention that the Eucharist is referred to as "holy" in Didache 9:5, and in Didache 10:3 there's a distinction being made between regular food and drink and what's called "spiritual food and drink" which is connected to "eternal life". And this eternal life is "through Your Servant", which is Jesus (we can know this from the verse above which reads: "Jesus Your Servant").

There are some peculiarities with the liturgy, but it's clearly central to the church of the Didache.

Deblee · Jul 25, 2024

Thank you! I'll definitely look it up.

Deblee · Jul 25, 2024

Deblee said:
Thank you! I'll definitely look it up.

Daniel -
I ordered a copy of the Didache from Amazon. A great addition my growing collection of early Christian writings. Thank you.

Deblee · Jul 26, 2024

prodromos said:
The Real Presence — Church Fathers

www.churchfathers.org

I'm technologically challenged. Computers often baffle me. I received an email about a reply you made to my reply to this post, but I can't find it here. It was about the Orthodox Church.

Let me just say that I feel I have tackled the many- headed Hydra in researching the Catholic Church. Not intentionally leaving anyone out, just bit off more than I can chew already!

I have learned a bit about the first Christian Empire, Byzantium, fascinating stuff! I'm not sure where I'm going, but I need to start at the beginning and try not to get distracted. I'm aware that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are very similar. I'll have to leave it at that for the time being.

I wonder what happened to your comment?

prodromos · Jul 26, 2024

Deblee said:
I'm technologically challenged. Computers often baffle me. I received an email about a reply you made to my reply to this post, but I can't find it here. It was about the Orthodox Church.

Let me just say that I feel I have tackled the many- headed Hydra in researching the Catholic Church. Not intentionally leaving anyone out, just bit off more than I can chew already!

I have learned a bit about the first Christian Empire, Byzantium, fascinating stuff! I'm not sure where I'm going, but I need to start at the beginning and try not to get distracted. I'm aware that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are very similar. I'll have to leave it at that for the time being.

I wonder what happened to your comment?

If you click on your avatar to the right of where it says "Christian Forums" at the top of the screen, you will have a popup showing replies to threads you are watching. If you click on the envelope (private messages) next to the bell (notifications) you will then see a list of your most recent private messages. Click on the link to see the message.

I've just checked the forum rules and it states the following:

You must have 20 posts and 5 likes in order to create and/or respond to existing Conversations (PMs).

Daniel9v9 · Jul 26, 2024

Deblee said:
Daniel -
I ordered a copy of the Didache from Amazon. A great addition my growing collection of early Christian writings. Thank you.

Hey, that's great!

It's a little cryptic without the presentation, but here are some notes from a talk I did on the Didache in case that's helpful at all:

The Didache: An overview

The Didache AN OVERVIEW

docs.google.com

Deblee · Jul 26, 2024

prodromos said:
If you click on your avatar to the right of where it says "Christian Forums" at the top of the screen, you will have a popup showing replies to threads you are watching. If you click on the envelope (private messages) next to the bell (notifications) you will then see a list of your most recent private messages. Click on the link to see the message.
View attachment 352237

I've just checked the forum rules and it states the following:

You must have 20 posts and 5 likes in order to create and/or respond to existing Conversations (PMs).

That does not compute, lol! How can you compile 20 posts if you are not allowed to create a thread or respond to one someone else has created? What am I missing here?

Lost4words · Jul 26, 2024

Deblee said:
Daniel -
I ordered a copy of the Didache from Amazon. A great addition my growing collection of early Christian writings. Thank you.

I got that myself....a worthy read indeed.

Lost4words · Jul 26, 2024

Deblee said:
That does not compute, lol! How can you compile 20 posts if you are not allowed to create a thread or respond to one someone else has created? What am I missing here?

I had a big time adjusting when i joined this form. My paws just kept hitting the wrong keys!!!!!

Deblee · Jul 26, 2024

Lost4words said:
I had a big time adjusting when i joined this form. My paws just kept hitting the wrong keys!!!!!

Not exactly an answer, but that's okay. I am quite fond of God's little creatures!

Deblee · Jul 26, 2024

Daniel9v9 said:
Hey, that's great!

It's a little cryptic without the presentation, but here are some notes from a talk I did on the Didache in case that's helpful at all:

The Didache: An overview

The Didache AN OVERVIEW

docs.google.com

Daniel -
I read your overview. Very helpful. Looking forward to reading the Didache. Thank you.

prodromos · Jul 26, 2024

Deblee said:
That does not compute, lol! How can you compile 20 posts if you are not allowed to create a thread or respond to one someone else has created? What am I missing here?

That restriction is just for Private Messages, not for public threads.
There were people joining CF purely to spam threads and private messages with advertising and other things that were very disruptive and annoying. I think the restrictions were put in place to try and stop people abusing the forums in that way.

Deblee · Jul 26, 2024

prodromos said:
That restriction is just for Private Messages, not for public threads.
There were people joining CF purely to spam threads and private messages with advertising and other things that were very disruptive and annoying. I think the restrictions were put in place to try and stop people abusing the forums in that way.

Ok, that makes sense!

FaithT · Jul 26, 2024

Daniel9v9 said:
In addition to the above, it may be worth looking at the Didache. It's a fascinating text and a unique window into the early church!
I contend that it's very early, that it was written towards the end of what we can think of as the NT era, so it's very valuable for understanding what the early church believed about God's Word. It's more practical than it is doctrinal, but it contains an Agape-Eucharistic liturgy which, to my knowledge, is the first ever recorded.

I'm quite interested in the Didache, so I'd be glad to expand on any of this, but I can quickly mention that the Eucharist is referred to as "holy" in Didache 9:5, and in Didache 10:3 there's a distinction being made between regular food and drink and what's called "spiritual food and drink" which is connected to "eternal life". And this eternal life is "through Your Servant", which is Jesus (we can know this from the verse above which reads: "Jesus Your Servant").

There are some peculiarities with the liturgy, but it's clearly central to the church of the Didache.

I’ve been using the Didache Bible.

Daniel9v9 · Jul 27, 2024

FaithT said:
I’ve been using the Didache Bible.

Ah, yeah. The Didache Bible is something different from the Didache, which can be confusing because it's the same name. However, the word "didache" simply means "teaching", so it may be used in different contexts. The Didache Bible is a Roman Catholic catechetical Bible, but the Didache is one of the first Christian writings we have outside of the Bible.

Deblee · Jul 27, 2024

FaithT said:
I’ve been using the Didache Bible.

How does it differ from other Bibles?

Deblee · Jul 27, 2024

Daniel9v9 said:
Ah, yeah. The Didache Bible is something different from the Didache, which can be confusing because it's the same name. However, the word "didache" simply means "teaching", so it may be used in different contexts. The Didache Bible is a Roman Catholic catechetical Bible, but the Didache is one of the first Christian writings we have outside of the Bible.

Thanks for clarifying, Daniel.

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