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CNN: Europe’s center ground is shifting further to the right

ThatRobGuy

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Far-right parties
are predicted to win a record number of seats in the European Parliament, a result that, if confirmed, would deliver a stinging rebuke to Brussels’ political mainstream and add uncertainty to Europe’s future direction.

After three days of voting across the European Union’s 27 member states, an exit poll showed that far-right parties were set to win around 150 of the parliament’s 720 seats, which will likely make it harder for mainstream parties to form majorities needed to pass laws.

Most of the far-right gains were concentrated in countries that elect large numbers of seats: France, Italy and Germany.


Europe’s drift to the right has been a long journey that’s seen the continent’s mainstream increasingly accommodate people with Euroskeptic views that were once fringe.

The projected gains for the hard right in the European parliamentary elections may seem modest in terms of pure numbers, but they are significant.

The results represent a major challenge to the pro-Europe mainstream officials who dominate the institutions of the European Union.




While, domestically speaking, it's easy for people to chalk it up to Trump and the GOP radicalizing the far-right part of the base and residuals of past racial attitudes, the fact that it's occurring in Europe (and in countries that have been notably more progressive than the US and don't have the same levels of ideological/racial baggage), should make people question the "conventional wisdom".

If it was merely happening only in the US and other countries were maintaining the status quo, then the theory of "if it weren't for Trump, this shift wouldn't have occurred" may have some merit.

Since it's happening in other places where there is no Trump (and for that matter, where Trump wasn't/isn't well-liked), would mean that even if Donald Trump never existed, there would merely another "outlet" people would be using as their "vessel" for propping up a bulwark against what they see as the excesses of the left.

(for instance, the rallying behind Geert Wilders that was seen late last year in the Netherlands, Milei in Argentina, etc...)

Which, if the latter is the case, then people may be focusing their efforts in the wrong areas if they're looking to stave off the far-right gaining ground. In the countries that seemed to have successfully staved off these kinds of pushes, they didn't do so by strengthening their left/far-left, they did so by having their far-left reign it in a bit and making some concessions in order to bolster the centrists.

...which makes perfect sense logically speaking. If someone is on the fence between center-right and far-right, who's more likely to be able to wrangle them back inside the overton window? Centrists, or the Left?...

IE: If you have some who's teetering on the bring of falling into the far-right trap, who's more likely to stop them from making that jump? Someone like an AOC who they have almost zero overlap with? Or someone more in the center with whom they may share positions on half the issues?
 

RestoreTheJoy

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Far-right parties are predicted to win a record number of seats in the European Parliament, a result that, if confirmed, would deliver a stinging rebuke to Brussels’ political mainstream and add uncertainty to Europe’s future direction.

After three days of voting across the European Union’s 27 member states, an exit poll showed that far-right parties were set to win around 150 of the parliament’s 720 seats, which will likely make it harder for mainstream parties to form majorities needed to pass laws.

Most of the far-right gains were concentrated in countries that elect large numbers of seats: France, Italy and Germany.


Europe’s drift to the right has been a long journey that’s seen the continent’s mainstream increasingly accommodate people with Euroskeptic views that were once fringe.

The projected gains for the hard right in the European parliamentary elections may seem modest in terms of pure numbers, but they are significant.

The results represent a major challenge to the pro-Europe mainstream officials who dominate the institutions of the European Union.




While, domestically speaking, it's easy for people to chalk it up to Trump and the GOP radicalizing the far-right part of the base and residuals of past racial attitudes, the fact that it's occurring in Europe (and in countries that have been notably more progressive than the US and don't have the same levels of ideological/racial baggage), should make people question the "conventional wisdom".

If it was merely happening only in the US and other countries were maintaining the status quo, then the theory of "if it weren't for Trump, this shift wouldn't have occurred" may have some merit.

Since it's happening in other places where there is no Trump (and for that matter, where Trump wasn't/isn't well-liked), would mean that even if Donald Trump never existed, there would merely another "outlet" people would be using as their "vessel" for propping up a bulwark against what they see as the excesses of the left.

(for instance, the rallying behind Geert Wilders that was seen late last year in the Netherlands, Milei in Argentina, etc...)

Which, if the latter is the case, then people may be focusing their efforts in the wrong areas if they're looking to stave off the far-right gaining ground. In the countries that seemed to have successfully staved off these kinds of pushes, they didn't do so by strengthening their left/far-left, they did so by having their far-left reign it in a bit and making some concessions in order to bolster the centrists.

...which makes perfect sense logically speaking. If someone is on the fence between center-right and far-right, who's more likely to be able to wrangle them back inside the overton window? Centrists, or the Left?...

IE: If you have some who's teetering on the bring of falling into the far-right trap, who's more likely to stop them from making that jump? Someone like an AOC who they have almost zero overlap with? Or someone more in the center with whom they may share positions on half the issues?
The pendulum returning to normal balance, after the crazy of the last few years, is not "far right", I just want to say.
 
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trophy33

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If you want to call parties far-right just because they do not want uncontrolled immigration or the Green deal in its current form...

However, many of these parties are politically closer to left than to right.
 
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rambot

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If you want to call parties far-right just because they do not want uncontrolled immigration or the Green deal in its current form...

However, many of these parties are politically closer to left than to right.
Do you have more information than just this statement? I can buy in if it's based on information.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The media doesn't even know anymore what is "right". Anyone right of center is labelled "far-right" nowadays.
I think context is important with regards to the different Overton Windows each country has though when evaluating those labels.

For instance, someone like Geert Wilders would be "far right" within the context of what has been "the Norm" in the Netherlands.

Much like a "center-left" politician in a place like Finland would likely be labelled "far left" within the context of the US's politics.

I was more or less delving into the "why" with regards to the move rightward many countries are seeing on their respective spectrums, and how I think some progressives in the US are misplacing the "blame" on the myopic view that "it's cuz of Trump whipping people up into a frenzy", when in fact, I think these similar shifts happening in other countries would indicate that, with or without Trump, a shift to the right may be the predictable response to progressives moving too far left (and more importantly, too quickly) on some of the social issues.


Obviously, on social issues, things always tend to trend leftward (with the exception of maybe the topic of abortion). If you look at the partisan support stats for many of the social issues apart from that one, you can see them trending left (but slowly). For instance, you're more likely to find a republican in 2024 that supports marijuana and SSM than would've been to find a democrat who supported those things in 1992. And even on topics like Universal healthcare and climate change, republicans (as a whole) have shifted toward the "progress" position (albeit not as pronounced as the other two issues I mentioned, but the percentage of republicans saying climate change is a real issue going from 18% to 32% in the past 15 years still marks a shift none the less).

That tells me that people are willing to (figuratively) wade out to the deeper end of the pool if you do it at a slower pace (that they feel they have some input/control on), but they don't seem to like the "well, like it or not, you're getting tossed in the deep end, you don't get to have a say".

At the end of the day, just about everyone (from across the spectrum) would like to feel like the changes they make are at least somewhat on some their terms vs. happening due to a top-down mandate coming from a faction they're at odds with.

...and when given the choices with "rapid-paced changes that feel big and scary" or "guy who will let me keep doing things the way I've always done them" (even if some of those things aren't great), many will run into the welcoming arms of the latter, as where, they may be a little more receptive to some of those changes if afforded the time to make those shifts more organically.
 
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RDKirk

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It's almost completely a matter if immigration policy, particularly immigration policy regarding Muslims. The problem is with immigrants who A. Don't assimilate and B. Have a fundamentally opposing culture that won't assimilate.
 
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trophy33

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Do you have more information than just this statement? I can buy in if it's based on information.
For example, The Brothers of Italy. Even wiki calls them "right wing", however their social program is for things like free childcare, hiring mothers, child benefits etc.
 
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rambot

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For example, The Brothers of Italy. Even wiki calls them "far right", however their social program is for things like free childcare, hiring mothers, child benefits etc.
Ok. That's interesting. Are there other examples or, like links where we can get more details?
 
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trophy33

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Ok. That's interesting. Are there other examples or, like links where we can get more details?
For example, the National Rally of Le Pen is always described as far-right by media, however their social/economic policies are:
- economic protectionism through tariffs
- state interventionism in industry
- opposition to globalism
- against/skeptic about free trade agreements like CETA
- against economic liberalism
- "anti-elites"

I do not have any special links, just their online programs or what I hear them saying here or there. For example articles like this:
 
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Friedrich Rubinstein

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I think context is important with regards to the different Overton Windows each country has though when evaluating those labels.

For instance, someone like Geert Wilders would be "far right" within the context of what has been "the Norm" in the Netherlands.
I don't want to derail your thread, so if your focus lies on the general rise of "the right" and its connection to Trump or lack thereof, you can safely ignore my comment ;) My only dissatisfaction lies in the fact that for the longest time by "far right" we meant neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Now we are lumping everyone right of center together as "far right" - not just in US media but even here in the European mainstream media. I think it is fairly obvious a tactic to de-legitimize anyone who holds different views than the mainstream media, and don't think we should participate in that.

As for your point regarding Trump, I think you're absolutely correct. The shift in our national politics over here has nothing to do with Trump, it's mostly about un-vetted immigration, particularly from Muslim-majority countries.
 
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Merrill

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Parties like the Front Nationale and AfD are NOT "far-right"

organizations like the Golden Dawn in Greece, or the NPD are certainly far-right--they are not winning any elections

what we see is not a major shift to right-wing politics, but a reaction against failed neoliberal and left-wing policies in Europe: uncontrolled, mass-immigration, the collapse of industrialization in places like Germany, rising inflation, and Cold War foreign adventurism

Germany's "green energy" disaster is another factor, as they decommissioned all their nuclear plants and turned off many of their fossil fuel plants in order to go green. The result was a doubling of consumer energy prices, brown-outs, dependance on Russia (which then used this as a factor in invading Ukraine), and some of the worst CO2 emissions in Europe.

What Europe needs going forward is competent leadership and administration, not politicized science, nonsense social policy, and globalism-at-any-cost. The people in this countries don't want WWIII either, and want a peace agreement in the Ukraine.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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The media doesn't even know anymore what is "right". Anyone right of center is labelled "far-right" nowadays.
Yes it is. Those of us who remember normal know that far right and far left have moved into extremes but that does not represent the group.
 
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IceJad

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The cause and affect. If the "left" has been doing a good job looking after the people instead of pushing ideological societal change like going full green and uncontrolled immigration there wouldn't be a shift in support.

Between the prospect of continuing to support something you don't benefit or someone promising a change, it is not hard to see why people would choose the latter.

I always believe that nothing happens in a vacuum. To those who think people just got fascist have not see the trend and understand the grassroot frustrations. It took a good 2 decades for the people to turn. It has been a slow moving train now reaching its intended station. Like the elite politicians they fail to take into account the general public's interest. Rather they come up with policies they perceived the people needed.

In Europe's case it is a good thing. Having the same people or group of people with the same tired ideology and methodology in charge for a long time is unhealthy for any society. Change is good. There will come a point when the "far-right" would become the very thing they champion against (being in power too long does that). Then the people will going back to the "left". And so the cycle continues.

Same thing happened in my country in the last election and I can foresee another flip in the future election.

Cause = elites deciding by themselves without understanding the people.
 
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JSRG

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For example, the National Rally of Le Pen is always described as far-right by media, however their social/economic policies are:
- economic protectionism through tariffs
- state interventionism in industry
- opposition to globalism
- against/skeptic about free trade agreements like CETA
- against economic liberalism
- "anti-elites"

I do not have any special links, just their online programs or what I hear them saying here or there. For example articles like this:
In some fairness on National Rally, it should be noted the "far right" was a fairly apt description in the past; its founder (Jean-Marie Le Pen) had more extreme views and was in fact a Holocaust skeptic. His daughter, Marie Le Pen, has been in charge of the party since 2011 and worked to try to expel the more extreme elements (she ended up kicking her father out of the party he started) and moderate the message a bit. Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also when the party started gaining popularity and winning more elections.

A similar thing happened with the Sweden Democrats, where the original founders were undoubtedly far right, but over time more moderate (though still right-wing) people took control of the party, kicked out the extremists, and made the party rise in popularity, culminating in the 2022 election where it become the second largest party in their parliament and part of the ruling coalition (technically they aren't a formal member of the ruling coalition and are instead "confidence and supply", but it gives them a whole lot more say over government policies than they ever had before).

Granted, by the standards of their countries, perhaps they could still be called "far right" as I believe they are the most right-wing parties in their parliaments. But the term "far right" generally conjures up ideas of parties more extreme than these ones presently are.
 
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Nithavela

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In Europe's case it is a good thing. Having the same people or group of people with the same tired ideology and methodology in charge for a long time is unhealthy for any society. Change is good. There will come a point when the "far-right" would become the very thing they champion against (being in power too long does that). Then the people will going back to the "left". And so the cycle continues.
Except that the far right has the bad habit of not allowing people to vote them out of office once they obtain it.
 
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Nithavela

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Germany's "green energy" disaster is another factor, as they decommissioned all their nuclear plants and turned off many of their fossil fuel plants in order to go green. The result was a doubling of consumer energy prices, brown-outs, dependance on Russia (which then used this as a factor in invading Ukraine), and some of the worst CO2 emissions in Europe.
That line about brown outs is a bald faced lie. There have been no brown outs or black outs in germany because of a lack of energy supply.
 
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trophy33

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In some fairness on National Rally, it should be noted the "far right" was a fairly apt description in the past; its founder (Jean-Marie Le Pen) had more extreme views and was in fact a Holocaust skeptic. His daughter, Marie Le Pen, has been in charge of the party since 2011 and worked to try to expel the more extreme elements (she ended up kicking her father out of the party he started) and moderate the message a bit. Perhaps not coincidentally, this is also when the party started gaining popularity and winning more elections.

A similar thing happened with the Sweden Democrats, where the original founders were undoubtedly far right, but over time more moderate (though still right-wing) people took control of the party, kicked out the extremists, and made the party rise in popularity, culminating in the 2022 election where it become the second largest party in their parliament and part of the ruling coalition (technically they aren't a formal member of the ruling coalition and are instead "confidence and supply", but it gives them a whole lot more say over government policies than they ever had before).

Granted, by the standards of their countries, perhaps they could still be called "far right" as I believe they are the most right-wing parties in their parliaments. But the term "far right" generally conjures up ideas of parties more extreme than these ones presently are.
Many parties today are mixed in their policies. Some of their policies are to the right, some are to the left. And parties being called far-right have quite a lot of far-left policies.

However, for example being a Holocaust skeptic is not left or right.
 
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IceJad

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Except that the far right has the bad habit of not allowing people to vote them out of office once they obtain it.

Fallacy, which democratic European country has experience that? Which example you can provide? Russia under Putin? The guy trained by the KGB the Soviets which is a left leaning political ideology btw. Everyone knows Putin is hardcore Soviet. He even changed the Russian national anthem back to the Soviet's. Or Belarus maybe which only have one clean election whom is fond of the Russian's Soviet ideology?

I don't see people like Meloni not allowing people to vote them out. Even Hungry's Orban only nearly won the elections. Meaning there he is not stopping anyone from voting him out. Just that for certain countries there are more people who are in agreement with his positions.

Stop the incorrect "far-right" labelling as though there is a universal determinant. Media like to use labels they have little to no understanding of. In China under CCP anyone who is a nationalist is actually a leftist. Because CCP rules under the ideology of socialism and communism in definition LEFT leaning. But in modern day politics nationalism is categorized as "right". What a misnomer. In reality nationalism can be a characteristic of both left and right.
 
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