At current rates of consumption, the U.S. has at least two centuries of oil, report says

Laodicean60

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Absolutely. We have a responsibility to take care of out planet. However, this requires accurate information and not scaremongering. The boy can only cry wolf so many times before people ignore him. Constant claims of climate cataclysm that fail to predict real world outcomes make it easier to write the wolf off as fiction. "When will this happen" is an important question. Answering that it will happen soon, and it doesn't happen soon, can hurt the cause as much as saying there's no threat to the environment.

It's one thing to show the effect of humans on climate over time. It's quite another to suggest that New York City will be underwater by the year 2000.
I agree with everything you said. The scaremongering that I've heard from the 70s till now and the science community not refuting the claims makes science look untrustworthy.
 
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wing2000

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I believe we SHOULD be good stewards if what we have. Should we just dump lead paint into the rivers just because the world is going to end? What about letting factories pump out toxic fumes? I say no. How about we just all dump our trash onto the side if the road? Absolutely not. We all have to live here.

...but generationg an increasing amount of CO2 into the atmosphere for the next 200 years is okay.
 
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Nithavela

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...but generationg an increasing amount of CO2 into the atmosphere for the next 200 years is okay.
Haven't you heard? Climate change is unstoppable, so what's the point?

That's the new line.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I'm sure you haven't read the rest of my thoughts on some of this. It ties in nicely. And I honestly don't have to want to type it over and over again.

I believe we SHOULD be good stewards if what we have. Should we just dump lead paint into the rivers just because the world is going to end? What about letting factories pump out toxic fumes? I say no. How about we just all dump our trash onto the side if the road? Absolutely not. We all have to live here.

And we want to enjoy a nice place without wearing masks cause we can't breath the polluted air or drink the polluted water.

But being a good steward and having a livable home is NOT the same thing as trying to stop the inevitable climate change and creating a bunch of goofy stuff that won't really do anything except cost all of us a ton of money.

I mean we could all go back to riding buggies and living in huts, but that still won't stop anything.

Let's dial back the rhetoric about how we are all responsible for killing the earth and all that nonsense. Making claims like electric cars will save rhe planet when we have NO IDEA that they will.

My mom wouldn't have allowed me to have a dirty room, no.matrwr what my excuse. And I don't want to live in a dirty land where I can't breathe or drink the water either.

So let's just quit making foolish assumptions. You all sound like nothing but a bunch of stuck records who can't get off the "all conservatives want dirty air and water" track.
The rapid pace of warming seen since the industrial revolution is/was no more "inevitable" than lead poisoning your rivers just because lead occurs in nature. It took human activity to do that. The only reason you don't recognize that is because your favored political tribe sold out to corporate interests a few decades ago and chose to feed you a bunch of nonsense that supported their agenda and helped keep the industrialists rich.
 
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Pommer

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Haven't you heard? Climate change is unstoppable, so what's the point?

That's the new line.
There’s a “new Earth” coming…because we will have used this old one all up!
 
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BCP1928

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I'm sure you haven't read the rest of my thoughts on some of this. It ties in nicely. And I honestly don't have to want to type it over and over again.

I believe we SHOULD be good stewards if what we have. Should we just dump lead paint into the rivers just because the world is going to end? What about letting factories pump out toxic fumes? I say no. How about we just all dump our trash onto the side if the road? Absolutely not. We all have to live here.

And we want to enjoy a nice place without wearing masks cause we can't breath the polluted air or drink the polluted water.

But being a good steward and having a livable home is NOT the same thing as trying to stop the inevitable climate change and creating a bunch of goofy stuff that won't really do anything except cost all of us a ton of money.

I mean we could all go back to riding buggies and living in huts, but that still won't stop anything.

Let's dial back the rhetoric about how we are all responsible for killing the earth and all that nonsense. Making claims like electric cars will save rhe planet when we have NO IDEA that they will.

My mom wouldn't have allowed me to have a dirty room, no.matrwr what my excuse. And I don't want to live in a dirty land where I can't breathe or drink the water either.

So let's just quit making foolish assumptions. You all sound like nothing but a bunch of stuck records who can't get off the "all conservatives want dirty air and water" track.
So we are to be good stewards of the Earth except when extracting and using fossil fuels. But petrochemicals are a diminishing resource, that's a fact however much you want to argue about when they will actually be exhausted. They are an essential source of lubricants, of petrochemical industrial feedstocks and have many other uses for which substitution would be difficult. It would be a really good idea to conserve fossil petrochemicals carefully. Instead, we just burn them up. That may count as "good stewardship" in your world view, but as a practical proposition it is not very smart.
 
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SimplyMe

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Here's the news for all of you. The earth is dying. It has been since it's creation and the fall. Everything dies. Stars die,planets die. It's the law. You are going to die and so are your children
The earth wint last forever. No matter what we do the the end will come. We aren't going to bring it about any faster by drilling for oil. We won't keep it lasting longer by going electric.

The good news is the human race will be long gone before the earth is destroyed. We've got a long time left. Minimim of a 1000 years. There's going to be bad times ahead. Wars, rumors of wars, famine and pestilence. Yet we will go on. The climate is changing, the earth is dying very slowly. It's not out fault we didn't kill it. We also won't save it.

The best we can do is endure it and come up ways to adapt to it until Christ returns. Then he'll be here for 1000 years and then shortly after the end will finally come for this Ole little rock.

In the end it doesn't matter. We are all only here for a short time. What matters is eternity. Which obviously is much longer. Do we want to spend it wishing we would have made different choices are are we going to spend it in the presence of the Lord. I know.where I'll be. Love to see you all there.

This sounds like the arguments I hear from people, particularly young people, about bad habits like smoking. Basically, they are going to die anyway and the bad effects are decades in the future, and they can always quit if it becomes a problem.

Personally, I think we need to do as God commanded in the Bible, to be good stewards of His Creation, the Earth.
 
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rjs330

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...but generationg an increasing amount of CO2 into the atmosphere for the next 200 years is okay.
It doesn't affect the climate. The climate is going to fo whatever the climate does. We aren't going to stop it. Like I said we could all go back to horse and buggy and the climate is still going to change. Its been warming since the ice age. Our cars are super clean. We have regulations on all.our factories. We are constantly making improvements. I think we are good. What we should be doing is looking into ways to mitigate tge effects of change. It's goingvto happen. We can't stop it. What are we going to do to mitigate it? Adapt to it. If we are smart we would be working hard to find ways to adapt to the changes instead of putting so much effort into trying to alter something we have no control over.
 
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BCP1928

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It doesn't affect the climate. The climate is going to fo whatever the climate does. We aren't going to stop it. Like I said we could all go back to horse and buggy and the climate is still going to change. Its been warming since the ice age. Our cars are super clean. We have regulations on all.our factories. We are constantly making improvements. I think we are good. What we should be doing is looking into ways to mitigate tge effects of change. It's goingvto happen. We can't stop it. What are we going to do to mitigate it? Adapt to it. If we are smart we would be working hard to find ways to adapt to the changes instead of putting so much effort into trying to alter something we have no control over.
Straight up denialism. Why is it so important to you to deny AGW? To resist any steps to cut CO2 emissions? What is your dog in this fight?
 
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rjs330

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The rapid pace of warming seen since the industrial revolution is/was no more "inevitable" than lead poisoning your rivers just because lead occurs in nature. It took human activity to do that. The only reason you don't recognize that is because your favored political tribe sold out to corporate interests a few decades ago and chose to feed you a bunch of nonsense that supported their agenda and helped keep the industrialists rich.
It appears your political tribe has decided once again that it has the power to control everything. Life would just be utopia if we just did whatever the leftists want because they know best. And what we'll do is scare everyone and make victims of everyone so they'll give us the power over every aspect of their lives.

And you'll feed us a bunch of nonsense like "oh we can save tge planet cause we are that powerful." It's all man's fault and man can save it all. Not going to buy it. No one has proven any change in climate was directly the fault of man.
 
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BCP1928

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It appears your political tribe has decided once again that it has the power to control everything. Life would just be utopia if we just did whatever the leftists want because they know best. And what we'll do is scare everyone and make victims of everyone so they'll give us the power over every aspect of their lives.

And you'll feed us a bunch of nonsense like "oh we can save tge planet cause we are that powerful." It's all man's fault and man can save it all. Not going to buy it. No one has proven any change in climate was directly the fault of man.
You oppose AGW because it's the tool of a leftist conspiracy to control your life?
 
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rjs330

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So we are to be good stewards of the Earth except when extracting and using fossil fuels. But petrochemicals are a diminishing resource, that's a fact however much you want to argue about when they will actually be exhausted. They are an essential source of lubricants, of petrochemical industrial feedstocks and have many other uses for which substitution would be difficult. It would be a really good idea to conserve fossil petrochemicals carefully. Instead, we just burn them up. That may count as "good stewardship" in your world view, but as a practical proposition it is not very smart.
Haven't you heard. We've got at least 200 years of it left. I'm sure by then we will have found new ways to propel us along. Haven't you heard the earth is still producing oil. There's oil all over and we are still finding it and finding ways to get it. Meanwhile we are also finding ways to be more efficient with using it. And we will continue to do so. Look how far we've advanced over the last hundred years. Think how far we'll have gone in two hundred more.
 
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BCP1928

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Haven't you heard. We've got at least 200 years of it left. I'm sure by then we will have found new ways to propel us along.
It's useful for too many things just to burn it up to propel us along.
Haven't you heard the earth is still producing oil. There's oil all over and we are still finding it and finding ways to get it. Meanwhile we are also finding ways to be more efficient with using it. And we will continue to do so. Look how far we've advanced over the last hundred years. Think how far we'll have gone in two hundred more.
Why wait until the oil's all gone?
 
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rjs330

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You oppose AGW because it's the tool of a leftist conspiracy to control your life?
It's definitely a tool to control our lives. But that's an aside. The left will use whatever scare tactic it can.
AGW in and if itself hasn't been proven. But the left has glommed onto it as if it has. And scare it produces is great for control. Give the left all the power and we'll tell you where to live, what to eat, what to drive, and you are allowed to do anywhere you are allowed to go.
 
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rjs330

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It's useful for too many things just to burn it up to propel us along.

Why wait until the oil's all gone?
We aren't goingvto do that. Didn't you read what I said? We are finding new ways to do things and will mist likely find new ways to propel us along so we aren't using it at the same rates. The earth is creating more oil all the time. Between everything we aren't going to use it all up. In two hundred years the left will have somethings else they've grabbed onto to tell us how we are destroying everything.
 
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wing2000

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It doesn't affect the climate.

Evidence suggest otherwise.
We don't know how much we are affecting the climate, but we most certainly are a contributor. We also know the climate is changing at a more rapid rate than past climate change events on earth.
 
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durangodawood

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Evidence suggest otherwise.
We don't know how much we are affecting the climate, but we most certainly are a contributor. We also know the climate is changing at a more rapid rate than past climate change events on earth.
Science > attitude

Thats basically all they have left: attitude.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Science > attitude

Thats basically all they have left: attitude.
"We can't do that" is basically an argument from incredulity. They can't fathom humans operating on a global scale, therefore, it's not possible in their minds.

Nevermind the fact that we have 12000 nukes that could launch us into a nuclear winter in fairly short order. That is apparently within the capabilities of mankind, but not pumping carbon gases into the air for a few hundred years.
 
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durangodawood

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"We can't do that" is basically an argument from incredulity. They can't fathom humans operating on a global scale, therefore, it's not possible in their minds.

Nevermind the fact that we have 12000 nukes that could launch us into a nuclear winter in fairly short order. That is apparently within the capabilities of mankind, but not pumping carbon gases into the air for a few hundred years.
And even just intuitively, youd think billions of people burning stuff for transportation, industry, household power, etc would have some bad global effects.

I can only attribute it to a political commitment, which, as we all have seen, is the deepest commitment many people make in this era.
 
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iluvatar5150

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And even just intuitively, youd think billions of people burning stuff for transportation, industry, household power, etc would have some bad global effects.

I can only attribute it to a political commitment, which, as we all have seen, is the deepest commitment many people make in this era.
There's a little bit of religious fatalism woven in there: God is going to rapture the Christians and destroy the world, so there's less incentive to keep the place nice.

But yeah, it's mostly political identity coloring one's perception of science.
 
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