The Republican Embracing of a Felon, is a Disaster

Stephen3141 · Jun 7, 2024

The Republican choice for a presidential candidate convicted of felonies, is having its effect.

To continue down this path, means that the Republican Party will have to start asserting that the fair rule of law in America, is something that can be discarded, whenever they wish.

Continuing to support Trump, is a disastrous choice.

'Opting out': Major retailer refuses to sponsor GOP convention to nominate Trump

rambot · Jun 7, 2024

Stephen3141 said:
The Republican choice for a presidential candidate convicted of felonies, is having its effect.

To continue down this path, means that the Republican Party will have to start asserting that the fair rule of law in America, is something that can be discarded, whenever they wish.

Continuing to support Trump, is a disastrous choice.

'Opting out': Major retailer refuses to sponsor GOP convention to nominate Trump

I think you will find this agreement/disagreement with this statement will NOT be:
Democrat/Republican.... was what would make sense but...

ProTrump/NotProTrump

I don't think there is a candidate that Democrats could field that Republicans wouldn't be absolutely up in arms over....but I CAN say I know quite a few Democrats who would be VERY happy with a different Republican candidate.

As I've said before regarding Trump: I have no problem just disagreeing with a candidate. My problem with Trump is that nobody should trust him....let alone trust him to run a country because his lack of moral character. I know politicians are not exactly "the most trustworthy people" but the mistake is in thinking that "high powered business people" ARE trustworthy people.
Leader Narcissism and Outcomes in Organizations: A Review at Multiple Levels of Analysis and Implications for Future Research
The Top 25 Most Narcissistic CEOs In Tech

REALLY powerful business people are the OPPOSITE of someone you want to have in government.

GoldenBoy89 · Jun 7, 2024

Stephen3141 said:
The Republican choice for a presidential candidate convicted of felonies, is having its effect.

To continue down this path, means that the Republican Party will have to start asserting that the fair rule of law in America, is something that can be discarded, whenever they wish.

Continuing to support Trump, is a disastrous choice.

'Opting out': Major retailer refuses to sponsor GOP convention to nominate Trump

That was true even before his conviction. It is self destruction for them to continue in this direction and ironically no republican has ever resonated more with the base. It’s like a whirlpool of lies, conspiracies, grifting and corruption. I really don’t see any way to bring these folks back to reality.

Oh well.

Brihaha · Jun 7, 2024

Yes, the juxtaposition of the former party of law and order is perplexing to say the least. They too will reap what they've sown. Maybe they will have to hold their convention in Ho Chi Minh City after all lol.

Zaha Torte · Jun 7, 2024

Stephen3141 said:
The Republican choice for a presidential candidate convicted of felonies, is having its effect.

To continue down this path, means that the Republican Party will have to start asserting that the fair rule of law in America, is something that can be discarded, whenever they wish.

Continuing to support Trump, is a disastrous choice.

'Opting out': Major retailer refuses to sponsor GOP convention to nominate Trump

I believe that this was the goal of the case against Trump - not for justice - but so they can label him a felon.

Same with the impeachments.

rambot · Jun 7, 2024

Zaha Torte said:
I believe that this was the goal of the case against Trump - not for justice - but so they can label him a felon.

Same with the impeachments.

Not of prosecuting a crime hey?

I think it's good that someone who has broken the law oh so many times, can now be called a criminal.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 7, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Umm, Babylon Bee is a satire site, just as the Onion is.

The problem with the Babylon Bee is that you get a bit of Poe's Law effect with them. Their "satirical headlines" are frequently not far off of things that people on the far right are actually saying - thus, people tend to "eat the honey" (to riff on "eating The Onion") fairly often.

rambot · Jun 7, 2024

Everything works until Trump is adversely affected by it. Then it's broken. Notice that?

AlexB23 · Jun 7, 2024

RocksInMyHead said:
The problem with the Babylon Bee is that you get a bit of Poe's Law effect with them. Their "satirical headlines" are frequently not far off of things that people on the far right are actually saying - thus, people tend to "eat the honey" (to riff on "eating The Onion") fairly often.

Agreed. The past 8 years has been a real life Onion or Babylon Bee article, with both sides of the aisle going off the deep end.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 7, 2024

He became a felon after they chose him.

The order of the events does matter.

While I'm in 100% agreement that there were better choices than Trump for the GOP side of the fence, him becoming a felon after all of the primary competitors dropped out is not an insignificant detail.

If that's the going to be the precedent where "the other team is voting for a criminal (post-hoc)" is going to become a slam-ad talking point, then expect each of the respective factions to start going on fishing expeditions to find something they can convict the other side of each and every election cycle.

GoldenBoy89 · Jun 7, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
If that's the going to be the precedent where "the other team is voting for a criminal (post-hoc)" is going to become a slam-ad talking point, then expect each of the respective factions to start going on fishing expeditions to find something they can convict the other side of each and every election cycle.

So basically American politics of the past 20 years.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 7, 2024

GoldenBoy89 said:
So basically American politics of the past 20 years.

I dunno... in the past 20 years, have there been regional & state level prosecutors specifically running on the platform of "if you elect me, I'll go after <insert politician people in the area don't like> until I find something"?

Per Newsweek:
While campaigning, Bragg said: "I have investigated Trump and his children and held them accountable for their misconduct with the Trump Foundation. I also sued the Trump administration more than 100 times for the travel ban, So I know that work."

He also said that he would hold Trump "accountable"

Bragg continued to make frequent reference to his legal experience with the Trump family throughout the campaign.

The Manhattan District Attorney's office didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

I think things have escalated past the status quo "the other team's candidate is a crook" thing we've become accustomed to over the years. If prosecutors are basically campaigning on the promise of "I'll get this guy you don't like...for something", that represents a new level.

And rest assured, when most of the candidates for higher office at the federal level are people who've been career "public servants" and/or "well-connected" who inexplicably end up multi-millionaires themselves with billionaire backers, there's always going to be something to find if someone makes it their dedicated focus to find something.

Look at this list:

These 97 Members of Congress Reported Trades in Companies Influenced by Their Committees (Published 2022)

See the stocks the lawmakers reported buying and selling and how their trades potentially conflicted with the committees they sat on.

www.nytimes.com

If given enough time and resources, improprieties will be found lol. (and ones worse than "fudged some documents to cover up and affair from an adult film star")

Is this the sort of timeline and events that leads to these sort of nationwide-noteworthy court cases happening?

Trump hush money trial: A timeline of key events in the case

The events at the center of former President Donald Trump’s hush money case date back almost two decades, with new dates coming to light as the trial plays out in a Manhattan courtroom.

apnews.com

Granted, it'd probably not a be a bad thing if these types of standards and prosecutorial aggressiveness persisted across the board to go after wrong-doers. But to pull that many levers for one particular person (while never having done that for anyone else) is a problem.

We are a nation of laws, but more importantly, the laws should be applied equally.

Meaning, while it'd great if every crook got busted in accordance with their crimes. If 9 crooks went free, and 1 crook in particular actually got their just punishment (but for purely political reasons), that 1 crook getting their comeuppance is a bigger travesty of justice than those other 9 going free.

iluvatar5150 · Jun 7, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
He became a felon after they chose him.

The order of the events does matter.

While I'm in 100% agreement that there were better choices than Trump for the GOP side of the fence, him becoming a felon after all of the primary competitors dropped out is not an insignificant detail.

If that's the going to be the precedent where "the other team is voting for a criminal (post-hoc)" is going to become a slam-ad talking point, then expect each of the respective factions to start going on fishing expeditions to find something they can convict the other side of each and every election cycle.

All of the indictments came down in 2023, well before the primaries. Any reasonable person could’ve looked at this and saw that there’s a good chance he’s guilty of at least some of those crimes and a decent chance that he’d get nailed on at least one.

AlexB23 · Jun 7, 2024

Hey, at least Musk is not running for president, and has been caught for any major crimes, cos then we would have a fElon Musk running for president.

Just messin' around.

But yes, we as a country do have a felon running for president named Donald Trump. Hopefully, the Republicans can put up a new candidate with a clean record.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 7, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
All of the indictments came down in 2023, well before the primaries. Any reasonable person could’ve looked at this and saw that there’s a good chance he’s guilty of at least some of those crimes and a decent chance that he’d get nailed on at least one.

Right, but their was speculation (and well-founded speculation IMO...if I'm just speaking honestly) that said indictments were politically motivated, for some of the reasons I elaborate on in post # 16

iluvatar5150 · Jun 7, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
Right, but their was speculation (and well-founded speculation IMO...if I'm just speaking honestly) that said indictments were politically motivated, for some of the reasons I elaborate on in post # 16

That’s merely one case of four - and the one that virtually everybody thought was the weakest. There’s no reason to think the documents case, for example, was politically motivated, unless you’re just a mindless Trump simp.

Tinker Grey · Jun 7, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Hey, at least Musk is not running for president, and has been caught for any major crimes, cos then we would have a fElon Musk running for president. Just messin' around.

But yes, we as a country do have a felon running for president named Donald Trump. Hopefully, the Republicans can put up a new candidate with a clean record.

N.b., as Musk is not native born, he's not eligible to run.

AlexB23 · Jun 7, 2024

Tinker Grey said:
N.b., as Musk is not native born, he's not eligible to run.

The is true. Musk was born in Pretoria, South Africa, not the US, so that means he is not a native citizen.

Had to make a joke though, as Elon's name is one letter off from the word fElon.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 8, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
That’s merely one case of four - and the one that virtually everybody thought was the weakest. There’s no reason to think the documents case, for example, was politically motivated, unless you’re just a mindless Trump simp.

Actually, I think one can make a case that there's some political motivations intertwined within the documents case.

That's a unique one in that Trump was definitely a bad actor (in that he got called out on the carpet for having them, and decided to throw a hissy fit and merely claim he could "will things into a state of declassified")... whereas, the other people involved with such things promptly returned them (which is the sensible thing to do).

However, the fact that they even went down that rabbit hole in the first place specifically because "it's something we can get Trump on" is how it comes across.

Then after they did that, they started looking into who else may have some, and found that Biden and Pence both did (which, those two did the sensible thing and promptly cooperated)

Despite Biden returning them promptly when asked, the fact that there were a few boxes of them sitting in his garage since 2009 would lead one to believe that that's not typically a thing they're keeping a close watchful on eye and doing regular audits on.

Had Trump never kept documents, or had they not busted Trump on it in the way they did (which subsequently required them to look into other people to keep up the patina of even-handedness), there's a 99% chance those boxes of ones Joe had would still be sitting in his garage to this day collecting dust for another 10 years.

It's one of those things that's definitely an infraction...but one of those infractions that tends not be uncovered unless someone is in "looking for something...anything" mode.

iluvatar5150 · Jun 8, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
Actually, I think one can make a case that there's some political motivations intertwined within the documents case.

That's a unique one in that Trump was definitely a bad actor (in that he got called out on the carpet for having them, and decided to throw a hissy fit and merely claim he could "will things into a state of declassified")... whereas, the other people involved with such things promptly returned them (which is the sensible thing to do).

However, the fact that they even went down that rabbit hole in the first place specifically because "it's something we can get Trump on" is how it comes across.

Then after they did that, they started looking into who else may have some, and found that Biden and Pence both did (which, those two did the sensible thing and promptly cooperated)

Despite Biden returning them promptly when asked, the fact that there were a few boxes of them sitting in his garage since 2009 would lead one to believe that that's not typically a thing they're keeping a close watchful on eye and doing regular audits on.

Had Trump never kept documents, or had they not busted Trump on it in the way they did (which subsequently required them to look into other people to keep up the patina of even-handedness), there's a 99% chance those boxes of ones Joe had would still be sitting in his garage to this day collecting dust for another 10 years.

It's one of those things that's definitely an infraction...but one of those infractions that tends not be uncovered unless someone is in "looking for something...anything" mode.

AFAIK, your description of things is not accurate. The Archives know that some documents should exist and be accounted for. IIRC, they were expecting some set of documents to be delivered upon Trump’s leaving office and the fact that some of them were missing was what kicked off the investigation. They didn’t just go poking around Maralago.

I don’t know what docs Pence and Biden had, but presumably, they were ones the Archives didn’t know about and weren’t expecting.

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