Goliath was 9 feet 9 inches tall ?

christian-surfer · Jun 24, 2024

According to the Masoretic text that modern bibles are based on, we are told that many believe that Goliath was 9 feet, nine inches tall based on the cubit measurements given. Og King of Bashan's bed is noted as being 13.5 feet long.

This seems to fit with the controversial book of Enoch and the mention of the Nephilim in Genesis 6, Raphaim etc and the narrative of fallen angels who cross bred with human women.
Professor of Theology Micheal Heiser points out that several early church fathers believed that Enoch was true and inspired scripture but they apparently didn't want to take a stand on it. Either that or it was gradually forgotten and the later Church fathers (Augustine and Jerome) took a different view and were more focused on other heresies. Enoch is considered canonical by the Ethiopian church

AlexB23 · Jun 24, 2024

christian-surfer said:
According to the Masoretic text that modern bibles are based on, we are told that many believe that Goliath was 9 feet, nine inches tall based on the cubit measurements given. Og King of Bashan's bed is noted as being 13.5 feet long.

This seems to fit with the controversial book of Enoch and the mention of the Nephilim in Genesis 6, Raphaim etc and the narrative of fallen angels who cross bred with human women.
Professor of Theology Micheal Heiser points out that several early church fathers believed that Enoch was true and inspired scripture but they apparently didn't want to take a stand on it. Either that or it was gradually forgotten and the later Church fathers (Augustine and Jerome) took a different view and were more focused on other heresies. Enoch is considered canonical by the Ethiopian church

I do not like participating in Controversial Theology, but Goliath would be great at basketball with his tall height. Not a fan of sports, but now I have an image of David and Goliath fighting over a basketball.

Also, David and Goliath would make a great Biblical anime.

Found this cool anime style poster art of David and Goliath, but sadly it is not sold anywhere.

BeyondET · Jun 25, 2024

christian-surfer said:
Og King of Bashan's bed is noted as being 13.5 feet long.

A big bed doesn't automatically mean Og King was tall. Its possible he just liked a big bed.

ViaCrucis · Jun 25, 2024

christian-surfer said:
According to the Masoretic text that modern bibles are based on, we are told that many believe that Goliath was 9 feet, nine inches tall based on the cubit measurements given. Og King of Bashan's bed is noted as being 13.5 feet long.

This seems to fit with the controversial book of Enoch and the mention of the Nephilim in Genesis 6, Raphaim etc and the narrative of fallen angels who cross bred with human women.
Professor of Theology Micheal Heiser points out that several early church fathers believed that Enoch was true and inspired scripture but they apparently didn't want to take a stand on it. Either that or it was gradually forgotten and the later Church fathers (Augustine and Jerome) took a different view and were more focused on other heresies. Enoch is considered canonical by the Ethiopian church

The oldest texts we have--the LXX and DSS--place Goliath's height at just under 7 feet tall. Only the much later Masoretic Text gives us a more inflated height of almost 10 feet.

What we call "The Book of Enoch" is a compilation of different texts written at different times. Some early Christians liked it, Tertullian held a great affection toward it, but Tertullian is a compromised witness due to his conversion to the heretical Montanist sect. So what he says should always be taken with a grain of salt, and measured against the larger witness of the fathers and ancient Church.

It is also true that the Ethiopian (and Eritrean) Church accepts Enoch as part of its Canon. However, it has never been accepted by the rest of the Historic Churches. The Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches embrace a number of books not accepted by anyone else, and even books entirely unique to themselves not known anywhere else.

-CryptoLutheran

christian-surfer · Jun 25, 2024

ViaCrucis said:
The oldest texts we have--the LXX and DSS--place Goliath's height at just under 7 feet tall. Only the much later Masoretic Text gives us a more inflated height of almost 10 feet.

What we call "The Book of Enoch" is a compilation of different texts written at different times. Some early Christians liked it, Tertullian held a great affection toward it, but Tertullian is a compromised witness due to his conversion to the heretical Montanist sect. So what he says should always be taken with a grain of salt, and measured against the larger witness of the fathers and ancient Church.

It is also true that the Ethiopian (and Eritrean) Church accepts Enoch as part of its Canon. However, it has never been accepted by the rest of the Historic Churches. The Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches embrace a number of books not accepted by anyone else, and even books entirely unique to themselves not known anywhere else.

-CryptoLutheran

These are some notes I have from the early fathers. Michael Heiser has written much about the book of enoch. Someone had said there are bible fragments older than the Septuagint that agree with the masoretic text but I can't remember which source I had heard that from

Enoch was seen as canonical scripture by many early church fathers in the first two centuries AD.

Some of the early church fathers considered enoch to be canonical:

This includes tertulian, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Cyprian, Clement of Alexandria.

Tertullian, wrote that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by those who do not realize the true religion and because it contained prophecies

Irenaeus, a famous apologist, accepts Enoch as Scripture and said that Enoch was God's representative to rebuke the fallen angels and that a group of fallen angels devised methods of sorcery to corrupt the human race

Clement of Alexandria accepted Enoch as Scripture and writes that both the prophet Daniel and Enoch taught the same thing and that the fallen angels were the source of the black arts.

Origen referred to Enoch as "Scripture"

by the 5th century things had changed, enoch was somewhat forgotten and Augustine and Jermorome were focused on other things

christian-surfer · Jun 25, 2024

Some other notes:

Many of the themes in book of enoch that are in the New Testament:
This include the lake of fire, book of life, final judgement, the term "son of man"

Until an Aramaic text of the Book of Enoch was discovered at Qumram, it was assumed that Enoch quoted the New Testament.
We now know that Enoch was composed earlier than the New Testament.

========

Josephus an important historian from the first century mentioned the giants and nephilim:

He wrote:

"There were till then left the race of giants; who had bodies so large, and countenances so entirely different from other men, that they were surprising to the sight, and terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shewn to this very day"

"For many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Greeks call giants."

======

Jewish mysticism is very predominant in the Jewish religion.
The Zohar is one such book from the Jewish tradition that appears to have numerous references to the book of enoch.
there are other allusions to enoch in the jewish mystical tradition.

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Goliath was 9 feet 9 inches tall ?

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