The tangled mess of Christianity and Politics

Grip Docility · Jun 24, 2024

One would have to live in a cave, within America, to deny that Christianity has been politicized.

There are now two firm camps.

Progressives

Conservatives

The politicization of many moral matters has now forced Christianity into a deep schism where scripture is far from central to either side's discussion.

Forget the obvious nature of the current polarizing effect of dropping either of 2024's presidential candidates names. The exalted two parties that dominate American politics have branded themselves so strongly that in final summation Democrat and Republican have as staunch a meaning as Catholic or Protestant.

There are over 39,000 Christian denominations that all claim to have the correct reading of scripture, which is just a way of life, now. However, the schism that having only two Political parties is causing within the lives, souls and mental well being of Americas seems to be far more indicative of how Americans now view one another. The most painful aspect to all of this is that Political Special Interest on both sides of the isle has taken on the effort to appeal to the "Moral" compass of target groups. What one party is guilty of, so there the other party is now guilty of. All of the political vying for power and majority rule has seeped into the fabric of individual Americans.

If Party x gains control of the Supreme Court.
If Party y gains control of the House.
If Party x gains control over the Senate.
If Party y gains control over the Presidency.
If Party x gains a Governors seat.
If Party y gains control over an entire state.

These matters seem to be genuine focuses of Americans, these days. I understand being involved in Civic matters and such forth, but we are no different that OT Israel on this point. Do we have faith in mankind or God? Some people believe that this is the established Kingdom of God on earth, but I'm not referring to those folks. I'm referring to those folks that believe that we are Heaven bound and this experience is temporal. Factions are defined as utterly bad by the Apostle Paul. The more that I involved myself in politics, the more that I felt a growing disdain for one party or the other, as politics are now defined. I wouldn't say that this is anything new, but it just seems like these matters have become far more viewed as the answer to everything in many peoples minds. In the OT, we can visibly see the impact of Governments rising to the level of proclaiming to be a god. Am I the only one in America with this dumb idea, or do Blue and Red alike seem to be rising to the status of passively declared gods of our present and future? Is this only in America or is it a growing thing that is global? Why is mankind placing more and more faith in mankind? Why is division growing so massive in relation to political matters that churches can't simply operate under gospel narrative but feel obligated to infuse themselves into political matters?

This is more of a ponderance dump.

Ted-01 · Jun 24, 2024

Grip Docility said:
This is more of a ponderance dump.

LOL - yeah, I ponder a little too much myself brother!

In some of my pondering, I wonder if Christians should start becoming a bit more insular. Try to leave about 39,000 denominations to their attachments of this world, while the remaining try to focus on serving God, encouraging each other, and venture back out into the world on specific tactical forays.

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
One would have to live in a cave, within America, to deny that Christianity has been politicized.

There are now two firm camps.

Progressives
Conservatives

The politicization of many moral matters has now forced Christianity into a deep schism where scripture is far from central to either side's discussion.

Forget the obvious nature of the current polarizing effect of dropping either of 2024's presidential candidates names. The exalted two parties that dominate American politics have branded themselves so strongly that in final summation Democrat and Republican have as staunch a meaning as Catholic or Protestant.

There are over 40,000 Christian denominations that all claim to have the correct reading of scripture, which is just a way of life, now. However, the schism that having only two Political parties is causing within the lives, souls and mental well being of Americas seems to be far more indicative of how Americans now view one another. The most painful aspect to all of this is that Political Special Interest on both sides of the isle has taken on the effort to appeal to the "Moral" compass of target groups. What one party is guilty of, so there the other party is now guilty of. All of the political vying for power and majority rule has seeped into the fabric of individual Americans.

If Party x gains control of the Supreme Court.
If Party y gains control of the House.
If Party x gains control over the Senate.
If Party y gains control over the Presidency.
If Party x gains a Governors seat.
If Party y gains control over an entire state.

These matters seem to be genuine focuses of Americans, these days. I understand being involved in Civic matters and such forth, but we are no different that OT Israel on this point. Do we have faith in mankind or God? Some people believe that this is the established Kingdom of God on earth, but I'm not referring to those folks. I'm referring to those folks that believe that we are Heaven bound and this experience is temporal. Factions are defined as utterly bad by the Apostle Paul. The more that I involved myself in politics, the more that I felt a growing disdain for one party or the other, as politics are now defined. I wouldn't say that this is anything new, but it just seems like these matters have become far more viewed as the answer to everything in many peoples minds. In the OT, we can visibly see the impact of Governments rising to the level of proclaiming to be a god. Am I the only one in America with this dumb idea, or do Blue and Red alike seem to be rising to the status of passively declared gods of our present and future? Is this only in America or is it a growing thing that is global? Why is mankind placing more and more faith in mankind? Why is division growing so massive in relation to political matters that churches can't simply operate under gospel narrative but feel obligated to infuse themselves into political matters?

This is more of a ponderance dump.

In the Book of Mormon, a man named Alma was both the Chief Judge and the High Priest at the time when pride began to enter the people of the church causing contention - so he decided to give up the Judgment Seat and began to go among the people of the church - bringing them to repentance.

I think the best thing is to be like Alma - stop judging and just focus on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
In the Book of Mormon, a man named Alma was both the Chief Judge and the High Priest at the time when pride began to enter the people of the church causing contention - so he decided to give up the Judgment Seat and began to go among the people of the church - bringing them to repentance.

Could you please link me to a bible verse within biblical canon of the 66 or 73 book type that confirms the relevance of this man, Alma?

Zaha Torte said:
I think the best thing is to be like Alma - stop judging and just focus on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you feel judged as you read this post?

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Ted-01 said:
LOL - yeah, I ponder a little too much myself brother!

In some of my pondering, I wonder if Christians should start becoming a bit more insular. Try to leave about 39,000 denominations to their attachments of this world, while the remaining try to focus on serving God, encouraging each other, and venture back out into the world on specific tactical forays.

This is profound thought. It reminds me of a biblical passage.

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Could you please link me to a bible verse within biblical canon of the 66 or 73 book type that confirms the relevance of this man, Alma?

Can you explain the need for me to do so?

Grip Docility said:
Did you feel judged as you read this post?

Not at all. I was agreeing with you. We judge each other too much and don't love enough.

If we all focused on the Lord Jesus Christ and what He would have us do - we would all be a lot better off.

I find your response to me to be counterintuitive to the message of your OP.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
Can you explain the need for me to do so?

It is my personal conviction and requirement for accepting a spiritual teaching.

Zaha Torte said:
Not at all. I was agreeing with you. We judge each other too much and don't love enough.

Well, that took an unexpected turn. I couldn't agree with you more. I am also relieved that you didn't feel judged. There was no other way to ask directly than the way that I asked according to your initial response. Now I fully understand your perspective and not only respect and appreciate it, but thank you for blessing this OP with your words.

Zaha Torte said:
If we all focused on the Lord Jesus Christ and what He would have us do - we would all be a lot better off.

So, here I am, Loving my Mormon Sibling in Jesus Christ, because they fully grasp the importance of the Centrality of Jesus Christ! Well said! 39,000 differences... ONLY ONE JESUS. <3

Zaha Torte said:
I find your response to me to be counterintuitive to the message of your OP.

I've grown efficient at "Testing the Spirits" with direct words, in accordance with scriptural instruction and the leading of the same Spirit within me that dwells within you. How can I know unless I see where your Heart looks by asking? This said... I apologize for being gruff. Sibling in Jesus, I ask your forgiveness. Will you forgive me?

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
It is my personal conviction and requirement for accepting a spiritual teaching.

Why is that?

Grip Docility said:
Well, that took an unexpected turn. I couldn't agree with you more. I am also relieved that you didn't feel judged. There was no other way to ask directly than the way that I asked according to your initial response. Now I fully understand your perspective and not only respect and appreciate it, but thank you for blessing this OP with your words.

I am grateful. Thank you.

Grip Docility said:
So, here I am, Loving my Mormon Sibling in Jesus Christ, because they fully grasp the importance of the Centrality of Jesus Christ! Well said! 39,000 differences... ONLY ONE JESUS. <3

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Eternal God - the Way, the Truth and the Life.

We prefer to be called Latter-day Saints or LDS for short.

Grip Docility said:
I've grown efficient at "Testing the Spirits" with direct words, in accordance with scriptural instruction and the leading of the same Spirit within me that dwells within you. How can I know unless I see where your Heart looks by asking? This said... I apologize for being gruff. Sibling in Jesus, I ask your forgiveness. Will you forgive me?

Of course you are forgiven.

Have you had the opportunity to read the Book of Mormon?

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
Why is that?

1 John 2:27

Zaha Torte said:
I am grateful. Thank you.

Amen, thank you

Zaha Torte said:
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Eternal God - the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Amen!

Zaha Torte said:
We prefer to be called Latter-day Saints or LDS for short.

LDS it is. Thank you for assisting me in knowing the respectful way to address you.

Zaha Torte said:
Of course you are forgiven.

Amen!

Zaha Torte said:
Have you had the opportunity to read the Book of Mormon?

I really hope you have a solid sense of humor. Why do I feel like someone in black pants and a white button down shirt just knocked on my door?

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
1 John 2:27

Do you believe that this "anointing" is the Bible?

Grip Docility said:
Amen, thank you

Amen!

LDS it is. Thank you for assisting me in knowing the respectful way to address you.

Amen!

God bless you.

Grip Docility said:
I really hope you have a solid sense of humor. Why do I feel like someone in black pants and a white button down shirt just knocked on my door?

There was no intent to proselytize - I just find the Book of Mormon to be very instructive - especially in regard to our "modern" problems.

The man I mentioned - Alma - was basically the POTUS and Pope at the same time - yet when he began to notice the social unrest - he decided that the best course of action was to give up his political/government authority - and preach love, repentance and reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that Alma sets a good example for us today - and one of the themes of the Book or Mormon is that it was written specifically for these latter days - that Mormon (the man who abridged the history of his people into a single volume) was inspired to select only those histories and teachings that would be directly beneficial to us and our issues today.

Another verse from the Book of Mormon that comes to mind was when a group of people became apostate and began corroborating with an enemy nation - Alma counseled that they should go and preach among them - as opposed to the military getting involved,

"And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God." (Alma 31:5)

Akita Suggagaki · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Am I the only one in America with this dumb idea, or do Blue and Red alike seem to be rising to the status of passively declared gods of our present and future?

Perhaps because the practical issues are closer to home, we seem to adopt a political worldview to cope with them and then graft on a view of Christianity that supports it. The Right does this more than the Left. The Left embraces a more humanistic approach.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
Do you believe that this "anointing" is the Bible?

Romans 8 reveals that the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ dwells within us. His Holy Spirit. Soul to Soul

Zaha Torte said:
God bless you.

There was no intent to proselytize - I just find the Book of Mormon to be very instructive - especially in regard to our "modern" problems.

I understand. I mean this super politely, but I reject all extrabiblical sources, including commentaries. I even tell people to merely count my writings opinions.

Zaha Torte said:
The man I mentioned - Alma - was basically the POTUS and Pope at the same time - yet when he began to notice the social unrest - he decided that the best course of action was to give up his political/government authority - and preach love, repentance and reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that Alma sets a good example for us today - and one of the themes of the Book or Mormon is that it was written specifically for these latter days - that Mormon (the man who abridged the history of his people into a single volume) was inspired to select only those histories and teachings that would be directly beneficial to us and our issues today.

Another verse from the Book of Mormon that comes to mind was when a group of people became apostate and began corroborating with an enemy nation - Alma counseled that they should go and preach among them - as opposed to the military getting involved,

"And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God." (Alma 31:5)

I appreciate you sharing this, but I do know your doctrines. I do not know them as well as you, by any means, but I do, indeed know the big picture. I spent quite a bit of time studying as many of the fractures as possible within the Body. I also asked questions to a friend that I worked with long ago who was devout LDS. I am without any denomination. I count myself lowercase universal or "catholic", which is to say that all of the invisible Body of Jesus Christ are my Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ. I deny Love to no one and count all humanity as covered in Jesus Christ's blood. Repentance is the key that they have to find.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Perhaps because the practical issues are closer to home, we seem to adopt a political worldview to cope with them and then graft on a view of Christianity that supports it. The Right does this more than the Left. The Left embraces a more humanistic approach.

I Love what you have said, but I will be honest, I have close friends in both parties of diverse makeup. They, among both party's are equally vested. I don't say this to be rude, but each are equally guilty of over politicization of many matters, in my humble opinion. Both fight over the mantle of being superior "humanists". For thousands of years men have sought power through means of promising the world. I don't really see a moral superiority or human superiority within either party. I just see greed, lies and power hunger. This is just my opinion.

Akita Suggagaki · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
I Love what you have said, but I will be honest, I have close friends in both parties of diverse makeup. They, among both party's are equally vested. I don't say this to be rude, but each are equally guilty of over politicization of many matters, in my humble opinion. Both fight over the mantle of being superior "humanists". For thousands of years men have sought power through means of promising the world. I don't really see a moral superiority or human superiority within either party. I just see greed, lies and power hunger. This is just my opinion.

Well, I share it. And people not only over politicize, they over religiousize their politics.

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Romans 8 reveals that the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ dwells within us. His Holy Spirit. Soul to Soul

I agree that we are all connected to the Lord Jesus Christ - we refer to this as the "Light of Christ" and distinguish it from the Holy Spirit - who is one with the Father and the Son.

However - this is not relevant to your initial claim - which was that I had need to provide a verse from the biblical canon that confirms the relevance of Alma.

This demand is what led me to ask why that would be required and you said that it was a requirement for you to accept a spiritual teaching.

Yet when I asked why that was - you referenced 1 John 2:27 and Romans 8 - which speak on the "anointing" and the Holy Spirit.

So - forgive me if I am misrepresenting you - but it seems as though you accept spiritual teaching based on what the Holy Spirit teaches - as opposed to reliance on the biblical canon.

I am just a little confused by your inital comment.

Grip Docility said:
I understand. I mean this super politely, but I reject all extrabiblical sources, including commentaries. I even tell people to merely count my writings opinions.

Why is that?

Grip Docility said:
I appreciate you sharing this, but I do know your doctrines. I do not know them as well as you, by any means, but I do, indeed know the big picture. I spent quite a bit of time studying as many of the fractures as possible within the Body. I also asked questions to a friend that I worked with long ago who was devout LDS.

You'd be surprised.

I remember back when I was a missionary - a member wanted us to help teach his friend - and that member started talking about a lot of stuff that we do not believe in.

Some opinions of Church leaders are mistakenly taken as doctrine - or claims made by those who hate the Church are often taken as fact - so it's possible even members are not as informed as they should be.

Grip Docility said:
I am without any denomination. I count myself lowercase universal or "catholic", which is to say that all of the invisible Body of Jesus Christ are my Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ. I deny Love to no one and count all humanity as covered in Jesus Christ's blood. Repentance is the key that they have to find.

That's good. God bless.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
I agree that we are all connected to the Lord Jesus Christ - we refer to this as the "Light of Christ" and distinguish it from the Holy Spirit - who is one with the Father and the Son.

Aha! I didn't know you thought of it that way in such precise words as the words that you so kindly shared. Thank you.

Zaha Torte said:
However - this is not relevant to your initial claim - which was that I had need to provide a verse from the biblical canon that confirms the relevance of Alma.

I don't have a "Closed Theology", if that makes sense. While I study, if I find myself in error, I will scrap the areas in error and restart. I will die before I understand even a fraction of scripture.

Zaha Torte said:
This demand is what led me to ask why that would be required and you said that it was a requirement for you to accept a spiritual teaching.

It keeps me at a place where John 5:39 is the foundation of everything that I believe. I don't entertain the idea that revelation past Genesis to Revelation is necessary. It is a matter that God has convicted me of, through the reading of Scripture. Now, in no way do I desire you to think that I believe that you are to be as I. I don't. I love you as my sibling in Jesus, as you are. I hope this helps.

Zaha Torte said:
Yet when I asked why that was - you referenced 1 John 2:27 and Romans 8 - which speak on the "anointing" and the Holy Spirit.

The holy Spirit is "oil", as in humility perfected by the "Olive oil press" of the Cross, by my personal understanding through scriptural study.

Zaha Torte said:
So - forgive me if I am misrepresenting you - but it seems as though you accept spiritual teaching based on what the Holy Spirit teaches - as opposed to reliance on the biblical canon.

You aren't "misrepresenting" me, but trying to have me articulate something that you find curious until you are certain that you understand what I was expressing. This is called kind and inquiring. What I mean is, Jesus is the only source of Truth. He is the Truth. Only Him. I believe that He dwells in my very Soul and teaches me as I read scripture and experience life. Does that make more sense?

Zaha Torte said:
I am just a little confused by your initial comment.

The bible is my only Holy Book. I am convicted of this. John 5:39 is my foundation of doctrine and 1 John 2:27 is my exaltation of God teaching me and being willing to always admit that I am a theological and physical work until the day I push up Daisy's.

Zaha Torte said:
Why is that?

Humility to Jesus as my only teacher.

Zaha Torte said:
You'd be surprised.

Do you believe that we are Spirit Children before birth?
Do you believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers, the first two sons of YHWH, though Jesus is the eldest?
Do you believe that YHWH is one of many God's, but is the great God of our universe... thus you only worship YHWH?
Do you believe that our greatest aspiration is to one day be a God if found worthy?

Zaha Torte said:
I remember back when I was a missionary - a member wanted us to help teach his friend - and that member started talking about a lot of stuff that we do not believe in.

Some opinions of Church leaders are mistakenly taken as doctrine - or claims made by those who hate the Church are often taken as fact - so it's possible even members are not as informed as they should be.

Fair enough.

Zaha Torte said:
That's good. God bless.

God bless.

Grip Docility · Jun 26, 2024

Akita Suggagaki said:
Well, I share it. And people not only over politicize, they over religiousize their politics.

So painfully true! Well written!

Zaha Torte · Jun 26, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Aha! I didn't know you thought of it that way in such precise words as the words that you so kindly shared. Thank you.

No problem at all.

We believe that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite in its effects - without beginning or end - and includes His covenanting with the Father and us to be our Savior and Redeemer, Creating the physical Universe, covenanting with and guiding Man, suffering the penalties of Man's sins, dying to overcome the world and the effects of the Fall, forgiving us of our sins, Resurrecting the dead, Judging the wicked, exalting the faithful - and anything and everything in between.

The Light of Christ is like His seal or signature upon every human being. He claims us as His.

Grip Docility said:
I don't have a "Closed Theology", if that makes sense. While I study, if I find myself in error, I will scrap the areas in error and restart. I will die before I understand even a fraction of scripture.

Of course, we are all finite fools before God, and I approve of your approach.

We must always be searching, pondering and praying for guidance - all the while relying on the Holy Spirit.

Our understanding of the Holy Spirit - in regard to study - is that He will confirm truth to our minds and hearts.

This does not mean that He inserts knowledge or truth into our minds - but rather we are required to study things out - and then when we bring the issue to Him - He will confirm if what we have concluded is true or not.

If it is - continue down that line of inquiry - if not - we will receive a stupor of thought - and we should discard and start over.

Grip Docility said:
It keeps me at a place where John 5:39 is the foundation of everything that I believe. I don't entertain the idea that revelation past Genesis to Revelation is necessary. It is a matter that God has convicted me of, through the reading of Scripture. Now, in no way do I desire you to think that I believe that you are to be as I. I don't. I love you as my sibling in Jesus, as you are. I hope this helps.

Yes, it is very helpful.

But it leads me to ask - when you say that any revelation outside of Genesis to Revelation is not "necessary" - what does that mean? Necessary for what?

Grip Docility said:
The holy Spirit is "oil", as in humility perfected by the "Olive oil press" of the Cross, by my personal understanding through scriptural study.

I do not totally disagree - since the Holy Spirit is always involved in the affairs of the Kingdom - but we view the "anointing" as the setting apart or being called of God.

That those who have been joined with God by way of covenant and enjoy the fellowship of the saints have been called of God to be a fellow laborer with Christ - a joint-heir of the Father's Kingdom.

Grip Docility said:
You aren't "misrepresenting" me, but trying to have me articulate something that you find curious until you are certain that you understand what I was expressing. This is called kind and inquiring. What I mean is, Jesus is the only source of Truth. He is the Truth. Only Him. I believe that He dwells in my very Soul and teaches me as I read scripture and experience life. Does that make more sense?

It makes perfect sense and I wholly agree.

As long as we feast upon His Word - keeping the Light of Christ bright in our lives - He promises to abide with us.

Grip Docility said:
The bible is my only Holy Book. I am convicted of this. John 5:39 is my foundation of doctrine and 1 John 2:27 is my exaltation of God teaching me and being willing to always admit that I am a theological and physical work until the day I push up Daisy's.

We believe that there is much work to be done beyond the veil as well. Joyous labors in God's service for the salvation of souls.

Grip Docility said:
Humility to Jesus as my only teacher.

It can be difficult to endure His chastening well.

Grip Docility said:
Do you believe that we are Spirit Children before birth?
Do you believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers, the first two sons of YHWH, though Jesus is the eldest?
Do you believe that YHWH is one of many God's, but is the great God of our universe... thus you only worship YHWH?
Do you believe that our greatest aspiration is to one day be a God if found worthy?

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is YHWH or Jehovah - the God of Israel - that He created the Earth as well as the physical Universe - under the direction and by the authority of the Father.

We believe all of us existed with the Father outside of Time as His spirit sons and daughters - that we are eternal beings - and that we require this process (which includes mortality) in order for us to become one with the Father as the Lord Jesus Christ is.

As to Satan (rather Lucifer later titled Satan) being the brother of the Lord Jesus Christ (known as YHWH or Jehovah) - we believe that they are both sons of the Father - yet through His nature and will Jehovah has always been one with the Father - while Lucifer and those who followed him became delusional and rejected the greater counsel given by God.

We believe that all of us wished to progress and become more like our Father - yet the plan that the Father shared with us that leads to perfection and glory in His service is laden with risks - and Lucifer wished to avoid any risk and offered an amendment to the Father's plan - which made no sense and I would be willing to get into that more later if you have any interest.

Anyways - Lucifer was rejected - and Jehovah was chosen, and He covenanted with us to be our Savior, Redeemer and Mediator - so Lucifer was jealous and wroth and drew those who agreed with him into rebellion - and they were cast out.

Lucifer has fallen and we are just as different from him as the Lord Jesus Christ is different from us.

I have been trying to formulate proper analogies for our beliefs in regard to these things and have come to imagine it as us acquiring more dimensions through a system of tests - to filter out those who would rather not be the children of God.

We believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the only true and eternal God - we worship only the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - and as to us becoming "a God" - it would be more appropriate to say that we believe we can become more like Him and that we can become one with the Father as outlined in John 17.

I understand that it can be a lot to take in - and it may be very confusing - but I believe that I can explain it more clearly if you want me to - I just don't know if you would want me to try.

If you are interested - hit me with a DM.

Grip Docility said:
Fair enough.

God bless.

Grip Docility · Jun 27, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
No problem at all.

We believe that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite in its effects - without beginning or end - and includes His covenanting with the Father and us to be our Savior and Redeemer, Creating the physical Universe, covenanting with and guiding Man, suffering the penalties of Man's sins, dying to overcome the world and the effects of the Fall, forgiving us of our sins, Resurrecting the dead, Judging the wicked, exalting the faithful - and anything and everything in between.

The Light of Christ is like His seal or signature upon every human being. He claims us as His.

Your wording is very beautiful.

Zaha Torte said:
Of course, we are all finite fools before God, and I approve of your approach.

Amen and Thank you

Zaha Torte said:
We must always be searching, pondering and praying for guidance - all the while relying on the Holy Spirit.

Amen!

Zaha Torte said:
Our understanding of the Holy Spirit - in regard to study - is that He will confirm truth to our minds and hearts.

That's very similar to 1 John 2:27

Zaha Torte said:
This does not mean that He inserts knowledge or truth into our minds - but rather we are required to study things out - and then when we bring the issue to Him - He will confirm if what we have concluded is true or not.

I've had inserted wisdom happen before. It's not a voice, but it's something strengthening and fortifying that was needed.

Zaha Torte said:
If it is - continue down that line of inquiry - if not - we will receive a stupor of thought - and we should discard and start over.

That makes sense.

Zaha Torte said:
Yes, it is very helpful.

But it leads me to ask - when you say that any revelation outside of Genesis to Revelation is not "necessary" - what does that mean? Necessary for what?

Remember, I believe that Jesus dwells inside my very soul as The Holy Spirit. He's the final biblical prophet. I depend on God and no man. My relationship with God is founded on this. I am convicted to stay within biblical Canon.

Zaha Torte said:
I do not totally disagree - since the Holy Spirit is always involved in the affairs of the Kingdom - but we view the "anointing" as the setting apart or being called of God.

Romans 8:9,10,11

Zaha Torte said:
That those who have been joined with God by way of covenant and enjoy the fellowship of the saints have been called of God to be a fellow laborer with Christ - a joint-heir of the Father's Kingdom.

This is very similar to Peters words in his epistles.

Zaha Torte said:
It makes perfect sense and I wholly agree.

As long as we feast upon His Word - keeping the Light of Christ bright in our lives - He promises to abide with us.

That's very beautifully worded. Jesus is the Word according to John 1

Zaha Torte said:
We believe that there is much work to be done beyond the veil as well. Joyous labors in God's service for the salvation of souls.

It can be difficult to endure His chastening well.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is YHWH or Jehovah - the God of Israel - that He created the Earth as well as the physical Universe - under the direction and by the authority of the Father.

We believe all of us existed with the Father outside of Time as His spirit sons and daughters - that we are eternal beings - and that we require this process (which includes mortality) in order for us to become one with the Father as the Lord Jesus Christ is.

As to Satan (rather Lucifer later titled Satan) being the brother of the Lord Jesus Christ (known as YHWH or Jehovah) - we believe that they are both sons of the Father - yet through His nature and will Jehovah has always been one with the Father - while Lucifer and those who followed him became delusional and rejected the greater counsel given by God.

We believe that all of us wished to progress and become more like our Father - yet the plan that the Father shared with us that leads to perfection and glory in His service is laden with risks - and Lucifer wished to avoid any risk and offered an amendment to the Father's plan - which made no sense and I would be willing to get into that more later if you have any interest.

Anyways - Lucifer was rejected - and Jehovah was chosen, and He covenanted with us to be our Savior, Redeemer and Mediator - so Lucifer was jealous and wroth and drew those who agreed with him into rebellion - and they were cast out.

Lucifer has fallen and we are just as different from him as the Lord Jesus Christ is different from us.

I have been trying to formulate proper analogies for our beliefs in regard to these things and have come to imagine it as us acquiring more dimensions through a system of tests - to filter out those who would rather not be the children of God.

We believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the only true and eternal God - we worship only the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - and as to us becoming "a God" - it would be more appropriate to say that we believe we can become more like Him and that we can become one with the Father as outlined in John 17.

I understand that it can be a lot to take in - and it may be very confusing - but I believe that I can explain it more clearly if you want me to - I just don't know if you would want me to try.

If you are interested - hit me with a DM.

I really appreciate you clarifying your convictions. As I respect that you are deeply convicted to be LDS, I'm certain that you also respect my conviction to remain one with the entire invisible Body of Christ and stay exactly at that simple label of "universal" or small "c" catholic.

Zaha Torte said:

brakelite · Jun 27, 2024

Grip Docility said:
Why is mankind placing more and more faith in mankind? Why is division growing so massive in relation to political matters that churches can't simply operate under gospel narrative but feel obligated to infuse themselves into political matters?

Very good questions. Basically, I think the church has turned to politics because their version of the gospel isn't working. It isn't changing lives, it's filling people with false hopes, so the church is reassuring to politics to accomplish what their gospel cannot. Compel the nation to practise righteousness by coercion and legislation rather than the power of the holy Spirit. See PROJECT 2025

The tangled mess of Christianity and Politics

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One would have to live in a cave, within America, to deny that Christianity has been politicized.​

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Jesus Christ is the Eternal God

One would have to live in a cave, within America, to deny that Christianity has been politicized.​

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Jesus Christ is the Eternal God

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Jesus Christ is the Eternal God

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Jesus Christ is the Eternal God

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Jesus Christ is the Eternal God

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One would have to live in a cave, within America, to deny that Christianity has been politicized.

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