The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it.

Valletta · Jul 4, 2024

Today’s citizens of the United States of America are assaulting the faith of their founders and rejecting it outright, aggressively casting it aside, not unlike the Jacobins. One popular left-wing American magazine proudly calls itself, Jacobin. Many Americans no longer want the faith of their fathers.
Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it. A nation cannot ascend to its noble heights on only one wing. A genuinely righteous nation needs both, in July 1776 and still today.

The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now – The American Spectator | USA News and Politics

The Declaration of Independence was, of course, just that. It was an official declaration of independence by the “United Colonies” (upper case), as they were thus described by Thomas Jefferson, his editors John Adams and Ben Franklin, and the Congress in their July 4, 1776, statement for the...

spectator.org

Offline4Better. · Jul 4, 2024

Valletta said:
Today’s citizens of the United States of America are assaulting the faith of their founders and rejecting it outright, aggressively casting it aside, not unlike the Jacobins. One popular left-wing American magazine proudly calls itself, Jacobin. Many Americans no longer want the faith of their fathers.
Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it. A nation cannot ascend to its noble heights on only one wing. A genuinely righteous nation needs both, in July 1776 and still today.

The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now – The American Spectator | USA News and Politics

The Declaration of Independence was, of course, just that. It was an official declaration of independence by the “United Colonies” (upper case), as they were thus described by Thomas Jefferson, his editors John Adams and Ben Franklin, and the Congress in their July 4, 1776, statement for the...

spectator.org

I like having faith also. For myself, I only put my faith in Jesus (born in 0 AD, or roughly ~4 BC if one wants to get technical), and not a country or any nation on Earth, as both the far-left and far-right to an extent have changed it from what the original Founding Fathers wanted our country to be.

But hey, God gave us the freedom to worship him, or indulge in the world, and if one wants to celebrate a nation such as the US, he/she can, but for a young man just getting into the Bible more and who takes Matthew 5:34 and Exodus 20:4-5 literally, Christmas and Easter are the only holidays I celebrate, along with Thanksgiving (thankful for the Lord and my family) and New Year's Day. Halloween and the 4th are not on my list.

Philippians 3:20-21 (NKJV): "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself."

Fantine · Jul 5, 2024

Because I believe in freedom and in freedom to worship in diverse faith traditions representing our multi-cultural society, I do not place my faith in a convicted felon who espouses authoritarianism.

Pommer · Jul 5, 2024

Valletta said:
Today’s citizens of the United States of America are assaulting the faith of their founders and rejecting it outright, aggressively casting it aside, not unlike the Jacobins. One popular left-wing American magazine proudly calls itself, Jacobin. Many Americans no longer want the faith of their fathers.
Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it. A nation cannot ascend to its noble heights on only one wing. A genuinely righteous nation needs both, in July 1776 and still today.

The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now – The American Spectator | USA News and Politics

The Declaration of Independence was, of course, just that. It was an official declaration of independence by the “United Colonies” (upper case), as they were thus described by Thomas Jefferson, his editors John Adams and Ben Franklin, and the Congress in their July 4, 1776, statement for the...

spectator.org

The “Age-of-Enlightenment“ was notorious for its disdain for Kings, who claimed rule was their Right as the “God-chosen” leaders.
The Founders saw through people who tried to tie governments and clerics together in a fraternal population control scheme.
We should too.

Valletta · Jul 5, 2024

AlexB23 said:
I like having faith also. For myself, I only put my faith in Jesus (born in 0 AD, or roughly ~4 BC if one wants to get technical), and not a country or any nation on Earth, as both the far-left and far-right to an extent have changed it from what the original Founding Fathers wanted our country to be.

But hey, God gave us the freedom to worship him, or indulge in the world, and if one wants to celebrate a nation such as the US, he/she can, but for a young man just getting into the Bible more and who takes Matthew 5:34 and Exodus 20:4-5 literally, Christmas and Easter are the only holidays I celebrate, along with Thanksgiving (thankful for the Lord and my family) and New Year's Day. Halloween and the 4th are not on my list.

Philippians 3:20-21 (NKJV): "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

That Guy 11200 · Jul 5, 2024

Valletta said:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

They owned people as property.

essentialsaltes · Jul 5, 2024

Certainly the nation could use a lot more Enlightenment Deists.

It remains a splendid philosophical and moral statement on human nature and governance, acknowledging (among other things) that governments derive “their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
:oldthumbsup:

This is in contrast to the prevailing view at the time.

Divine right of kings

In European Christianity, the divine right of kings, divine right, or God's mandation, is a political and religious doctrine of political legitimacy of a monarchy. It is also known as the divine-right theory of kingship. The doctrine asserts that a monarch is not accountable to any earthly authority (such as a parliament or the Pope [much less the consent of the governed]) because their right to rule is derived from divine authority and farcical aquatic ceremonies.

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

Valletta said:
Today’s citizens of the United States of America are assaulting the faith of their founders and rejecting it outright, aggressively casting it aside, not unlike the Jacobins. One popular left-wing American magazine proudly calls itself, Jacobin. Many Americans no longer want the faith of their fathers.
Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it. A nation cannot ascend to its noble heights on only one wing. A genuinely righteous nation needs both, in July 1776 and still today.

The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now – The American Spectator | USA News and Politics

The Declaration of Independence was, of course, just that. It was an official declaration of independence by the “United Colonies” (upper case), as they were thus described by Thomas Jefferson, his editors John Adams and Ben Franklin, and the Congress in their July 4, 1776, statement for the...

spectator.org

The country was not founded on religious faith, and many of the founders were deists.

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

That Guy 11200 said:
They owned people as property.

Indeed they did. Most of all those 'founders' who signed the Declaration of Independence owned slaves.

Laodicean60 · Jul 5, 2024

That Guy 11200 said:
They owned people as property.

Didn't the whole world since the beginning of time?

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Didn't the whole world since the beginning of time?

Justifying slavery is not a very good rebuttal.

America was supposed to be different. America was supposed to be better....

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Laodicean60 · Jul 5, 2024

JustOneWay said:
Justifying slavery is not a very good rebuttal.

I did not justify it I made a historical fact. Sometimes I wonder if you guys think slavery started in America.

JustOneWay said:
America was supposed to be different. America was supposed to be better....

Today we can say that but history was different.

JustOneWay said:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Agree but it took our ancestors a while to realize it.

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
I did not justify it I made a historical fact. Sometimes I wonder if you guys think slavery started in America.

Just minimizing the slavery perpetrated by most of the founding politicians in America. Justify - show or prove to be right or reasonable.

Laodicean60 said:
Today we can say that but history was different.

Are you justifying slavery again?

Laodicean60 said:
Agree but it took our ancestors a while to realize it.

The slaves were freed after a bloody civil war, then the freed slaves, by and large, had restricted rights and were indiscriminately lynched and shot at. This was going on in my lifetime.

Laodicean60 · Jul 5, 2024

JustOneWay said:
Just minimizing the slavery perpetrated by most of the founding politicians in America. Justify - show or prove to be right or reasonable.

Stateing a historical fact does not justify slavery and our ancestors knew no better. Stop whining about our bad history it won't change.

JustOneWay said:
The slaves were freed after a bloody civil war, then the freed slaves, by and large, had restricted rights and were indiscriminately lynched and shot at. This was going on in my lifetime.

It happened during my time also. What you should be worried about is modern-day slavery and not something that happened several hundred years ago.

Estimates of Modern Slavery

The estimated number of enslaved people today ranges from around 38 million to 49.6 million, depending on the method used to form the estimate and the definition of slavery being used.

Forms of Modern Slavery

Human trafficking: the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of persons, especially women and children, by means of threat, force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, or abuse of power for the purpose of exploitation.

Forced labor: the exploitation of a person’s labor or services, often through violence, threats, or coercion, without their consent or payment.
Debt bondage: a form of forced labor where a person is required to work to pay off a debt or other obligation, often passed down through generations.

Sex trafficking: the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of persons, especially women and children, by means of threat, force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, or abuse of power for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation.

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Stateing a historical fact does not justify slavery and our ancestors knew no better. Stop whining about our bad history it won't change.

It happened during my time also. What you should be worried about is modern-day slavery and not something that happened several hundred years ago.

Estimates of Modern Slavery

The estimated number of enslaved people today ranges from around 38 million to 49.6 million, depending on the method used to form the estimate and the definition of slavery being used.

Forms of Modern Slavery

Human trafficking: the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of persons, especially women and children, by means of threat, force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, or abuse of power for the purpose of exploitation.

Forced labor: the exploitation of a person’s labor or services, often through violence, threats, or coercion, without their consent or payment.
Debt bondage: a form of forced labor where a person is required to work to pay off a debt or other obligation, often passed down through generations.

Sex trafficking: the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of persons, especially women and children, by means of threat, force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, or abuse of power for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation.

I think you are missing the point. The OP is is wrong on many levels, from the faith of the founding fathers to the freedom they neglected to give to all humans living in America. Slavery was BIG deal, big enough that eventually it led to a Civil War, and by you coming along and saying "Didn't the whole world since the beginning of time?" did nothing but minimize slavery in America. It sounded like "this has been happening forever so why should we care if it happens today?' We are not talking about the whole world since the beginning of time, we are talking about American history starting in the 1770's.

Modern slavery in America is illegal, and rightfully so.

Freedom does not require faith in order to thrive.

That Guy 11200 · Jul 5, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Didn't the whole world since the beginning of time?

"The whole world" didn't write documents proclaiming that it's "self-evident, that all men are created equal," while owning slaves, and then being referenced hundreds of years later as men who had faith in freedom.

They were liars - either lying to themselves or to everyone else. In any case, they shouldn't be held up as great believers in freedom, because their actions betray the fact that they were not.

Laodicean60 · Jul 5, 2024

That Guy 11200 said:
"The whole world" didn't write documents proclaiming that it's "self-evident, that all men are created equal," while owning slaves, and then being referenced hundreds of years later as men who had faith in freedom.

They were liars - either lying to themselves or to everyone else. In any case, they shouldn't be held up as great believers in freedom, because their actions betray the fact that they were not.

They were all liars up until 1960. I won't whine about the terrible things my ancestors including my Father did because you can't change it. All I can do is look to the future for my kids and grandkids.

Shall I whine about what your ancestors did with opium? When will the whining stop?

The freedom the article mentions is this:

The Declaration of Independence was, of course, just that. It was an official declaration of independence by the “United Colonies” (upper case), as they were thus described by Thomas Jefferson, his editors John Adams and Ben Franklin, and the Congress in their July 4, 1776, statement for the ages. The document also referred to the colonies as the “united States of America.” Note the lower case “united.” This was not yet the U.S.A. — the United States of America.

JustOneWay · Jul 5, 2024

That Guy 11200 said:
"The whole world" didn't write documents proclaiming that it's "self-evident, that all men are created equal," while owning slaves, and then being referenced hundreds of years later as men who had faith in freedom.

They were liars - either lying to themselves or to everyone else. In any case, they shouldn't be held up as great believers in freedom, because their actions betray the fact that they were not.

Yes, they were flawed and hypocritical men, but the true abolitionists had to play nice with slave states or else there would have been no USA. They should have stricken the "that all men were created equal" and changed it to "that some men were creator equal" in the founding documents.

DaisyDay · Jul 5, 2024

Valletta said:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

They notably excluded women from notions of equality.

Valletta · Jul 5, 2024

DaisyDay said:
They notably excluded women from notions of equality.

It is possible future generations will look back at the liberal women of today with such judgment.

The American Righteous Cause — Then and Now Freedom, like reason, needs faith to sustain it.

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