How old is the earth?

tonychanyt · May 31, 2024

AlexB23 · May 31, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Some Christians think the earth is between 6,000 and 15,000 years old, coinciding with the Neolithic Age. Astronomers think it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

Jesus turned water into wine in John 2:

How old was this wine?

If you asked the human observers/witnesses, the servants would say a few seconds old.

The story continued:

If you asked the expert, the banquet master, "How old is this wine?" He would say it was months or even years old.

So which answer is true?

Both are true, depending on the perspective. The supernatural perspective tells us that it was only a second old. The natural perspective tells us that it was at least some months old.

Similarly, in Genesis 1:

In the beginning, God created a 5-dimensional universe, 4-dimensional space-time, plus 1 spiritual dimension with dark matter and dark energy.

How old is the earth?

If we ask an astronomer from a natural perspective, he can only study present-day physical data based on scientific calculations. It is 4.5 billion years old. That's the scientific 4-D space-time perspective.

On the other hand, from the supernatural angle, if we read the passage literally, the present-day earth is only some thousands of years old. That's the biblical witnessed-time from the 5th-dimensional perspective.

So which answer is true?

Both are true depending on the time perspective. God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years of real history. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It focuses on the story of redemption. In terms of witnessed-time history, it is only some thousands of years old. On the other hand, from the scientific point of view, the earth is billions of years old.

This is different from Last Thursdayism because God tells me the contrary. God did not create the universe last Thursday. Genesis contradicts this. I can also contradict this. I was alive last Thursday. God was with me. God dwells in me. It happened in real live-time. I didn't see God create this universe last Thursday. I believe in the words of God, not Last Thursdayism.

Jesus spoke about it as a historical witnessed-time event in Mark 10:

From the perspective of scientific time, the details of this embedding are amazing:

24,000-year-old animal found alive, well, and ready to reproduce

Fossils reveal what may be the oldest known case of the dino sniffles.

There are two different frameworks of time. Basically, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes. On the other hand, space-time is measured by scientific calculations. Both are physically or spatially real in their respective frameworks of time. Even scientifically, there is something funny about time.

See also Adam, Eve, and evolution.

Man, these types of posts discussing the age of the Earth get OLD real quick, pun intended. I am an OEC, just so you guys know, and am leaving this thread. God bless.

Titus 3:9: "avoid foolish debates, … they are unprofitable and worthless."

BobRyan · May 31, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Some Christians think the earth is between 6,000 and 15,000 years old, coinciding with the Neolithic Age. Astronomers think it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

Jesus turned water into wine in John 2:

How old was this wine?

If you asked the human observers/witnesses, the servants would say a few seconds old.

The story continued:

If you asked the expert, the banquet master, "How old is this wine?" He would say it was months or even years old.

So which answer is true?

Both are true, depending on the perspective. The supernatural perspective tells us that it was only a second old. The natural perspective tells us that it was at least some months old.

Similarly, in Genesis 1:

In the beginning, God created a 5-dimensional universe, 4-dimensional space-time, plus 1 spiritual dimension with dark matter and dark energy.

How old is the earth?

If we ask an astronomer from a natural perspective, he can only study present-day physical data based on scientific calculations. It is 4.5 billion years old. That's the scientific 4-D space-time perspective.

On the other hand, from the supernatural angle, if we read the passage literally, the present-day earth is only some thousands of years old. That's the biblical witnessed-time from the 5th-dimensional perspective.

So which answer is true?

Both are true depending on the time perspective. God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years of real history. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It focuses on the story of redemption. In terms of witnessed-time history, it is only some thousands of years old. On the other hand, from the scientific point of view, the earth is billions of years old.

This is different from Last Thursdayism because God tells me the contrary. God did not create the universe last Thursday. Genesis contradicts this. I can also contradict this. I was alive last Thursday. God was with me. God dwells in me. It happened in real live-time. I didn't see God create this universe last Thursday. I believe in the words of God, not Last Thursdayism.

Jesus spoke about it as a historical witnessed-time event in Mark 10:

From the perspective of scientific time, the details of this embedding are amazing:

24,000-year-old animal found alive, well, and ready to reproduce

Fossils reveal what may be the oldest known case of the dino sniffles.

There are two different frameworks of time. Basically, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes. On the other hand, space-time is measured by scientific calculations. Both are physically or spatially real in their respective frameworks of time. Even scientifically, there is something funny about time.

See also Adam, Eve, and evolution.

On Day 1 of Adam's life he is an adult, he is married, he names all the species, he has command of language, and is given management of Earth

A lot of info downloaded into Adam's brain "on day 1" and physically he looks like an adult human - not .. a ... zygote.

two days prior to making animal life on Earth -- plants are made - and they are "old enough" to be eaten as food - in just two days time.

So then animals, plants and humans all function as in their adult form right out of the gate according to the Bible.

Do we then go to a biologist and say "yes but how old do they look to you" --- to get "the real" answer?

BNR32FAN · May 31, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Some Christians think the earth is between 6,000 and 15,000 years old, coinciding with the Neolithic Age. Astronomers think it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.

Jesus turned water into wine in John 2:

How old was this wine?

If you asked the human observers/witnesses, the servants would say a few seconds old.

The story continued:

If you asked the expert, the banquet master, "How old is this wine?" He would say it was months or even years old.

So which answer is true?

Both are true, depending on the perspective. The supernatural perspective tells us that it was only a second old. The natural perspective tells us that it was at least some months old.

Similarly, in Genesis 1:

In the beginning, God created a 5-dimensional universe, 4-dimensional space-time, plus 1 spiritual dimension with dark matter and dark energy.

How old is the earth?

If we ask an astronomer from a natural perspective, he can only study present-day physical data based on scientific calculations. It is 4.5 billion years old. That's the scientific 4-D space-time perspective.

On the other hand, from the supernatural angle, if we read the passage literally, the present-day earth is only some thousands of years old. That's the biblical witnessed-time from the 5th-dimensional perspective.

So which answer is true?

Both are true depending on the time perspective. God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years of real history. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It focuses on the story of redemption. In terms of witnessed-time history, it is only some thousands of years old. On the other hand, from the scientific point of view, the earth is billions of years old.

This is different from Last Thursdayism because God tells me the contrary. God did not create the universe last Thursday. Genesis contradicts this. I can also contradict this. I was alive last Thursday. God was with me. God dwells in me. It happened in real live-time. I didn't see God create this universe last Thursday. I believe in the words of God, not Last Thursdayism.

Jesus spoke about it as a historical witnessed-time event in Mark 10:

From the perspective of scientific time, the details of this embedding are amazing:

24,000-year-old animal found alive, well, and ready to reproduce

Fossils reveal what may be the oldest known case of the dino sniffles.

There are two different frameworks of time. Basically, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes. On the other hand, space-time is measured by scientific calculations. Both are physically or spatially real in their respective frameworks of time. Even scientifically, there is something funny about time.

See also Adam, Eve, and evolution.

Yeah this idea would account for isotopic decay if certain minerals and elements were created thru accelerated time. I think it’s plausible.

Diamond72 · May 31, 2024

tonychanyt said:
Basically, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes.

Recorded history began with Adam and Eve. We do have artifacts from people going back 40 to 60 thousand years.

Diamond72 · May 31, 2024

BobRyan said:
two days prior to making animal life on Earth -- plants are made - and they are "old enough" to be eaten as food - in just two days time.

Plants produce oxygen and mammals need oxygen to survive. At first oxygen was absorbed by the earth. Then when the earth reached its saturation point the oxygen began to change the atmosphere.

AV1611VET · Jun 20, 2024

Earth was created as old as God willed it to be.

But however old it is, it didn't GROW old, it CAME INTO EXISTENCE old.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Ace777 · Jun 20, 2024

tonychanyt said:
God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years of real history.

There was very rapid expansion in the beginning and that makes it look like "embedded" age because expansion is a LOT faster than the speed of light. They can look to see how much the universe has expanded but they do not know the expansion rate esp sense it is not consistent in a way that they can measure. The universe expanded 10.6 light years in less than the blink of an eye. They say Heavenly time is different than Earth time. For example Ezekiel 7:1 “Son of man, eat what you find. Eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.” He consumed a whole book in one swallow of time. Life should be so easy in school if we could swallow the whole book in an instant. Looking forward in time a day is 24 hours and when we look back in time a day is 8 billion years. Gods point of view is different than ours. Science can not catch up with the Bible. The Word of God is just to advanced from them to fully understand.

Ace777 · Jun 20, 2024

AV1611VET said:
But however old it is, it didn't GROW old, it CAME INTO EXISTENCE old.

Actually a 24 hour day is pretty slow when God can do what He wants in an instant.

AV1611VET · Jun 20, 2024

Welcome to CF, Ace! :wave:

AV1611VET · Jun 20, 2024

Ace777 said:
Actually a 24 hour day is pretty slow when God can do what He wants in an instant.

Yes, indeed.

But He took the six 24 hour day routes on purpose.

Qubit · Jun 20, 2024

Ace777 said:
He consumed a whole book in one swallow of time. Life should be so easy in school if we could swallow the whole book in an instant.

Consuming information, eh?

Jeremiah 15:16
"Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts."

Like eating Fruit in Eden. No plants had to die.

Ace777 · Jun 20, 2024

Qubit said:
Consuming information, eh?

People use to say they could put their text book under their pillow and absorb the information when they slept. That never worked for me.

1“Son of man,” He said to me, “eat what you find here. Eat this scroll, then go and speak to the house of Israel.”

2So I opened my mouth, and He fed me the scroll.

3“Son of man,” He said to me, “eat and fill your stomach with this scroll I am giving you.”

So I ate, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth.

Ace777 · Jun 20, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Welcome to CF, Ace!

Tks, looks like you have been around a while. Any advice for the new people?

AV1611VET · Jun 20, 2024

Ace777 said:
Any advice for the new people?

These guys are very good at what they know.

Pretty sharp, if you ask me.

Downright impressive.

And I've learned a lot from conversing with them.

But most are unbelievers, and some are downright rude.

Of which I, too, am guilty.

Roll with the punches, keep the faith, and pray, pray, pray.

God bless!

AV1611VET · Jun 20, 2024

Vambram, I love your testimony!

God bless!

Vambram · Jun 20, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Vambram, I love your testimony!

God bless!

Thank you, my brother in Christ. I love your testimony as well. May the Grace, Mercy, Love, and Blessings of the Lord Jesus Christ be always upon you and your family.

Ace777 · Jun 20, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Of which I, too, am guilty.

I was just reading how we are to build up and encourage in love. That is not always so easy to remember to do

exitstageright · Jun 29, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Man, these types of posts discussing the age of the Earth get OLD real quick, pun intended. I am an OEC, just so you guys know, and am leaving this thread. God bless.

Titus 3:9: "avoid foolish debates, … they are unprofitable and worthless."

This topic reminds of that song by Chicago-"Does anybody really knows what time it is?"

AlexB23 · Jun 29, 2024

exitstageright said:
This topic reminds of that song by Chicago-"Does anybody really knows what time it is?"

Whew, this was an old post from almost a month ago. But yes, Chicago is a good band. My favorite song by this band is "If You Leave Me Now".

How old is the earth?

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