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Southern Baptist Convention doesn't vote to expel churches with female pastors , but does vote to condemn IVF

essentialsaltes

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Southern Baptists may ban churches with women pastors. Some are urging them to reconsider

The Southern Baptist Convention is preparing to vote on a proposed constitutional ban on churches with women pastors.​

At the SBC’s annual meeting June 11-12 in Indianapolis, representatives will vote on whether to amend the denomination’s constitution to essentially ban churches with any women pastors — and not just in the top job. That measure received overwhelming approval in a preliminary vote last year.

Leaders of First Baptist — which has given millions to Southern Baptist causes and has been involved with the convention since its 19th century founding — are bracing for a possible expulsion.

“We are grieved at the direction the SBC has taken,” the church said in a statement.

By some estimates, the proposed ban could affect hundreds of congregations and have a disproportionate impact on predominantly Black churches.

Since Baptist churches are independent, the convention can’t tell them what to do or whom to appoint as a pastor.

But the convention can decide which churches are in and which are out. And even without a formal amendment, its Executive Committee has begun telling churches with women pastors that they’re out. That included one of its largest, Saddleback Church of California.

--

The SBC will also decide whether to condemn IVF.
 

ThatRobGuy

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The SBC's member-churches (not referring to the entirety of churches that identify as Baptist) have been dwindling for the past decade or two.

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The number of people who are members of a "SBC-affiliated" church started dropping in 2006, and hasn't swung that trajectory back in the other direction since.

Being a "religious outsider", I see this two ways.

I'll take religion out of it, and just treat it like any other ideologically driven group that's based on a core set of principles and bylaws.

A) On one hand, as times and demographics and attitudes change, rigid adherence to certain rules is certainly going to come at the cost of membership numbers if certain attitudes in the general public are changing with each iteration of "population recycling" (a "nice way" of saying "when older people die, and younger people take their place")

B) on the other hand, Even if social attitudes are changing, an ideological organization understandably wouldn't want to break from too many of their principles and bylaws. If they did that too much (and bent to public attitudes on everything), then the whole thing just becomes a weekly generic social gathering... in which case, if the only thing you have in common with the people in the group are that you call go to the same building once a week and hang out for an hour (and ideas are all over the place apart from that), then what's the point?


To use a non-religious analogy.

Say there was an animal rights/vegan organization (like PETA)... They have it written as one of their core rules that their member chapter leaders aren't allowed to consume any animal products.

Demographics change in the <insert region here> part of the country, and people in those areas start redefining the term "vegan" to include vegetarians, pescatarians, and people who eat plant-based 6 days a week, but then give themselves a cheat day where they can consume some dairy.

To accommodate the changing attitudes of the regions they're in, and keep their local chapter membership numbers higher (without regard for the "parent org", they start allowing people who are pescatarians and "dairy once a week" to hold leadership positions in the chapter.

I could see why the parent org might want to say "no, I don't care if the popular opinion in Green Bay Wisconsin think is "it's still vegan if you only eat cheese once in a while... that's not what our bylaws say, and you shouldn't have leaders serving occasional cheese sticks during gatherings"


To put it in consumerist terms, each denomination is a "brand", they each have their own distinct rules and interpretations. If you go down the path of watering them all down to the point where they all accept everything and bend to every notion of "inclusion", then every church becomes Unitarian in theory. "Come in, believe whatever you want...or don't... just grab some food and socialize for an hour" isn't a religion anymore, it's more like an office summer picnic.
 
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RileyG

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There’s been a bunch of schisms in the SBC affiliation, along with other Baptist groups.

They have a right to say no if that’s their theology.

Of course with most Christian sects it’s just divide, divide, divide, sadly.

Thus, there are 60,000+ different sects today.
 
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PloverWing

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It makes me sad, but it's consistent with the direction the SBC has been taking in the last few decades. Now that they have added a male-only-ministry clause to their statement of faith, I'm not surprised that they're expelling congregations who disagree.

They have a right to say no if that’s their theology.

The theology of the denominational leadership is to exclude women. The theology of the congregations is more diverse, although it's becoming less diverse as congregations are expelled or choose to leave. The Southern Baptists aren't supposed to be top-down in their decision-making structure -- formally, they're democratic and congregational -- but power-plays can happen in any large group, and here we are.
 
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RileyG

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It makes me sad, but it's consistent with the direction the SBC has been taking in the last few decades. Now that they have added a male-only-ministry clause to their statement of faith, I'm not surprised that they're expelling congregations who disagree.



The theology of the denominational leadership is to exclude women. The theology of the congregations is more diverse, although it's becoming less diverse as congregations are expelled or choose to leave. The Southern Baptists aren't supposed to be top-down in their decision-making structure -- formally, they're democratic and congregational -- but power-plays can happen in any large group, and here we are.
I see.

I do know there are can be issues regarding statements of faith and doctrines for those who have no official episcopal hierarchy or “church government” such as Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, Congregational, Presbyterian, various Baptist etc.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Southern Baptists may ban churches with women pastors. Some are urging them to reconsider

The Southern Baptist Convention is preparing to vote on a proposed constitutional ban on churches with women pastors.​

At the SBC’s annual meeting June 11-12 in Indianapolis, representatives will vote on whether to amend the denomination’s constitution to essentially ban churches with any women pastors — and not just in the top job. That measure received overwhelming approval in a preliminary vote last year.

Leaders of First Baptist — which has given millions to Southern Baptist causes and has been involved with the convention since its 19th century founding — are bracing for a possible expulsion.

“We are grieved at the direction the SBC has taken,” the church said in a statement.

By some estimates, the proposed ban could affect hundreds of congregations and have a disproportionate impact on predominantly Black churches.

Since Baptist churches are independent, the convention can’t tell them what to do or whom to appoint as a pastor.

But the convention can decide which churches are in and which are out. And even without a formal amendment, its Executive Committee has begun telling churches with women pastors that they’re out. That included one of its largest, Saddleback Church of California.

--

The SBC will also decide whether to condemn IVF.
This decision is more aligned with God's Word.
 
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Zaha Torte

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They used to think that about slavery, too.
The difference being that the Bible does not condone slavery.

Anyone can try and wrest the scriptures - to try and make them say whatever they want - which is why these female pastors exist in the first place.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Not surprising as it was written by men with a male centric worldview.
Men who had an understanding of the Patriarchal Order of Heaven as revealed to them by God Himself.

We are all equally valued in God's eyes - but each of us has our own mission to fulfill - men and women are different - God has given specific roles to men and to women.

I would love to talk about it greater detail if you are willing.
 
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BCP1928

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Men who had an understanding of the Patriarchal Order of Heaven as revealed to them by God Himself.

We are all equally valued in God's eyes - but each of us has our own mission to fulfill - men and women are different - God has given specific roles to men and to women.

I would love to talk about it greater detail if you are willing.
Sounds like something for a 'Christians only' forum. Nobody else cares very much any more about a patriarchal society--except maybe Muslims.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Sounds like something for a 'Christians only' forum. Nobody else cares very much any more about a patriarchal society--except maybe Muslims.
Maybe - but it is more relevant to the OP than the interests of people who don't care about the subject.
 
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Hazelelponi

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This is good. Hopefully it passes.

I don't know what Atheists and other non Christians care about church matters though.

This is a matter of Scripture and it's proper interpretation.

Not really a public issue.
 
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BCP1928

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Maybe - but it is more relevant to the OP than the interests of people who don't care about the subject.
Perhaps, but an honest discussion of the subject would be troublesome to the moderators. You might get away with it on a Christians only' board.
 
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RileyG

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It leaves out the voice of half the population.
Depends what you mean by that. But overall the Abrahamic faiths are patriarchal, yes.
 
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BCP1928

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The difference being that the Bible does not condone slavery.
According to you (me too BTW), but it did then, to them. That was their doctrine and they preached it. They saw their error, (in 1995) and corrected it. But what are they preaching now? Have they got it right this time?
Anyone can try and wrest the scriptures - to try and make them say whatever they want - which is why these female pastors exist in the first place.
It depends on how you wrest them.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Perhaps, but an honest discussion of the subject would be troublesome to the moderators. You might get away with it on a Christians only' board.
I don't think anyone needs to be Christian to know and understand the Bible.
 
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Zaha Torte

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According to you (me too BTW), but it did then, to them. That was their doctrine and they preached it. They saw their error, (in 1995) and corrected it. But what are they preaching now? Have they got it right this time?
Yes - because it agrees with the Bible.
It depends on how you wrest them.
We should not wrest them.
 
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