Water Births

CoreyD · May 29, 2024

Caesarean section rates continue to rise, amid growing inequalities in access
According to new research from the World Health Organization (WHO), caesarean section use continues to rise globally, now accounting for more than 1 in 5 (21%) of all childbirths. This number is set to continue increasing over the coming decade, with nearly a third (29%) of all births likely to take place by caesarean section by 2030, the research finds.

I was told... born from water at John 3:5 is when the mother's water breaks and the baby is born of water.
If you search through these forums, you will likely find more than fifty (50) posts with similar statements to "The mother's water breaks and the baby is born of water......"
I have been told this more than once.

My question is, does such a view not mean that all persons born by caesarean section, are barred from heaven, because they cannot enter into their mother's womb again, and scream, "Push mommy. Push. Don't let them cut you. Push. I want to be born again.

"?

What does it mean to be born of water. Please see the Bible's answer.

Teresa W. · Jul 9, 2024

If the water here is referring to amniotic fluid, then it's present during cesarean births, too, the baby is pulled right out of the fluid. In vaginal births, the water can break hours before birth and therefore isn't even present during the delivery. I think the statement of 'being born of water and the spirit' shouldn't be taken too literally.

CoreyD · Jul 9, 2024

Teresa W. said:
If the water here is referring to amniotic fluid, then it's present during cesarean births, too, the baby is pulled right out of the fluid. In vaginal births, the water can break hours before birth and therefore isn't even present during the delivery.

Thank you.
You are very knowledgeable about this.
I researched this, and found this article very useful.
I found this interesting.
What’s being broken is actually the amniotic sac, filled with sterile fluid that surrounds the fetus. And yes, it is sterile, though after 20 weeks, the prominent substance in amniotic fluid is your baby’s urine (weird, right?). So, if your water breaks when you’re not yet in the hospital, your experience with cleaning up your baby’s pee may start before they’ve even made their entrance into the world.

This means that those who make the claim that one is born of water at birth, has more evidence against them. So they have both internal evidence, and external evidence denying their claim.
Very much appreciate your expertise, and your response to the OP.
Thank you.

Teresa W. said:
I think the statement of 'being born of water and the spirit' shouldn't be taken too literally.

When you say literally, what do you mean?
Do you mean Jesus was not saying that one needed to literally be baptized by water, and spirit, or do you mean, being born of water and spirit, is not to be understood as a literal water birth, and spirit birth?

If you meant the later, I think you are quite intelligent.
Not that I think you are unintelligent if you meant the former.

Ain't Zwinglian · Jul 9, 2024

CoreyD said:
I was told... born from water at John 3:5 is when the mother's water breaks and the baby is born of water.
If you search through these forums, you will likely find more than fifty (50) posts with similar statements to "The mother's water breaks and the baby is born of water......"
I have been told this more than once.

If indeed, “born of water” refers to natural biological birth, it would clearly be a hapax legomenon….a word or phrase which only occurs once in Scripture, and even stranger, this idiom is not found in Hellenistic literature as scholars inform us. It certainly is possible for “born of water” to refer to natural biological birth, but some very strong evidence should be marshaled to overcome the long historic interpretation “born of water” is water either referring to the power of the HS to cleanse us from sin or possibly baptism.

Natural birth isn’t caused by amniotic fluid and isn’t the only factor in natural birth. There are genitals, Fallopian tubes, conception, fluid in the umbilical cord, contractions, etc., of which amniotic fluid is one of the elements…. in a near-last long chain of events. Amniotic fluid or any other bodily fluid fails instrumentally as the cause of natural birth.

People are born from their mothers; they are not born from amniotic fluid. Bodily fluid isn’t what gives birth to them, their mother is. The Scriptures bears this out:

• For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. (I Cor 11:12)
• God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law (Gal. 4:4
• I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; (Luke 7:28)
• Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. (Job 14:1)
• Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world. (John 16:21)
• “How then can a man be just with God? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman? (Job 25:4)

Jesus was not talking about the difference between natural birth and spiritual birth. Furthermore, if "born of water" does refer to natural childbirth, why does Nicodemus need to be reminded he is already born? That would be redundancy. Why would anyone who has been naturally born need to be reminded of that fact? Existing is self evident and presupposed.

Jesus is not speaking of the doctrine of creation. He is speaking of redemption. Just how the interpreter handles it from here....is up to you.

CoreyD · Jul 9, 2024

Ain't Zwinglian said:
If indeed, “born of water” refers to natural biological birth, it would clearly be a hapax legomenon….a word or phrase which only occurs once in Scripture, and even stranger, this idiom is not found in Hellenistic literature as scholars inform us. It certainly is possible for “born of water” to refer to natural biological birth, but some very strong evidence should be marshaled to overcome the long historic interpretation “born of water” is water either referring to the power of the HS to cleanse us from sin or possibly baptism.

Ain't Zwinglian said:
Natural birth isn’t caused by amniotic fluid and isn’t the only factor in natural birth. There are genitals, Fallopian tubes, conception, fluid in the umbilical cord, contractions, etc., of which amniotic fluid is one of the elements…. in a near-last long chain of events. Amniotic fluid or any other bodily fluid fails instrumentally as the cause of natural birth.

Ain't Zwinglian said:
People are born from their mothers; they are not born from amniotic fluid. Bodily fluid isn’t what gives birth to them, their mother is. The Scriptures bears this out:

• For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. (I Cor 11:12)
• God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law (Gal. 4:4
• I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; (Luke 7:28)
• Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. (Job 14:1)
• Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world. (John 16:21)
• “How then can a man be just with God? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman? (Job 25:4)

That's a good point. Also, scripturally supported.

Ain't Zwinglian said:
Jesus was not talking about the difference between natural birth and spiritual birth. Furthermore, if "born of water" does refer to natural childbirth, why does Nicodemus need to be reminded he is already born? That would be redundancy. Why would anyone who has been naturally born need to be reminded of that fact? Existing is self evident and presupposed.

A very good point.
Jesus could have replied. Well, Nicodemus, you... in fact the whole world is born of water."
He could have cut to the chase, and simply said, 'Unless one is born of spirit...", if he was referring to natural child birth, as being born of water.

Ain't Zwinglian said:
Jesus is not speaking of the doctrine of creation. He is speaking of redemption. Just how the interpreter handles it from here....is up to you.

I'm sorry for them. Jesus already explained.
How we choose to interpret things is our own downfall.
We have no one else to blame for error, but ourselves... if we choose to go that course.

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Water Births

CoreyD

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Teresa W.

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CoreyD

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Ain't Zwinglian

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