Let's Talk About the Boarder and Immigration

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 17, 2024

We have unstable, unsafe countries that people are willing to risk their lives to leave and come to the U.S. with hopes and dreams. Most of them are not criminal but are desperate mothers and fathers with children. The Bibles tells us to welcome the stranger.

But wait a minute. They are coming by tens of thousands. This is far more than the policies and procedures are able to handle. It is overwhelming, not only at the boarder but also at the destinations across the country. It is also unsafe for those who make the journey.

What should we do?

Some popular answers

Build a wall

Close the boarder with more law enforcement.

Deport undocumented immigrants.

The National Immigration Justice center says:

What should the Biden administration be doing to address the humanitarian need at the border? There are other ways to address the situation at the border, leading with empathy and courage in compliance with the Refugee Act of 1980.

The administration can and should:
1) develop and support robust communication and planning between federal, state and local governments, and civil society, so that those arriving migrants in need of additional support can be matched with a destination with capacity to provide services;

2) fully fund and support civil society, including social and legal service providers;

3) create non-custodial, humanitarian reception centers at the border, instead of jailing migrants and asylum seekers; and

4) overhaul the federal immigration budget by moving funds away from detention and enforcement and toward asylum processing and humanitarian needs.

5) abide by its obligation to ensure asylum access to those arriving at the United States’ borders and ports.

Senate Republican Working Group Solutions for the Southern Border Crisis

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/senate_republican_working_group_one_pager.pdf

3. What would improve the U.S. immigration system?

Majorities support increasing the number of judges to process asylum applications and opportunities for legal immigration, but views on other measures are more mixed.

www.pewresearch.org

Vambram · Jul 17, 2024

How much money would it cost to fund these worthwhile ideas and programs?

HTacianas · Jul 17, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
We have unstable, unsafe countries that people are willing to risk their lives to leave and come to the U.S. with hopes and dreams. Most of them are not criminal but are desperate mothers and fathers with children. The Bibles tells us to welcome the stranger.

But wait a minute. They are coming by tens of thousands. This is far more than the policies and procedures are able to handle. It is overwhelming, not only at the boarder but also at the destinations across the country. It is also unsafe for those who make the journey.

What should we do?

Some popular answers

Build a wall

Close the boarder with more law enforcement.

Deport undocumented immigrants.

The National Immigration Justice center says:

What should the Biden administration be doing to address the humanitarian need at the border? There are other ways to address the situation at the border, leading with empathy and courage in compliance with the Refugee Act of 1980.

The administration can and should:
1) develop and support robust communication and planning between federal, state and local governments, and civil society, so that those arriving migrants in need of additional support can be matched with a destination with capacity to provide services;

2) fully fund and support civil society, including social and legal service providers;

3) create non-custodial, humanitarian reception centers at the border, instead of jailing migrants and asylum seekers; and

4) overhaul the federal immigration budget by moving funds away from detention and enforcement and toward asylum processing and humanitarian needs.

5) abide by its obligation to ensure asylum access to those arriving at the United States’ borders and ports.

Senate Republican Working Group Solutions for the Southern Border Crisis

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/senate_republican_working_group_one_pager.pdf

3. What would improve the U.S. immigration system?

Majorities support increasing the number of judges to process asylum applications and opportunities for legal immigration, but views on other measures are more mixed.

www.pewresearch.org

The "refugees" who are outside the United States should comply with international law which has it that a refugee may apply for asylum in the "first safe country'. But we have millions of "refugees" passing through numerous safe countries to get to the United States, indicating that they are not in fact refugees but are economic migrants. Economic migrants are required to comply with US immigration laws in order to enter the United States. The United States government should stop allowing all of us to be played for fools.

BobRyan · Jul 17, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
We have unstable, unsafe countries that people are willing to risk their lives to leave and come to the U.S. with hopes and dreams.

True - we call them immigrants and welcome those who enter lawfully. A number of immigrant families / members - gave their testimony in the RNC convention yesterday - day 2 of the convention.

Akita Suggagaki said:
But wait a minute. They are coming by tens of thousands. This is far more than the policies and procedures are able to handle

An Iranian hit man crossed over the Southern border shortly before the Assassination attempt on Saturday. But he did not cross over legally.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 17, 2024

BobRyan said:
An Iranian hit man crossed over the Southern border shortly before the Assassination attempt on Saturday. But he did not cross over legally.

But the real "hitman" was home grown. Nothing to do with the Southern border.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 17, 2024

HTacianas said:
The "refugees" who are outside the United States should comply with international law which has it that a refugee may apply for asylum in the "first safe country'. But we have millions of "refugees" passing through numerous safe countries to get to the United States, indicating that they are not in fact refugees but are economic migrants. Economic migrants are required to comply with US immigration laws in order to enter the United States. The United States government should stop allowing all of us to be played for fools.

And do what exactly?

HTacianas · Jul 17, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
And do what exactly?

Enforce our immigration laws. Build a wall at the border if they have to, deport anyone that entered the country illegally, and demand that all of the other countries the immigrants are passing through grant them asylum.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 17, 2024

HTacianas said:
Enforce our immigration laws. Build a wall at the border if they have to, deport anyone that entered the country illegally, and demand that all of the other countries the immigrants are passing through grant them asylum.

How would you pay for increased enforcement and a wall.

HTacianas · Jul 17, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
How would you pay for increased enforcement and a wall.

A big chunk of it could come from what we are paying to feed clothe and house illegal immigrants. Asking how do we pay for enforcement all the while paying for all these other things is a little silly.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 17, 2024

I am convinced the left desires unfettered immigration and this is perfectly consistent with their liberal philosophy of devaluing borders and markers of separation between "us and them".

There is nothing stopping the enforcement of immigration laws in any country except a lack of will. Governments are willing to do a lot of things for security and money isn't the issue.

Akita Suggagaki · Jul 18, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I am convinced the left desires unfettered immigration and this is perfectly consistent with their liberal philosophy of devaluing borders and markers of separation between "us and them".

There is nothing stopping the enforcement of immigration laws in any country except a lack of will. Governments are willing to do a lot of things for security and money isn't the issue.

Bit if we want to claim to be a Christian nation, what is the best response to the desperate people knocking at the door?

Vambram · Jul 18, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Bit if we want to claim to be a Christian nation, what is the best response to the desperate people knocking at the door?

I believe that the best responses are the ones that follow the law of the land of the nation that they desire to enter.

eleos1954 · Jul 18, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
We have unstable, unsafe countries that people are willing to risk their lives to leave and come to the U.S. with hopes and dreams. Most of them are not criminal but are desperate mothers and fathers with children. The Bibles tells us to welcome the stranger.

But wait a minute. They are coming by tens of thousands. This is far more than the policies and procedures are able to handle. It is overwhelming, not only at the boarder but also at the destinations across the country. It is also unsafe for those who make the journey.

What should we do?

Some popular answers

Build a wall

Close the boarder with more law enforcement.

Deport undocumented immigrants.

The National Immigration Justice center says:

What should the Biden administration be doing to address the humanitarian need at the border? There are other ways to address the situation at the border, leading with empathy and courage in compliance with the Refugee Act of 1980.

The administration can and should:
1) develop and support robust communication and planning between federal, state and local governments, and civil society, so that those arriving migrants in need of additional support can be matched with a destination with capacity to provide services;

2) fully fund and support civil society, including social and legal service providers;

3) create non-custodial, humanitarian reception centers at the border, instead of jailing migrants and asylum seekers; and

4) overhaul the federal immigration budget by moving funds away from detention and enforcement and toward asylum processing and humanitarian needs.

5) abide by its obligation to ensure asylum access to those arriving at the United States’ borders and ports.

Senate Republican Working Group Solutions for the Southern Border Crisis

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/senate_republican_working_group_one_pager.pdf

3. What would improve the U.S. immigration system?

Majorities support increasing the number of judges to process asylum applications and opportunities for legal immigration, but views on other measures are more mixed.

www.pewresearch.org

Easier to obtain work permits .... it's too slow of a process .... but it does need to be methodical and limited according to available jobs .... we are being overwhelmed by this migration and it is wrong to put this burden on our country and our taxpayers. Americans are struggling .... I am a firm supporter of Americans first and having people coming into this country who will respect our laws ... I believe we can do both but it does need to be methodical and a slow organized process dependent on the health of Americas economy.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 18, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Bit if we want to claim to be a Christian nation, what is the best response to the desperate people knocking at the door?

Well for one thing you're not a Christian Nation. You're a secular liberal nation which supports the public expression of Satanism.

Christian nations don't have to let every so called refugee in and the claim that all these illegal migrants are refugees fleeing persecution is absurd. Christians also have a duty to put their own interests above the interests of those who would otherwise hurt the Christian community. Practicality matters and Christian nations did not historically let hordes of foreign peoples into their countries willingly.

expos4ever · Jul 18, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I am convinced the left desires unfettered immigration...

If by unfettered, you mean immigration without restriction, I find this claim very hard to believe. If this is what you mean, do you have any evidence?

expos4ever · Jul 18, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Christians also have a duty to put their own interests above the interests of those who would otherwise hurt the Christian community.

I have some empathy for your position, but I suspect it would be very difficult to defend this claim biblically. As hard a teaching as it may be, and I am not claiming to live up to it personally, I would say that the scripture teaches that we are to put the interests of even our enemies ahead of ourselves.

But I want to raise another point. I am skeptical that there is a class of individuals who are trying to immigrate who will "hurt the Christian community". What do you mean by this? Hurt in what sense?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Practicality matters and Christian nations did not historically let hordes of foreign peoples into their countries willingly.

"Hordes" is an unfortunate world, I suggest. This kind of language subtly demonizes other human beings. A much more extreme example is when people use terms like "invasion" to describe immigrants. Or, worse, use analogies such as "swarming like rats".

Let me be clear: I am not suggesting that you have used the word "horde" with any dishonorable intention.; I merely point out that such language is not constructive. Likewise, I think it was very unfortunate that Mr Biden used the term "crosshairs" in reference to Mr Trump.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 18, 2024

expos4ever said:
I have some empathy for your position, but I suspect it would be very difficult to defend this claim biblically. As hard a teaching as it may be, and I am not claiming to live up to it personally, I would say that the scripture teaches that we are to put the interests of even our enemies ahead of ourselves.

No. Where does Scripture say to put the interests of our enemies ahead of our brothers and sisters? That is to see to the flourishing of those who would otherwise hurt us? This is a bastardization of the command to love one's enemies which is not an invitation to hand power to them to do with what they wish. If this were the case, Christians would have been guilty of fighting off invasion for a great portion of history.

Where do you get the notion we are to advocate for the interests of non Christians politically and that we must have their interests first as opposed to our friends and family in the faith?

expos4ever said:
But I want to raise another point. I am skeptical that there is a class of individuals who are trying to immigrate who will "hurt the Christian community". What do you mean by this? Hurt in what sense?

Does allowing Islamic migration into Europe hurt or help the Christian community there? Does it lead to a better society or one which is more chaotic and less homogenous?

expos4ever said:
Let me be clear: I am not suggesting that you have used the word "horde" with any dishonorable intention.; I merely point out that such language is not constructive. Likewise, I think it was very unfortunate that Mr Biden used the term "crosshairs" in reference to Mr Trump.

Well Biden has been clear that Trump is a threat to democracy and threats to democracy need to be dealt with as the West dealt with Hitler, right? Unless Trump isn't a threat to democracy in which case Biden has been very irresponsible with his language.

seeking.IAM · Jul 18, 2024

HTacianas said:
...demand that all of the other countries the immigrants are passing through grant them asylum.

Something different should be done, but it does not seem right to demand other countries do what we are not willing to do ourselves.

bèlla · Jul 18, 2024

'We' are a hypothetical entity.

We weren't queried before it happened. Nor were we asked how they should be supported. Were we queried about becoming sanctuary cities? Or provided with additional services to meet the demand without harming those in need? We weren't warned about displacement, financial constraints, or the burdens we were taking on before they occurred.

We weren't given the right to make informed decisions nor a voice in the matter prior to its inception or afterward. A decision was made without our agreement that we've been forced to accept with no recourse.

That is not indicative of democracy in action.
That is not an example of honest representation.
That is not a reflection of sound leadership or fiscal responsibility.

We the People of the United States of America want the rights our constitution declared.
We expect our elected officials to abide by the laws in place and cease to thwart them.
We've had our fill of lies, broken promises, financial duplicity and every form of trickery.

We've had enough of it all and the norm must end.

~bella

seeking.IAM · Jul 18, 2024

I think a contributor to the problem is the cost and rigmarole associated with doing things legally. I wonder what we might do about that?

See Cost for Getting a Green Card

See Cost for Becoming a Citizen by Naturalization

I am connected to a person who married a foreign national who had been in the U.S. for about 12 years on a H-1B skilled workers Visa. It has been very costly to them to pay government fees and immigration attorney fees to change status from the H-1B to a permanent resident green card upon marriage to a U.S. citizen. Four years since their marriage, it is still in process.

I am connected to a second person who had permanent residency status after their parents immigrated to the U.S. when they were a child. This person grew up, served in a branch of U.S. armed services, married, and had several children. -- all as permanent resident (i.e. green card). They did not become a citizen until about 25 years after having served in the U.S. military simply because they couldn't afford it while working in a moderate wage position and raising three children. It seems like honorable service in a branch of the U.S. military ought to be worth more than that.

Possibly if it was easier, cheaper, and faster to do things illegally we might have a few less folks sneaking across the border.

Let's Talk About the Boarder and Immigration

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