Presidential Debate review - that brings up the game-changer question

BobRyan · Jun 30, 2024

This news outlet gives us a lot of the "Joe is sharp.. best ever..on top of his game" promos coming from left wing media prior to this debate.

Then the video above follows with all the urgent "houston we have a problem" clips coming from some of those same left-media sources - after the debate.

And some very interesting Joe montage showing that very little has "suddenly changed".

So here is my question after watching that for 5 or 10 min.

Who was/is gaslighting who?

Do they think Joe suddenly aged 25 years in a 90 min debate?
Do they think it happened in 5 days?
Do they think it is "coincidence" that Joe appeared exactly as the Right had been announcing for the past few years?
Do they think they were gaslighted until suddenly they came-to on Friday?
Are we to think that they were actually gas lighting us for the past few years?

How are they going to re-position this new agenda that they have now that some details are so far out in the open even they can't claim not to see them?

wing2000 · Jun 30, 2024

....suggest you and others give up your obsession with the supposed cable news agenda -- whether it's MSNBC or Fox News etc.

CSPAN is your firend.

BobRyan · Jun 30, 2024

Joe is currently retreated to his secluded location to "take pictures with close family" (ie consult with family members) in the wake of all that left-media panic following his Friday outing/strole/walk-about with his political opponent.

"One" of those outlets suggested that the go-forward is an "open convention" where Joe "releases his delegates" to vote for whatever candidate the convention thinks can possibly win.

AlexB23 · Jun 30, 2024

wing2000 said:
....suggest you and others give up your obsession with the supposed cable news agenda -- whether it's MSNBC or Fox News etc.

CSPAN is your firend.

God bless C-SPAN.

Debate transcript (sadly, from CNN, but C-SPAN did not have a transcript): https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html

By the way, here is an AI fact check of the debate, based upon the transcript. The AI (Mistral 8x22B, which sadly can not run on my laptop, but is available free on DeepInfra) was released in April 2024, so the training data only goes until early 2024.

Major Points by Joe Biden	Fact Check, Score: 3/4 true
Economy was in free fall when he took office	Partially True - The economy was struggling due to the pandemic, but it was not in free fall.
Created 15,000 new jobs	Not Confirmed - The number of jobs created by the Biden administration has not been confirmed, as the year 2024 has not ended yet.
Brought back manufacturing jobs	Partially True - The Biden administration has made efforts to bring back manufacturing jobs, but the impact has not been fully realized.
More to be done to support working class people	True - The Biden administration has acknowledged that more needs to be done to support working class people.

Major Points by Donald Trump	Fact Check, Score: 1/7 true
Economy was great under his administration	Misleading - The economy was strong under Trump's administration, but it was also marked by a significant increase in the national debt and income inequality.
Inflation is hurting the country	True - Inflation has increased under the Biden administration, causing economic hardship for many Americans.
Biden's policies are not working	Opinion - This statement is subjective and depends on individual perspectives.
Border was secure under his administration	False - The Trump administration implemented controversial policies such as family separation and the construction of a border wall, which did not necessarily improve border security.
Biden has opened the border to dangerous individuals	Misleading - The Biden administration has faced criticism for its handling of the situation at the border, but there is no evidence to suggest that it has allowed dangerous individuals to enter the country.
Biden has been weak on foreign policy	Opinion - This statement is subjective and depends on individual perspectives.
Biden's policies have contributed to the crisis in Ukraine	False - The crisis in Ukraine predates the Biden administration (crisis first started in 2014) and has been influenced by a variety of factors.
Trump has worked to improve air and water quality	Misleading - While the Trump administration did implement some environmental policies, it also rolled back many regulations aimed at protecting air and water quality.

BobRyan · Jun 30, 2024

AlexB23 said:
God bless C-SPAN.

Debate transcript (sadly, from CNN, but C-SPAN did not have a transcript): https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html

By the way, here is an AI fact check of the debate, based upon the transcript. The AI (Mistral 8x22B, which sadly can not run on my laptop, but is available free on DeepInfra) was released in April 2024, so the training data only goes until early 2024.

Major Points by Joe Biden Fact Check, Score: 3/4 true
Economy was in free fall when he took office Partially True - The economy was struggling due to the pandemic, but it was not in free fall.
Created 15,000 new jobs Not Confirmed - The number of jobs created by the Biden administration has not been confirmed, as the year 2024 has not ended yet.
Brought back manufacturing jobs Partially True - The Biden administration has made efforts to bring back manufacturing jobs, but the impact has not been fully realized.

MSN

"In February 2020, just before the COVID-19 pandemic reached the U.S., 152.3 million people were employed. Two months later, that number had dropped by 21.9 million, to 130.4 million. By the time Trump left office, more than half of those jobs had been recovered."

"It took 17 more months, until June 2022, for the U.S. economy to recover the remaining 9 million jobs lost during the pandemic. From that perspective, the actual net gain during the Biden administration was 6.2 million jobs as of February 2024, not 15.6 million."

=============================

And then we have --

"a 2021 U.S. Treasury Department report estimating that around $80 billion in funding would allow the IRS to incrementally hire nearly 87,000 employees by the year 2031. Most of those hires would be replacements for workers retiring from existing positions, including not only IRS enforcement agents, but also customer service and technology specialists."

AlexB23 · Jun 30, 2024

BobRyan said:
MSN

"In February 2020, just before the COVID-19 pandemic reached the U.S., 152.3 million people were employed. Two months later, that number had dropped by 21.9 million, to 130.4 million. By the time Trump left office, more than half of those jobs had been recovered."

"It took 17 more months, until June 2022, for the U.S. economy to recover the remaining 9 million jobs lost during the pandemic. From that perspective, the actual net gain during the Biden administration was 6.2 million jobs as of February 2024, not 15.6 million."

=============================

And then we have --

"a 2021 U.S. Treasury Department report estimating that around $80 billion in funding would allow the IRS to incrementally hire nearly 87,000 employees by the year 2031. Most of those hires would be replacements for workers retiring from existing positions, including not only IRS enforcement agents, but also customer service and technology specialists."

Joe must have been really tired that debate. 15,000 is much smaller than 6.2 million.

From the transcript posted on CNN

BobRyan · Jun 30, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Joe must have been really tired that debate. 15,000 is much smaller than 6.2 million.

Yep -- I am not sure he was fully awake until around 30 or 40 minutes in to the debate

at 01:30 mm:ss into that video O'Reilly points out Biden's 15,000 vs 15 million mistake - not unlike Biden's 1000 trillionaires vs 1000 millionaires in America -- statement.

===================================

But here you see the real issue -- gas lighting exposed.

The question that goes unanswered in that - is "who was gas lighting who?" was it the Left Media being gas lighted by some Biden folks or was it the Left Media caught gas lighting the public?

At 02:30 mm:ss into that video link above - Jill Biden says (before the debate) that "America NEEDS this debate, they need to SEE their choices, you need to see Trump and you need to see THE PRESIDENT.. "

Well then good news -- "we saw".

Jill goes on to say "you're going to see how smart Joe is and you are going to see... that Trump can't put a sentence together"

(hmmm - that statement did not age well)

AlexB23 · Jun 30, 2024

BobRyan said:
Yep -- I am not sure he was fully awake until around 30 or 40 minutes in to the debate

Heck, even the Democrats say that Biden had poor performance.

Yes, this is similar to a post that I made in another thread, but it had to be said.

Source: ‘10 minutes to destroy a presidency’: how US and global media reviewed the Biden-Trump debate

Quoted for truth from the Guardian: "Columnist Nicholas Kristof, a centrist Democrat, said that Biden is a “good man” who had capped his political career with a successful presidential term… 'but I hope he [Biden] reviews his debate performance Thursday evening and withdraws from the race'."

Vambram · Jun 30, 2024

How Democrats could replace Biden as presidential candidate before November?

@BobRyan
I hope that you don't mind that I added the following article from Yahoo.com/news
If you feel like it is off topic too much from this thread's original post, please let me know and I shall delete it.

How Democrats could replace Biden as presidential candidate before November

After President Joe Biden's shaky performance at the debate with former President Donald Trump on Thursday night, some Democrats openly questioned whether he should be replaced as their candidate.

www.yahoo.com

Reuters spoke to Elaine Kamarck, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution think tank, a Democratic National Committee member, and author of the book "Primary Politics" about the presidential nominating process.

This explainer is based largely on interviews with her.

Q: What options do Democrats have?
A: The Democratic Party has had no real Plan B for Biden as its presidential candidate. He ran virtually unopposed for the party's presidential nomination this year.

He will not be nominated officially until later this summer, so there is still time to make a change and a handful of scenarios to enact one: Biden could decide himself to step aside before he is nominated; he could be challenged by others who try to win over the delegates he has accrued; or he could withdraw after the Democratic convention in Chicago in August, leaving the Democratic National Committee to elect someone to run against Trump in his place.

Q: So what happens next?
A: Right now, the process largely depends on Biden. He would have to agree to step down or face a challenger this late in the process who would try to force him to do so. So far Biden has shown no indications of wanting to step aside, and no opponents have challenged him directly.

In fact some of his top potential replacements – Vice President Kamala Harris and California Governor Gavin Newsom – spoke passionately in his defense after the debate, serving in a surrogate role that showcased their support but also contrasted their smooth delivery with his faltering one on the Atlanta debate stage.

eleos1954 · Jul 1, 2024

BobRyan said:
This news outlet gives us a lot of the "Joe is sharp.. best ever..on top of his game" promos coming from left wing media prior to this debate.

Then it follows with all the urgent "houston we have a problem" clips coming from some of those same left-media sources - after the debate.

And some very interesting Joe montage showing that very little has "suddenly changed".

So here is my question after watching that for 5 or 10 min.

Who was/is gaslighting who?

Do they think Joe suddenly aged 25 years in a 90 min debate?
Do they think it happened in 5 days?
Do they think it is "coincidence" that Joe appeared exactly as the Right had been announcing for the past few years?
Do they think they were gaslighted until suddenly they came-to on Friday?
Are we to think that they were actually gas lighting us for the past few years?

How are they going to re-position this new agenda that they have now that some details are so far out in the open even they can't claim not to see them?

It's not that Joe "suddenly changed" ... it's that he was in the public eye for a prolonged period (90 minutes) and his declined state was self-evident. Most of the left leaning news organizations will say anything to support their chosen candidate .... even if untrue. Repeat a lie long enough and many will believe it (even themselves - self deception). Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

BobRyan · Jul 1, 2024

eleos1954 said:
It's not that Joe "suddenly changed" ... it's that he was in the public eye for a prolonged period (90 minutes) and his declined state was self-evident. Most of the left leaning news organizations will say anything to support their chosen candidate .... even if untrue. Repeat a lie long enough and many will believe it (even themselves - self deception). Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

sad but true.

But a lot media coverage was given to the idea that the bad-media-on-the-right was showing clips of Biden's failing condition and none of that is true about Biden - rather he is sharp as a tac.

So the evidence was sufficient to get a lot of people pretty much expecting the train wreck that was presented. No mind reading was needed to see the cognitive decline.

BobRyan · Jul 1, 2024

Vambram said:
How Democrats could replace Biden as presidential candidate before November?

@BobRyan
I hope that you don't mind that I added the following article from Yahoo.com/news
If you feel like it is off topic too much from this thread's original post, please let me know and I shall delete it.

How Democrats could replace Biden as presidential candidate before November

After President Joe Biden's shaky performance at the debate with former President Donald Trump on Thursday night, some Democrats openly questioned whether he should be replaced as their candidate.

www.yahoo.com

Reuters spoke to Elaine Kamarck, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution think tank, a Democratic National Committee member, and author of the book "Primary Politics" about the presidential nominating process.

This explainer is based largely on interviews with her.

Q: What options do Democrats have?
A: The Democratic Party has had no real Plan B for Biden as its presidential candidate. He ran virtually unopposed for the party's presidential nomination this year.

He will not be nominated officially until later this summer, so there is still time to make a change and a handful of scenarios to enact one: Biden could decide himself to step aside before he is nominated; he could be challenged by others who try to win over the delegates he has accrued; or he could withdraw after the Democratic convention in Chicago in August, leaving the Democratic National Committee to elect someone to run against Trump in his place.

Q: So what happens next?
A: Right now, the process largely depends on Biden. He would have to agree to step down or face a challenger this late in the process who would try to force him to do so. So far Biden has shown no indications of wanting to step aside, and no opponents have challenged him directly.

In fact some of his top potential replacements – Vice President Kamala Harris and California Governor Gavin Newsom – spoke passionately in his defense after the debate, serving in a surrogate role that showcased their support but also contrasted their smooth delivery with his faltering one on the Atlanta debate stage.

Thanks.

I think they have the fail-safe of having an open convention where Biden releases all his delegates and they pick someone who can run.

eleos1954 · Jul 2, 2024

BobRyan said:
sad but true.

But a lot media coverage was given to the idea that the bad-media-on-the-right was showing clips of Biden's failing condition and none of that is true about Biden - rather he is sharp as a tac.

So the evidence was sufficient to get a lot of people pretty much expecting the train wreck that was presented. No mind reading was needed to see the cognitive decline.

Biden is not a well man and it is self evident ... people need to face that fact and quit denying the truth.

BobRyan · Jul 2, 2024

eleos1954 said:
Biden is not a well man and it is self evident ... people need to face that fact and quit denying the truth.

More and more news outlets reporting that more than 70% of voters not satisfied that Biden is capable of doing the job.

eclipsenow · Jul 3, 2024

Biden should retire, swear in Kamala, and let Kamala have months as President Kamala to take on Trump.
Biden's funds could then be diverted to Kamala and not have to be refunded and dispersed to all donors (only to then have many of them pay it all back.)

Laodicean60 · Jul 3, 2024

eleos1954 said:
Biden is not a well man and it is self evident ... people need to face that fact and quit denying the truth.

This amazes me about the media and zombie followers it should be evident for any older person because we saw Joe's difference in 2020 versus in 2008. The media will keep tugging their chains until it's blatantly obvious and it's laughable that the media now says it's time to go over one debate performance as if his condition is new. How could the Democrats not see this coming?

eclipsenow · Jul 3, 2024

In the Westminster system he wouldn't have even run in 2016. The Party would have chosen a new leader - and that would be that. The advantage is it tends - however marginally in today's shallow world - to lead to discussions around policy - not just personality. Maybe I'm kidding myself. But the other advantage is it avoids the public civil war of the opposition every election - where the opposition party has a massive blood letting in their candidate selection process. And hopefully the party would never be so dense as to elect someone as terrifyingly narcissistic and downright dense and dishonest as you know who.

Pommer · Jul 3, 2024

eclipsenow said:
In the Westminster system he wouldn't have even run in 2016. The Party would have chosen a new leader - and that would be that. The advantage is it tends - however marginally in today's shallow world - to lead to discussions around policy - not just personality. Maybe I'm kidding myself. But the other advantage is it avoids the public civil war of the opposition every election - where the opposition party has a massive blood letting in their candidate selection process. And hopefully the party would never be so dense as to elect someone as terrifyingly narcissistic and downright dense and dishonest as you know who.

The line between “conservatism” and “right-wing populism” used to be broader, yes.

Nithavela · Jul 4, 2024

The real gaslighting here is that conservatives pretend that democrats never admitted that Biden was old and probably not as mentally fit as he should be. The general line of democratic party followers on this forum I saw was somewhere between "I can't believe they can't find someone better" and "Biden is not ideal, but he has the best chance of beating Trump". With that said, Biden has demonstrated weakness in the face of a challenge, and the US american people can abide a lot of negative traits in their leaders, but not weakness.

The democratic party had 4 years to prop up a new candidate, making them more popular and able to run an election campaign. The party never developed this plan B, instead losing itself in trench war and letting their fight against Trump and their various virtue signalling pet projects dominate the national discourse. This incompetence will cost the party, the USA and the world as a whole dearly.

eleos1954 · Jul 4, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
This amazes me about the media and zombie followers it should be evident for any older person because we saw Joe's difference in 2020 versus in 2008. The media will keep tugging their chains until it's blatantly obvious and it's laughable that the media now says it's time to go over one debate performance as if his condition is new. How could the Democrats not see this coming?

Seems to me the democratic party almost always puts the focus on the emotions ... when decisions and acts are made based on emotions there is much room for error (foolishness) .... we shouldn't trust our emotions ... they throw fuel on the fire of emotion and people act on their emotions such as we see. The narratives put out by the democratic party through the media are emotional narratives and thereby are emotional responses (displaying anger).

Proverbs 29:11 ESV

A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Amplified Bible
A [shortsighted] fool always loses his temper and displays his anger, But a wise man [uses self-control and] holds it back.

Presidential Debate review - that brings up the game-changer question

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