What does the term "will of God" mean?

tonychanyt · Jun 14, 2024

There is only one faculty of volition—the will—for us and for God. Nevertheless, the outputs of the volition can be categorized in different ways:

Type 0 outputs of the will of God (or, more conveniently, type 0 directives):

These are "desires" and "wishes". Type 0 may not be fulfilled in the space-time realm. God desires that Israel would have only Him as King. God desires that no man would divorce his wife. In 1 Timothy 2:4a

[God] desires all people to be saved.

Jesus said in Luke 12:

49, "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!"

Luke 13:

34, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

2 Peter 3:

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Type 1:

This consists of his providence, fate, God's sovereign hand over His creation, the so-called "permissive will", etc. In other words, it is everything that has transpired.

Type 2:

These are doctrinal codes, righteous precepts, morals, and the Ten Commandments.

Type 3:

These are God's most specific will in a given instance in the vertical-horizontal reality. In Jonah 3:4, God's type 3 directive was that Nineveh be destroyed in 40 days, as Jonah proclaimed. Only six verses later, God again directed Nineveh to be spared of the destruction proclaimed earlier.

The types are not mutually exclusive; e.g., a directive can be type 1 and type 3. When sin and death disappear, all directives will collapse to type 4 = type 0 = type 1 = type 2 = type 3.

Mark Quayle · Jun 14, 2024

tonychanyt said:
There is only one faculty of volition—the will—for us and for God. Nevertheless, the outputs of the volition can be categorized in different ways:

Type 0 outputs of the will of God (or, more conveniently, type 0 directives):

These are "desires" and "wishes". Type 0 may not be fulfilled in the space-time realm. God desires that Israel would have only Him as King. God desires that no man would divorce his wife. In 1 Timothy 2:4a

Jesus said in Luke 12:

Luke 13:

2 Peter 3:

Type 1:

This consists of his providence, fate, God's sovereign hand over His creation, the so-called "permissive will", etc. In other words, it is everything that has transpired.

Type 2:

These are doctrinal codes, righteous precepts, morals, and the Ten Commandments.

Type 3:

These are God's most specific will in a given instance in the vertical-horizontal reality. In Jonah 3:4, God's type 3 directive was that Nineveh be destroyed in 40 days, as Jonah proclaimed. Only six verses later, God again directed Nineveh to be spared of the destruction proclaimed earlier.

The types are not mutually exclusive; e.g., a directive can be type 1 and type 3. When sin and death disappear, all directives will collapse to type 4 = type 0 = type 1 = type 2 = type 3.

Yet, your whole structure there is built on an assumed, "We humans can think about it this way", which is therefore not entirely definitive.

tonychanyt · Jun 14, 2024

Mark Quayle said:
Yet, your whole structure there is built on an assumed, "We humans can think about it this way", which is therefore not entirely definitive.

Great point

Here is an interesting question: Is a person's thinking limited by the languages he knows, such as English, Chinese, math, logic, etc.?

Mark Quayle · Jun 14, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Great point

Here is an interesting question: Is a person's thinking limited by the languages he knows, such as English, Chinese, math, logic, etc.?

Yes, definitely, not to mention the presumptive thinking he has done all his life, and his necessary (and natural) limited human point-of-view, temporal point-of-view, self-centered point-of-view, concurrent-with-his-times point-of-view, limited knowledge point-of-view and so on. One thing I have noticed in my few years is the assumption that our words actually represent substance, and, we think, even more surely, our concepts represent reality.

KevinT · Jun 14, 2024

tonychanyt said:
There is only one faculty of volition—the will—for us and for God. Nevertheless, the outputs of the volition can be categorized in different ways:
...

The types are not mutually exclusive; e.g., a directive can be type 1 and type 3. When sin and death disappear, all directives will collapse to type 4 = type 0 = type 1 = type 2 = type 3.

This is interesting. Is this a classification system that you devised, or it is also used elsewhere?

KT

tonychanyt · Jun 14, 2024

KevinT said:
This is interesting. Is this a classification system that you devised, or it is also used elsewhere?

It's my invention

KevinT · Jun 14, 2024

OK, so I'll think out loud.

I've heard discussion of comparing God's ideal will vs His individualized will. For example, God may desire that all marriages are peaceful and that happy unions. That is His ideal will. But when a husband becomes and alcoholic and beats his wife, then an individualized will would likely be for the woman to escape.

I've also heard this in the context of homosexuality. God's perfect will is that humans reproduce in a thoughtful way, leading to perpetuation of our species. But there are some in the world where the wiring in the brain seems to be different from others. In those cases, it is interesting to consider what God's individualized will might be.

I met a man once who believed that he was a woman and had transgender surgery. He was married to his wife before the surgery, and they stayed together afterwards. Then (s)he became religious and thought that perhaps God would be upset with him/her because (s)he was living in a lesbian situation and wondered if it was the right thing to do to leave the woman. I think this situation requires lots of grace and realization that God's ideal will has to be tempered into real world situations. (note: last I knew, they stayed together).

So in your nomenclature I think ideal will would be Type 0. But what would individualized will be?

KT

Mark Quayle · Jun 14, 2024

tonychanyt said:
There is only one faculty of volition—the will—for us and for God. Nevertheless, the outputs of the volition can be categorized in different ways:

Type 0 outputs of the will of God (or, more conveniently, type 0 directives):

These are "desires" and "wishes". Type 0 may not be fulfilled in the space-time realm. God desires that Israel would have only Him as King. God desires that no man would divorce his wife. In 1 Timothy 2:4a

Jesus said in Luke 12:

Luke 13:

2 Peter 3:

Type 1:

This consists of his providence, fate, God's sovereign hand over His creation, the so-called "permissive will", etc. In other words, it is everything that has transpired.

Type 2:

These are doctrinal codes, righteous precepts, morals, and the Ten Commandments.

Type 3:

These are God's most specific will in a given instance in the vertical-horizontal reality. In Jonah 3:4, God's type 3 directive was that Nineveh be destroyed in 40 days, as Jonah proclaimed. Only six verses later, God again directed Nineveh to be spared of the destruction proclaimed earlier.

The types are not mutually exclusive; e.g., a directive can be type 1 and type 3. When sin and death disappear, all directives will collapse to type 4 = type 0 = type 1 = type 2 = type 3.

I would amend your Type 1 to say, "...[and] the so-called 'permissive will'". Everything that has transpired = his plan, or in some theological systems, 'his decree' —everything that has, or that will, happen, is caused by him to happen, in one way or another. Nothing can happen apart from this will. And it encompasses all the dynamics of life and the other Types of 'Will of God'. They cannot oppose this one.

One thing for sure, the WILL of God is not like ours. (Ours is like his, only not very much so.) To categorize our concepts of 'God's will' is not authoritative or definitive, but they may help us think about him, and even learn something about him. But they also run the risk, if taken too seriously, of limiting our thoughts and understanding about him into falsehood. But, thank God, he has ways around that.

tonychanyt · Jun 14, 2024

Mark Quayle said:
Everything that has transpired = his plan

I find the word "plan" too ambiguous. It could mean any of the 4 types. When Plan A fails, then try Plan B. Etc.

Mark Quayle · Jun 14, 2024

tonychanyt said:
I find the word "plan" too ambiguous. It could mean any of the 4 types. When Plan A fails, then try Plan B. Etc.

Inherent, and implicit, in the meaning of 'GOD' omnipotent, there is no failure, there is no plan B. But if it helps, go with 'Decree'. Even 'word', or 'creation spoken into existence'; God does not change. What he set out to do will in every detail come to pass. And it takes every detail for it to come to pass.

eleos1954 · Jun 15, 2024

tonychanyt said:
There is only one faculty of volition—the will—for us and for God. Nevertheless, the outputs of the volition can be categorized in different ways:

Type 0 outputs of the will of God (or, more conveniently, type 0 directives):

These are "desires" and "wishes". Type 0 may not be fulfilled in the space-time realm. God desires that Israel would have only Him as King. God desires that no man would divorce his wife. In 1 Timothy 2:4a

Jesus said in Luke 12:

Luke 13:

2 Peter 3:

Type 1:

This consists of his providence, fate, God's sovereign hand over His creation, the so-called "permissive will", etc. In other words, it is everything that has transpired.

Type 2:

These are doctrinal codes, righteous precepts, morals, and the Ten Commandments.

Type 3:

These are God's most specific will in a given instance in the vertical-horizontal reality. In Jonah 3:4, God's type 3 directive was that Nineveh be destroyed in 40 days, as Jonah proclaimed. Only six verses later, God again directed Nineveh to be spared of the destruction proclaimed earlier.

The types are not mutually exclusive; e.g., a directive can be type 1 and type 3. When sin and death disappear, all directives will collapse to type 4 = type 0 = type 1 = type 2 = type 3.

Gods will is that we turn away from sin (transgression of the law) to turn away from sin love is manifested. Love is a choice. When we receive Jesus as Lord and savior ... through the Holy Spirit to help us turn away from sin ... we will stumble here and there ... but we are assured God will finish his work.

Philippians 1:6

AMP
I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. (His work ... not ours)

In Romans 13:10, Paul writes, “Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” So when we talk about the law of God—the way God wants us to live—it's summarized by love. Love for God and loving our neighbor as we love ourselves is what obeying God's law is all about.

Gods law is kept out of love and for no other reasons. Love can not be forced is must be a choice.

Mark Quayle · Jun 15, 2024

eleos1954 said:
Gods law is kept out of love and for no other reasons. Love can not be forced is must be a choice.

You pose a false dichotomy: Love need not be "forced", to be compelled, or in some other way caused.

You will have a difficult time demonstrating that love must be chosen, to be real. Do dogs choose to love their masters?

That we are not dogs is self-evident, but that fact does not relieve us from determinism. Does our sentience lift us much above dogs, compared to God's infinite sentience? Does our being made in the image of God mean that our love for God can only be by choice?

And I'm not here disputing that those who love God can fail to choose to love him. But that is a different question. Does God, the only uncaused being, choose to love himself?

Grafted In · Jun 15, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Great point

Here is an interesting question: Is a person's thinking limited by the languages he knows, such as English, Chinese, math, logic, etc.?

A bit off topic, but does learning a new language enhance cognitive function? Does it deepen our thinking?

tonychanyt · Jun 15, 2024

Grafted In said:
A bit off topic, but does learning a new language enhance cognitive function?

From my personal experience, yes.

Grafted In said:
Does it deepen our thinking?

Yes, in some way.

Mark Quayle · Jun 15, 2024

Grafted In said:
A bit off topic, but does learning a new language enhance cognitive function? Does it deepen our thinking?

tonychanyt said:
From my personal experience, yes.

Yes, in some way.

In the same way that what comes out of a man corrupts him (Matt 15:11) the words a man uses alter his thinking. Good or bad.

Each language seems (from my experience, anyway) to carry its own viewpoint. I've noticed that Missionary Kids in particular often have an ability to see past conversation and to be skeptical of terminology that one-language speakers consider valid, because they have developed a third worldview. Likewise, we (MK's) often don't consider our wording to have aptly conveyed our thoughts.

Grafted In · Jun 17, 2024

Do you still think in your native tongue?
I ask because after half a century of this country trying to convert to metric and I used a metric set of calipers during my working years on cncs, I still think inches. I can do the math, no problem. But trying to imagine a part in the metric scale still baffles me.

tonychanyt · Jun 17, 2024

Grafted In said:
Do you still think in your native tongue?

Good question.

My default is English. Occasionally, I think in Chinese when the subject matter is Chinese or China-related

Mark Quayle · Jun 28, 2024

Grafted In said:
Do you still think in your native tongue?
I ask because after half a century of this country trying to convert to metric and I used a metric set of calipers during my working years on cncs, I still think inches. I can do the math, no problem. But trying to imagine a part in the metric scale still baffles me.

Spanish is definitely a second language for me. Yet certain subject matters —or maybe I should say, certain 'atmosphere's'— require thinking in Spanish for me. I'm very much the kind of person that talks to himself, (even with my mouth closed, using words in my mind), and some things just work better for me in Spanish.

What does the term "will of God" mean?

24/7 Christian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

24/7 Christian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Well-Known Member

24/7 Christian

Well-Known Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

24/7 Christian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

God is Love

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Newbie

24/7 Christian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Newbie

24/7 Christian

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Similar threads