Pope Francis Rebellion Grows as 90 Catholic Figures Sign Scathing Letter

Holy Moses....did anyone read the responses/comments to that Newsweek article?

The level of hatred, contempt, ridicule, and even snide dismissal they have towards us is unbelievable.

Wolseley said:

Holy Moses....did anyone read the responses/comments to that Newsweek article?

The level of hatred, contempt, ridicule, and even snide dismissal they have towards us is unbelievable.

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Christianity is the boogeyman and the source of all the ills of the world according to some people.

As one commentator said: Religion is grooming.

Chrystal-J said:

Pope Francis rebellion grows as 90 Catholic figures sign scathing letter

Conservative Catholics have organized an open letter against Pope Francis.

www.newsweek.com

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It's still open for priests and other notables, not the likes of mere you and me, to add their signatures until February 17th. So it could be well over 90 signatures before it's all over. So expect more names.

This isn't addressed to the pope, but to bishops and cardinals, who might then in turn make it even harder for pope Francis. The pope can Stricklandize bishops and Burke the cardinals but in the end he's got nothing if he lets it go to open revolt. Kind of his choice. Fix FS or push even more people, the more loyal sort, into schism. He already has a de facto schism in Germany where liberals have told him to take a hike, and a liturgical schism in India, and he seems willing to alienate even more people who accepted Catholic teaching up to a few short months ago.

I don't want to go, but I have never been a cafeteria Catholic. Or one who thought in Orwellian ways where yesterday's truths could be double-un-plus untruths today.

Wolseley said:

Holy Moses....did anyone read the responses/comments to that Newsweek article?

The level of hatred, contempt, ridicule, and even snide dismissal they have towards us is unbelievable.

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Those are some pretty toxic comments.

chevyontheriver said:

Those are some pretty toxic comments.

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You said it.

RileyG said:

Anti-Catholic bigotry is alive and well in the USA and world.

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I grew up in a very Catholic area and live in one now. I never had a clue that there are so many people who are anti-Catholic.

FaithT said:

I grew up a very Catholic area and live in one now. I never had a clue that there are so many people who are anti-Catholic.

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It's not like the whole world is out to get you but some days it seems that way.

The current debate fails, because it views homosexuality as an immutable orientation and God is not just to condemn those “born that way”. It is said that in the last days we will have strong delusion that if it were possible would deceive the very elect. I believe this qualifies as that delusion.

The truth is that personal tastes are personal tastes and they developed with repeated use, and are solidified if we follow the pleasure principle aka “if it feels good do it”, but we have not learned Christ this way, or at least we should not have.
In the Gospel, we are called to deny ourselves and take up our cross, mortify our flesh, and fly fornication(fly being a medieval usage of the word that strongly emphasized flee, see Douay Rheims) why are we told to do that?

Because sexual intercourse and sexual arousal are powerful drugs that distort our perceptions and get us to call the evil good if used improperly. How many have fallen for the quick pleasure of masturbation and porn, then found difficulties when attempting natural intercourse? pleasure areas of the brain have been blunted by sin, so that we desire the evil rather than the good. Doesn’t happen to everyone and can be overcome if we repent.

Ever hear that masturbation will make you go blind? Hyperbole when it come to physical sight, but very true when it blunts the awareness of sin after repeated indulgence. The same happens with homosexuality. A homosexual claims that their compulsion for sodomy is not controllable and they must be born that way, but that is a lie, as homosexual men, wishing to hide their orientation are known to marry and have children.
They do that by choice of the will, which is what we are all called to do. They receive no merit for that choice as it is not of a chaste motive, but it is a choice nonetheless.

Too many times in this society are men made to feel inadequate if they are not sexually attractive or indulging in frequent intercourse. That is sick and a distortion of the truth. Even heterosexuals are told that their urges are not controllable and need an outlet, which is where we get contraception and we are told that we are irresponsible if we do not use it. What a bunch of bunk and a lie from hell.

He who commits fornication or any natural sexual activity including homosexuality or masturbation or contraception sins against his own body. He had placed pleasure over chastity

We are experiencing homosexuality in the culture and in the Church because we no longer believe that unchastity is sinful. It is estimated that 80-90% of Catholics practice contraception. Is it any wonder that there is a rise in homosexuality? God told you that if you leave the natural use of the woman He was going to abandon you. Did you think He was joking? The natural use of the woman is as wife and mother, not the contraceptive sex kitten.

Yes Francis needs to repeal FS, but also proper Catholic sex education needs to include chastity and the warnings against unchastity. Natural family planning is not the answer. Did you know that once the marriage takes place, it is mortally sinful to refuse a reasonable request for the marital act? That is known as the marital debt. At the altar it is offered as a gift, after marriage it is an obligation to your spouse to fulfill the marital debt

We need to self examine our conscience repent fast and pray that God leads us back to the truth, rather than this distorted reality in which we find ourselves. We have problems like FS because the salt has lost its savor, time to repent in dust and ashes, not just blame it all on Francis

boughtwithaprice said:

We are experiencing homosexuality in the culture and in the Church because we no longer believe that unchastity is sinful. It is estimated that 80-90% of Catholics practice contraception. Is it any wonder that there is a rise in homosexuality?

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The commonality is in the sterility of what they do. A contraceptive mentality is one that has no place for a man's potency and a woman's fertility. It prepared us for sterile sex without reproduction, and homosexual activity is the epitome of sterility. A contracepting heterosexual really has no basis for criticizing homosexual activity because what they do is essentially similar.

Pope Paul VI explained the likely consequences of contraception in Humanae Vitae back in 1968. And it all happened.

Chrystal-J said:

I agree that people need to follow the Church's teaching, but Pope Francis is warping that teaching. He's the leader of the Church and is supposed to be in the world, but not of the world. I don't know what his motives are, but he's rationalizing sin. He's leading some people astray. I pray that the pope comes to his spiritual senses and reverses FS.

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I agree that he is confusing, and that is causing scandal in the Church, but how do we handle this scandal? Schism or attacking God’s anointed are not viable options for members of the body of Christ. As Peter said, Lord where else shall we go, you have the words of eternal life?

First thing we need to do is determine what is really said, and not what the media or others say that Francis says.
Ok, we have the document. Does it really bless sodomy or attempt to do so? Francis says no, what he was attempting to do was bless people, not the act of sodomy. The document is unclear and some have said that they can now bless gay unions that are implicitly sexual. If they bless a union in that fashion without pastoral counsel on the dangers of sodomy, the blessing should be nullified, much like an indulgence is ineffective if we cannot remove attachment to sin.

But that interpretation is mine, and Francis should clarify quickly and not allow rogue prelates to start saying that the Catholic Church is now blessing sodomite relationships.

From what I can see, Francis has a pastoral heart and does not want to see souls marginalized simply or treated like outcasts, which plays into the demons hands and has a person with anxiety about interaction with the opposite sex, presented with sodomy as the only alternative.

The Bible speaks of Eunuchs, and others that had deep affection for someone of the same sex, yet that affection was chaste. The thought of sodomy never enters their minds.

Homosexuals are frequently hurting and alone, and they view sodomy as the only means of feeling love. What Francis seems to want to do is tell them that the Church cares for them and they should not fear to approach the Lord.

He could do it in a more clear explicit way, but that is the sense I am getting from him. What he needs to do is discipline those that misinterpret or abuse what he is saying

If you want further insights as to what is happening and possible solutions, you must read
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth by
Jeffrey Satinover MD
You would better be able to understand the sin that is homosexuality its cause and solutions

Since this is a spiritual battle, you will not find an organic cause that applies to all situations, Satan and his minions exploit organic situations but are capable of making willing souls that appear normal have pleasure from homosexuality itself. That is just how it is.

The spiritual battle is an inner battle. Pray, fast, give alms. Spend time in adoration and ask God what He would have you do, and wait for a response. Study the catechism and make sure your own beliefs regarding sexuality are in line with Church teaching. If not, then repent and ask God for the strength to accept the truth
Pray the Rosary, ask St Joseph for intercession.
Pray a devotion to our lady of sorrows for more clear direction in yourself.

Now is not the time to blame Francis for everything, although I wish we had a better teacher at this point, he is our Pope. Do not blame or threaten to run away, seek God, make frequent use of the sacraments, which you will not get anywhere else but the Catholic Church


Peace be with you

The contraception thing is interesting. In our town we have a Catholic Church, and two Baptist churches.

Catholics all have one, two - maybe three kids per family on a big one.

The Baptists have a lot of families with four to six kids or up to 12!

And homosexuality is very rare.

I don't think it's a contraception thing.

Markie Boy said:

The contraception thing is interesting. In our town we have a Catholic Church, and two Baptist churches.

Catholics all have one, two - maybe three kids per family on a big one.

The Baptists have a lot of families with four to six kids or up to 12!

And homosexuality is very rare.

I don't think it's a contraception thing.

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You left the Catholic Church didn’t you? Returned to your Baptist roots? I fail to understand why you keep coming back to do your comparison thing. As I said previously, you cannot seem to help yourself when it comes to anything Catholic. By the way, my family are Baptist. Not sure what branch you are in but 6 to 12 offspring was not the norm from our experience.

Markie Boy said:

The contraception thing is interesting. In our town we have a Catholic Church, and two Baptist churches.

Catholics all have one, two - maybe three kids per family on a big one.

The Baptists have a lot of families with four to six kids or up to 12!

And homosexuality is very rare.

I don't think it's a contraception thing.

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Contraception is intrinsically evil, but it is not the only thing. Those Catholics with only 2 or three kids, do you really think they are not practicing contraception? That’s against Church teaching
You do understand spiritual battle? In small populations you can see exceptions because Satan does not fight the same way all the time. If he did we could easily see his work and avoid it. If the Catholics are practicing contraception then they are already in mortal sin and if taking communion without confessing the evil, then they are committing sacrilege and heaping condemnation on themselves. Satan does not need to send homosexuality to them as they will already join him in his kingdom if they die in mortal sin.
The Baptists in your community appear to have large families as Catholics did of old, they do fine in that respect but they don’t have the flesh and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist, so they have no life in them. Once again, Satan’s work is done and sending homosexuality into that community would undermine his kingdom by calling attention to it. Contraception is the tool, but not the only means of Satan’s attack. He wants your soul. He doesn’t care about sex.
When you look at the trend in humanity as a whole over the last 100 years since the Lambeth conference changing Christian teaching on the evils of contraception, or even the last sixty years when the pill became available, we see the increase in sins of the flesh and the desecration of the marital act directly against the commands of God and as explained in Romans 1.

IMHO and I am not an expert, that some have asked him to make it clear that individuals be blessed.
Whether or not their intent, it became publicized as gay unions vs individuals...

The Bishop who signed this, removed from working his duties, reminds me of Luther in the days of internet.
Still leading people to disobey the Pope publicly.

I did not read unions may be blessed.
Individuals, yes.
Because his belief is if a person wants blessed, despite their sins, then their heart is seeking. A blessing could transform them.
Change them....

Again, IMHO, and it is just my opinion, if I were a clergy member I would be reiterating the Pope wants individuals blessed.
Even those in unions, because the change of heart that can happen.

There are some folks who know what they want to say, but they just do not say it well.
I'm going to give the Pope the benefit of the doubt.
Pray for him and hope the understanding is better clarified.

The comments were terrible on that page. And I am not joining just to explain to the guy [bob] that it's backwards and impossible to NOT believe a Creator exists.
SMH

WarriorAngel said:

IMHO and I am not an expert, that some have asked him to make it clear that individuals be blessed.
Whether or not their intent, it became publicized as gay unions vs individuals...

The Bishop who signed this, removed from working his duties, reminds me of Luther in the days of internet.
Still leading people to disobey the Pope publicly.

I did not read unions may be blessed.
Individuals, yes.
Because his belief is if a person wants blessed, despite their sins, then their heart is seeking. A blessing could transform them.
Change them....

Again, IMHO, and it is just my opinion, if I were a clergy member I would be reiterating the Pope wants individuals blessed.
Even those in unions, because the change of heart that can happen.

There are some folks who know what they want to say, but they just do not say it well.
I'm going to give the Pope the benefit of the doubt.
Pray for him and hope the understanding is better clarified.

The comments were terrible on that page. And I am not joining just to explain to the guy [bob] that it's backwards and impossible to NOT believe a Creator exists.
SMH

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And yet the document says such couples may be blessed. Words do matter. If they had not used the word ‘couples’ this would have been no big deal. But they snuck that in and it’s there.