• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Offending Others

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
3,087
620
64
Detroit
✟80,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Jesus said: "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:40. Are you suggesting that there is a difference between subjective and objective when we read and study the Bible.?
No. Of course not. If I asked you what day it is, are you going to tell me, "modern day"... unless you have something to hide, or are just playing games?

If specific aspects of the truth, is being discussed, do you think using broad statements addresses those specifics, or excuses one from addressing those specific aspects?

Did Jesus say, Go tell people all they have to do is love God and love their neighbor? He did not.
What it means to love God, isn't even understood and agreed on by the more than 45,000 different denomination with its over 2 billion people.

I'm suggesting that the specific statement is either true or false - In order for persons to understand God's word, they need to be taught by at least one of the disciples - a follower of Christ.
If it is true, and we realize that the Bible says it is true, we want to be honest enough and humble enough to admit it... even if we realize we were wrong.

Are you saying the statement is false, because love of God, and love of neighbor, invalidates the statement?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,307
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
45,000 different denomination with its over 2 billion people.
There are only 7 churches in rev with 7 angels. It is sort of amazing that 2 billion people are going to be saved.
In order for persons to understand God's word, they need to be taught by at least one of the disciples - a follower of Christ.
I do not need to be taught by anyone other than the Holy Spirit of God. I can read the Bible for myself. I do need people to teach me Hebrew so i get a deeper understanding when I understand the language. So maybe you are right to some degree.
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
3,087
620
64
Detroit
✟80,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are only 7 churches in rev with 7 angels. It is sort of amazing that 2 billion people are going to be saved.
Sounds like you take the number seven literal.
So, you really think there was only one congregation in those seven parts, after all that preaching and disciple making, and growth that exceeded 10,000?
That's really interesting.

I wonder what other numbers you take literal. The 1,000 years; the 144,00 kings and priest.
Would you like to share why you believe the seven there is literal?

I do not need to be taught by anyone other than the Holy Spirit of God. I can read the Bible for myself. I do need people to teach me Hebrew so i get a deeper understanding when I understand the language. So maybe you are right to some degree.
The Bible is right to every degree.
If you have another way of knowing what God does, and is doing, besides the Bible, then I think you already know that would set you on the wrong track, and it would be wrong to teach others the same.
 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,307
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
So, you really think there was only one congregation in those seven parts,
Seven churches in seven cities. A lot of the original churches are still there today. The problem for me is that it is easy to see any church fits the discription for one of those seven. The problem is some churches seem to fit the description for two of those churches. Perhaps at some point in the past they blended two churches together. This is the case with the United Church of Christ. The church we have been associated with for is a Pilgrim Church. They are a part of the United Church of Christ. Which people consider to be a dead church but my experience with them is that they are not a dead church at all and take things very serious.
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
3,087
620
64
Detroit
✟80,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Seven churches in seven cities. A lot of the original churches are still there today.
It is possible to trace history, and learn something about the early Church during the period of 60-100 AD.
For example, there are bishops mentioned... Papias, being one, who is said to have lived from 60 – 130 AD.
He is refered to as Bishop of Hierapolis.
The diocese of Hierapolis, was a Christian bishopric in Phrygia (modern central Turkey).
Through the influence of the Christian apostle Paul, a church was founded at Hierapolis while he was at Ephesus. The Christian apostle Philip spent the last years of his life here. The town's martyrium was alleged to have been built upon the spot where Philip was crucified in AD 80. His daughters were also said to have acted as prophetesses in the region.

There is no mention of Hierapolis by John.
I'm thinking, there were many other congregations which were formed, and would have been existing, which had many bishops, during that period.
I figure that would be a few hours of research, so I would prefer to do that another time.

I wouldn't take the number 7 as literal there, for that reason.
Seven congregations after AD 70, sounds like almost a wipeout of the early Christians. Was that the case? I don't know.

Persecution of the early church occurred sporadically and in localized areas from the start. The first persecution of Christians organized by the Roman government was under the emperor Nero in AD 64 after the Great Fire of Rome and took place entirely within the city of Rome. The Edict of Serdica, issued in 311 by the Roman emperor Galerius, officially ended the Diocletianic persecution of Christianity in the East. With the publication in AD 313 of the Edict of Milan, persecution of Christians by the Roman state ceased. The total number of Christians who lost their lives because of these persecutions is unknown. The early church historian Eusebius, whose works are the only source for many of these events, speaks of "countless numbers" or "myriads" having perished. Walter Bauer criticized Eusebius for this, but Robert Grant says readers were used to this kind of exaggeration as it was common in Josephus and other historians of the time.​

I can't argue dogmatically against you, on this, since the evidence is scant, and Revelation does refer to the seven heads of the wild beast, as literally seven kings (kingdoms) Revelation 17:9, 10.
At the same time, the same book speaks of "the seven spirits of God that are before the throne", and which Jesus has. Revelation 1:4; Revelation 3:1
Revelation 4:5 reads, "... And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."

Then Revelation 5:1 introduces "the seven seals".
Revelation 5:6 speaks of a lamb, having seven horns and seven eyes, and explains that these seven eyes mean the seven spirits of God which have been sent out into the entire earth.
Don't you just love Revelation? The explanations are just fascinating!
So the seven spirits before the throne actually represents Jesus ability to completely see everything. Fascinating!

Then we have Revelation 8:2 speaking of the seven angels with seven trumpets.
Then Revelation 10:3 - seven thunders that spoke.
Then Revelation 15:1 - seven angels with seven plagues.

The number seven (7) in Revelation seems to have significant symbolic representation.
However, as I said before, I'm not going to be dogmatic about its use with the seven congregations.
Those whom God anointed with holy spirit, know how the number is being used there. They are guided by spirit concerning the deep things of God. Not me, the average reader.

This is not my opinion. It's actually scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:6-13
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

So, if you aren't willing to be taught by those persons, you won't know accurately.
Matthew 13:10, 11
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

The blind man walking through the desert, is no better off if he is led by a blind man.
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

The problem for me is that it is easy to see any church fits the discription for one of those seven. The problem is some churches seem to fit the description for two of those churches. Perhaps at some point in the past they blended two churches together. This is the case with the United Church of Christ. The church we have been associated with for is a Pilgrim Church. They are a part of the United Church of Christ. Which people consider to be a dead church but my experience with them is that they are not a dead church at all and take things very serious.
It sounds like you have a lot of guesswork going on there.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0