[Catholics Only] I'm getting confused again.

Lady Bug · May 28, 2024

Hi, I don't know why this is happening, but I hope it doesn't devolve into another spiritual mess.

Before I came into the church, I had been exploring a different denomination which seemed very close to the full truth at the time. There were things that turned me off by the denomination, so I abandoned the idea, but now I'm feeling tempted again. There must be something that caused this. I'll try to think.

A particular stumbling block occurred yesterday when I was watching a video (came up as a suggested one). It was in regard to Matthew 5:23-24. The narrator of the video (who I have to admit, does have a magnetic quality about the way he preaches) was saying that the altar was something referring to Old Testament Law, and that while Jesus was making that statement, we were still under OT Law and that verse was referring to OT Law. It confused me because there are some Christians who separate some of Jesus' teachings for OT Law and some for NT Law. The preacher was trying to give a quote by Origen, the latter who said that the earliest Christians didn't have altars, and the preacher was trying to say that altars are an invention by the Catholic Church (sigh). I'm like, now what? :sigh:

AlexB23 · May 28, 2024

Lady Bug said:
Hi, I don't know why this is happening, but I hope it doesn't devolve into another spiritual mess.

Before I came into the church, I had been exploring a different denomination which seemed very close to the full truth at the time. There were things that turned me off by the denomination, so I abandoned the idea, but now I'm feeling tempted again. There must be something that caused this. I'll try to think.

A particular stumbling block occurred yesterday when I was watching a video (came up as a suggested one). It was in regard to Matthew 5:23-24. The narrator of the video (who I have to admit, does have a magnetic quality about the way he preaches) was saying that the altar was something referring to Old Testament Law, and that while Jesus was making that statement, we were still under OT Law and that verse was referring to OT Law. It confused me because there are some Christians who separate some of Jesus' teachings for OT Law and some for NT Law. The preacher was trying to give a quote by Origen, the latter who said that the earliest Christians didn't have altars, and the preacher was trying to say that altars are an invention by the Catholic Church (sigh). I'm like, now what?

Well, this is the verse in context. Matthew 5:23-24 talks about not killing people.

NIV Bible

AlexB23 · May 28, 2024

And hey, can you provide a link to the video and provide timestamps, so we can get more context? It would help us understand where you are coming from.

HTacianas · May 28, 2024

Lady Bug said:
Hi, I don't know why this is happening, but I hope it doesn't devolve into another spiritual mess.

Before I came into the church, I had been exploring a different denomination which seemed very close to the full truth at the time. There were things that turned me off by the denomination, so I abandoned the idea, but now I'm feeling tempted again. There must be something that caused this. I'll try to think.

A particular stumbling block occurred yesterday when I was watching a video (came up as a suggested one). It was in regard to Matthew 5:23-24. The narrator of the video (who I have to admit, does have a magnetic quality about the way he preaches) was saying that the altar was something referring to Old Testament Law, and that while Jesus was making that statement, we were still under OT Law and that verse was referring to OT Law. It confused me because there are some Christians who separate some of Jesus' teachings for OT Law and some for NT Law. The preacher was trying to give a quote by Origen, the latter who said that the earliest Christians didn't have altars, and the preacher was trying to say that altars are an invention by the Catholic Church (sigh). I'm like, now what?

If I may. At Matthew 5:23-24 Jesus is in fact speaking of the physical altar at the temple where Jews took their gifts -their sacrifices- to be offered. But the teaching carries over into Christianity regarding the Eucharist. If you approach the Eucharist and remember that you have something against someone by all means go and be reconciled first. The Didache says of it:

But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned.

That teaching of Jesus continues on. But as to altars, everyone is right. The earliest Christians did not have an altar the way the Jews did. No large stone altar, no large bronze implements. They had a table that the Eucharist was offered on just like today. Over time the table became known as the altar. So please don't listen to whoever that guy is. Honestly, whenever I hear a protestant preacher talk about some "invention of the Catholic Church" it makes my skin crawl.

RileyG · May 28, 2024

Disregard what he is saying. Some people like to sound smarter than they really are. He is just trying to lead people astray.

Lady Bug · May 28, 2024

AlexB23 said:
And hey, can you provide a link to the video and provide timestamps, so we can get more context? It would help us understand where you are coming from.

I can do that, but I don't know if it's right to post here. It may take a little while for me to find the timestamps.

AlexB23 · May 28, 2024

Lady Bug said:
I can do that, but I don't know if it's right to post here. It may take a little while for me to find the timestamps.

Thank you. It is perfectly right to post the video here, so we can help you. Thanks, this means a lot.

Lady Bug · May 28, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Thank you. It is perfectly right to post the video here, so we can help you. Thanks, this means a lot.

Ok, here is the video. The time stamp is between the 23 and 32 minute mark. I'm embarrassed to post it because someone may say "You watched that sheet?"

AlexB23 · May 28, 2024

Lady Bug said:
Ok, here is the video. The time stamp is between the 23 and 32 minute mark. I'm embarrassed to post it because someone may say "You watched that sheet?"

Hmm, some obscure preacher from a 1980s VHS tape on YouTube? But yes, there is not much info online about this pastor, so I recommend that you are careful, and stay away from him.

Solo81 · May 29, 2024

Lady Bug said:
Hi, I don't know why this is happening, but I hope it doesn't devolve into another spiritual mess.

Before I came into the church, I had been exploring a different denomination which seemed very close to the full truth at the time. There were things that turned me off by the denomination, so I abandoned the idea, but now I'm feeling tempted again. There must be something that caused this. I'll try to think.

A particular stumbling block occurred yesterday when I was watching a video (came up as a suggested one). It was in regard to Matthew 5:23-24. The narrator of the video (who I have to admit, does have a magnetic quality about the way he preaches) was saying that the altar was something referring to Old Testament Law, and that while Jesus was making that statement, we were still under OT Law and that verse was referring to OT Law. It confused me because there are some Christians who separate some of Jesus' teachings for OT Law and some for NT Law. The preacher was trying to give a quote by Origen, the latter who said that the earliest Christians didn't have altars, and the preacher was trying to say that altars are an invention by the Catholic Church (sigh). I'm like, now what?

Altars weren't a Catholic invention - we just changed what was sacrificed on the altar. Instead of bulls, rams, doves etc; that the Jews offered, we offer to the Eternal Father the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. We sacrifice the Lamb of God - which is precisely the sacrifice that God deems acceptable.

Christianity is Judaism fulfilled. The altar will always be necessary: it's dedicated/consecrated to a specific purpose and that sacrifice (Mass) is to be continued until human history is concluded by God at the fullness of time.

WarriorAngel · May 30, 2024

Lady Bug said:
Hi, I don't know why this is happening, but I hope it doesn't devolve into another spiritual mess.

Before I came into the church, I had been exploring a different denomination which seemed very close to the full truth at the time. There were things that turned me off by the denomination, so I abandoned the idea, but now I'm feeling tempted again. There must be something that caused this. I'll try to think.

A particular stumbling block occurred yesterday when I was watching a video (came up as a suggested one). It was in regard to Matthew 5:23-24. The narrator of the video (who I have to admit, does have a magnetic quality about the way he preaches) was saying that the altar was something referring to Old Testament Law, and that while Jesus was making that statement, we were still under OT Law and that verse was referring to OT Law. It confused me because there are some Christians who separate some of Jesus' teachings for OT Law and some for NT Law. The preacher was trying to give a quote by Origen, the latter who said that the earliest Christians didn't have altars, and the preacher was trying to say that altars are an invention by the Catholic Church (sigh). I'm like, now what?

They had altars.
The catacombs attest to this.

In the beginning in fact, the Apostles used the synagogues til an uprising.
Homes had altars where they would meet.

Evidently charismatic speakers might be interesting but they are devoid of the facts.

Only 1 Church came from Jesus Himself and I am so very certain the Holy Spirit is not Someone humans have the authority to correct... but often do since 1500 AD

And Origen?
Pre or post heresy?

WarriorAngel · May 30, 2024

Acts 13:42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

Acts 14:1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed. 4 The people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles. 5 There was a plot afoot among both Gentiles and Jews, together with their leaders, to mistreat them and stone them.

Acts 17:1 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 5 But other Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad characters from the marketplace, formed a mob and started a riot in the city. They rushed to Jason’s house in search of Paul and Silas in order to bring them out to the crowd.

Acts 19:8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.

WarriorAngel · May 30, 2024

Paul was a Rabbi.
He used the synagogues until the uprising. Til above...

AS with anything in the scriptures, they [Apostles] taught for aprox 40 years more or less before they wrote things later once things were established but we are to understand the teaching of the Jews was first.
As Jews they used the synagogues. Mass is a mirror like worship to the synagogues.
[But completion in the Sacrifice of the Lord]

Prisca and Aquila remained in Ephesus and let their home be used as a church (1 Corinthians 16:19).

House Churches in the New Testament · Mary's House Church · Lydia's House Church · Prisca and Aquila's House Churches · Nympha's House Church.

ALSO what are altars?
A place to do sacrifice.
Jesus said in Koine Greek 'Make this a Sacrifice Present.'
[We say 'Do this in memory of Me']

Jesus did the ultimate sacrifice and ultimately, His laws to have an altar [Also see Melchizedeh]
were foreshadowing as everything was a foreshadowing to His Ultimate Incarnation and Sacrifice.

The problem with the charismatic speaker is they may sound good, but they lack the full understanding and history of the beginning of the Church.

IF this man does not understand Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice and asked His Apostles to continue the Eucharist - and this speaker has lost the truth of this - then he is wrong. On so many levels.
As many are who lost the truth in 1500s.

[Catholics Only] I'm getting confused again.

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