We don’t have a vocations crisis, we have a crisis of faith

Well it is certainly dwindling and non-religious [stay at home God is everywhere] crowd keeps people believing basics. But no effort methodology.
And protestants are seeing church going down also.
Stay at home [non-denominational] is existing.

WarriorAngel said:

Well it is certainly dwindling and non-religious [stay at home God is everywhere] crowd keeps people believing basics. But no effort methodology.
And protestants are seeing church going down also.
Stay at home [non-denominational] is existing.

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Ever since the pandemic, when churches started offering Mass online (Protestant churches, too) i think people got used to watching online, while some say they will or do, but don’t. That’s not to say that the number of churchgoers wasn’t already declining before that, but I think it’s worse now. And for those who do watch it online, I can say from personal experience that watching online just isn’t even close to the same thing. There were too many distractions for me.

Michie said:

Much has been made about the supposed vocationscrisis within the Catholic Church in the United States in recent years. Concerned parties point to the declining number of priests and argue that we face a dire shortage that threatens the future of our parishes. However, a closer examination of the data reveals a different story — one that suggests the real crisis we face is not about vocations but about faith.

According to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA), the number of diocesan priests in the U.S. has indeed decreased from 37,272 in 1970 to 24,110 in 2022. Simultaneously, the Catholic population has grown from 54 million to 73 million. At first glance, these figures seem alarming. But when we delve deeper into the priest-to-parishioner ratios, a different narrative emerges.

The number of priests per active churchgoer — those attending weekly Mass — has actually improved. In 1970, 54% of Catholics attended weekly Mass, compared to just 17% in 2022. This means that in 1970, each priest served approximately 782 weekly Mass-goers, while today, each priest serves about 514. So why, if the priest-parishioner ratio has gone down, are people arguing that we’re seeing a vocations crisis?

Continued below.

We don't have a vocations crisis, we have a crisis of faith

Monthly confession, weekly Mass, daily prayer — this is our program to address the real crisis. Will you join the revolution of faith?

www.oursundayvisitor.com

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The priest-author of this essay reveals some clues to the problem imho:

He writes, "Monthly confession. Weekly Mass. Daily prayer. That’s the program." That program sounds excellent, to me, for the formation of part-time Catholics. Such a formation is hardly the way of Jesus, who called followers into a much more intensive immersion into a wholly different way of life!

As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
And he said to them, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men."
Immediately they left their nets and followed him.
And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them.
Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him. (Mt 4:18-22)

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What we were doing for a long time pre-Vat2 was just that, as I remember: "Monthly confession," then back to the world. "Weekly Mass," then back to the daily world, "Daily prayer" before eating and before bed, then back to the "reality" of the daily world. And I was formed for a part-time habit of "being Catholic" - a loyal Church member, but a stranger to Jesus. I did not know Him!

The four who were called in the passage above reveal a lot, besides their total call and commitment to Him. Peter, who presents the "petrine dimension" of the Church - the clerical state, and John, who presents the johannine dimension in all its mystery and spiritual depth. Peter and Andrew were busy casting; John and James were busy mending. We need, I suggest, not "rekindling", not "reigniting"; not more hyperactive busy Marthas, but more deeply transformed listening Marys. And we need "mended" nets to cast with more supernatural unction. Sometimes I feel we are trying to form "evangelizers" who are subtle salesmen who hardly know the product, but are friendly and nice influencers.

I see a lot of priests having youtube channels.
That reaches a lot. Let's hope.

A major factor in the present sad state of the institutional Church is well-described by Bp. Strickland, in terms of a falling into the natural - the worldly - and away from the essential spiritual supernatural truths of the Faith. Emphasis added, below, by me:

It is imperative that we also acknowledge that this tendency for the Church to be dominated by the fragile clay of this world – to the detriment of her true mission to build supernatural faith – has been gaining momentum for more than a century. More than one papacy is seriously implicated in the lack of supernatural faith necessary in order to push back against the tidal wave of apostasy. The Oath against Modernism promulgated by Pope St. Pius X in 1910 was the best (and perhaps the last) papal attempt to oppose the dominance of “fragile clay,” and since his death, support for this has weakened, until it has now been all but discarded like so many other aspects of this intention that did not promote a cozier relationship with the world.

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!

fide said:

The priest-author of this essay reveals some clues to the problem imho:

He writes, "Monthly confession. Weekly Mass. Daily prayer. That’s the program." That program sounds excellent, to me, for the formation of part-time Catholics. Such a formation is hardly the way of Jesus, who called followers into a much more intensive immersion into a wholly different way of life!

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See, every once in a while Fide goes deep on me and then I start thinking.

The vast majority of Catholic I grew up with dropped out somewhere along the way. Mostly it was sex scandals, control of money at the parish level and, in my Archdiocese anyway, gay marriage. (O, the fight we had).

But really, I think, it had to do with how we were all trained as Catholics when we were in our formative years (10 to 20). When I was in high school, post V2, I was taught some stuff they don't seem to stress anymore: service to others, an attitude of faithful tolerance, the ability to understand the documentation of the Church's rich and long theology (I was educated by Benediction's after all), living a life worthy of being a Christian example.

"Be like the nice guy in the pictures and go get me a cup of coffee" - That quote means something to me in my faith formation, sorry I just thought I'd throw it in.

Work. Pray.

NOW - on this forum, 54 years later, they call this "Bad Catechesis".

Okay.

Where was it bad ?

The V2 church used to teach that Christ gave us, his followers, our marching orders at the Sermon on the Mount, and it didn't include making life difficult for anybody, especially those anybodies we didn't like or who were different. Just serve your fellow man (or women, including those who have yet to make up their minds) and love them as you love yourself.

Somewhere between then and now things changed. Too much of the Church now seems about exclusion, conformity, legality, following the rules, coloring inside the lines, fear, uncertainty, dread.

I was raised and educated in a religious atmosphere that told me to go out into the world and act fearlessly in pursuit of a better way. And that better way, included a set of rules
Like I said, "Bad Catechesis". Because as far as I can tell, The Church doesn't teach this anymore. And that's REALLY why everyone I know seems to have left.

Cosmic Charlie said:

See, every once in a while Fide goes deep on me and then I start thinking.

The vast majority of Catholic I grew up with dropped out somewhere along the way. Mostly it was sex scandals, control of money at the parish level and, in my Archdiocese anyway, gay marriage. (O, the fight we had).

But really, I think, it had to do with how we were all trained as Catholics when we were in our formative years (10 to 20). When I was in high school, post V2, I was taught some stuff they don't seem to stress anymore: service to others, an attitude of faithful tolerance, the ability to understand the documentation of the Church's rich and long theology (I was educated by Benediction's after all), living a life worthy of being a Christian example.

"Be like the nice guy in the pictures and go get me a cup of coffee" - That quote means something to me in my faith formation, sorry I just thought I'd throw it in.

Work. Pray.

NOW - on this forum, 54 years later, they call this "Bad Catechesis".

Okay.

Where was it bad ?

The V2 church used to teach that Christ gave us, his followers, our marching orders at the Sermon on the Mount, and it didn't include making life difficult for anybody, especially those anybodies we didn't like or who were different. Just serve your fellow man (or women, including those who have yet to make up their minds) and love them as you love yourself.

Somewhere between then and now things changed. Too much of the Church now seems about exclusion, conformity, legality, following the rules, coloring inside the lines, fear, uncertainty, dread.

I was raised and educated in a religious atmosphere that told me to go out into the world and act fearlessly in pursuit of a better way. And that better way, included a set of rules

1. I wasn't any better than anyone else
2. Everyone is important in the eyes of God
3. You don't turn your back on your friends
4. You don't turn your back on your family
5. You don't turn your back on your neighbors
6. Everyone's your neighbor.

Like I said, "Bad Catechesis". Because as far as I can tell, The Church doesn't teach this anymore. And that's REALLY why everyone I know seems to have left.

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A rhetorical question is: Which is better, growing membership in the "Church of Part-Time Catholics", or members in the Body of Christ growing in the Life of Christ? I was a former Catholic, until I learned from the outside what I had missed on the inside. Now, it is horrifying to me that I am seeing the Church turning literally inside-out! Bishop Strickland described it well, in his essay, Supernatural Truth.

Jesus clarifies it all very well in Holy Scripture, if we will listen to Him. For one thing:

Jn 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

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And we, for our part, were created - out of nothing - to find in the One Who IS, life in His Life. Catechesis must lead us to become seekers of what is True - eternally, True.

James 5

My brothers and sisters,
if anyone among you should stray from the truth
and someone bring him back,
he should know that whoever brings back a sinner
from the error of his way will save his soul from death
and will cover a multitude of sins.

Romans 8

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit
that we are children of God,
and if children, then heirs,
heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ,
if only we suffer with him
so that we may also be glorified with him.


Mt 28:16-20
The eleven disciples went to Galilee,
to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them.
When they all saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
Then Jesus approached and said to them,
"All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

~~~~~~~~~~~

To suffer is to stand faithful in face of the world who wants to reteach what compassion means.
And what Justice means.

We are to remain faithful to what His men were commanded to teach.

Pray the Litany of the souls of purgatory.
Each sin is prayed over for the Church sufferings many sins.
No doubt we share many.
Very sobering.
Even more sobering I found out those who do not pray for souls will not receive comfort from prayers when in purgatory.

Souls can teach us...