I mentioned this on this forum recently: Sexuality and the church.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

Read this article.

Some time ago, I believe I made some comments on a post or more from a thread by @Michie about how sexuality is going to be the next great split in the church.

It seems I am not alone in this thinking as I just came across this article.

Christian churches are facing a choice: the cross of Christ or the rainbow flag? - LifeSite

The choice before churches is clear. In the next few years, we will see those clinging to orthodoxy shrink dramatically – and there will be cultural consequences for this.

www.lifesitenews.com

tampasteve · Nov 22, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
is going to be the next great split in the church.

I mean, it already has been for a while. The largest Protestant denominations in the USA have been wrestling with it for quite some time, causing major splits in the Lutheran (ELCA), Episcopal (Anglican), and Methodist (UMC) denominations. The UMC is currently shedding thousands of churches due to this issue, primarily.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

tampasteve said:
I mean, it already has been for a while. The largest Protestant denominations in the USA have been wrestling with it for quite some time, causing major splits in the Lutheran (ELCA), Episcopal (Anglican), and Methodist (UMC) denominations. The UMC is currently shedding thousands of churches due to this issue, primarily.

Yes, I agree with that. But I think there is going to be a major fallout on this single issue. The type that vilifies the other side. Sadly, I think the vitriol is going to be high on both sides even though the correct side that is not affirming is on the side of Truth. The problem I see is that so often those who speak about Truth are those who are hard with their words and do not understand and loving. It's going to be a hugely complicated and disorganized mess and the real Christians who neither accept celebrating homosexuality or being uncharitable are going to be the very few left in some time after things play out for a few years.

tampasteve · Nov 22, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Yes, I agree with that. But I think there is going to be a major fallout on this single issue. The type that vilifies the other side. Sadly, I think the vitriol is going to be high on both sides even though the correct side that is not affirming is on the side of Truth.

That is true, it is pretty much what those denominations have experienced.

Jesse Dornfeld said:
The problem I see is that so often those who speak about Truth are those who are hard with their words and do not understand and loving.

Isn't that the truth. I a lot more could be done with more kindness.

Jesse Dornfeld said:
It's going to be a hugely complicated and disorganized mess and the real Christians who neither accept celebrating homosexuality or being uncharitable are going to be the very few left in some time after things play out for a few years.

It's hard to say, most of the denominations that have become affirming are shrinking rapidly, but then most denominations are shrinking, just not as rapidly.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

tampasteve said:
It's hard to say, most of the denominations that have become affirming are shrinking rapidly, but then most denominations are shrinking, just not as rapidly.

Give it 10 years and I think you an I will be in the extreme minority unless the revival continues and our culture gets turned around.

Danny&Annie&theChristmas · Nov 22, 2023

I think, first of all, homosexuals should be viewed as victims. Overwhelmingly, homosexuals are victims of childhood sexual assault. Pedo-institutions are harvesting kids into sexual perversion by the boatload with little end in sight. The movie The Sound of Freedom exposed America as a pedo-nation as it is the largest consumer of child sex. With this many victims whose sexual identity has been corrupted into a new normal, the pedo-institutions have little choice except to force the acceptance of homosexuality upon the rest of the nation. If these mass victims were to ever renounce their "norm" and hold their perpetrators accountable, major institutions/denominations would cease to exist. These institutions push the "born that way" narrative in a vain effort to avoid accountability. If they can succeed in shoving their narrative down the throats of the masses, then they not only remain unaccountable, but can continue harvesting innocent children into attempted spiritual murder. The best thing Christians can do is to expose their twisted agenda and not stray from the Word. Homosexual sin is a product of childhood sexual assault and while we are not responsible for what happened to us as children we are responsible for how we respond to that abuse as adults. Homosexuals are still to repent just like anyone else dealing with their respective sins.

Danny&Annie&theChristmas · Nov 22, 2023

Danny&Annie&theChristmas said:
I think, first of all, homosexuals should be viewed as victims. Overwhelmingly, homosexuals are victims of childhood sexual assault. Pedo-institutions are harvesting kids into sexual perversion by the boatload with little end in sight. The movie The Sound of Freedom exposed America as a pedo-nation as it is the largest consumer of child sex. With this many victims whose sexual identity has been corrupted into a new normal, the pedo-institutions have little choice except to force the acceptance of homosexuality upon the rest of the nation. If these mass victims were to ever renounce their "norm" and hold their perpetrators accountable, major institutions/denominations would cease to exist. These institutions push the "born that way" narrative in a vain effort to avoid accountability. If they can succeed in shoving their narrative down the throats of the masses, then they not only remain unaccountable, but can continue harvesting innocent children into attempted spiritual murder. The best thing Christians can do is to expose their twisted agenda and not stray from the Word. Homosexual sin is a product of childhood sexual assault and while we are not responsible for what happened to us as children we are responsible for how we respond to that abuse as adults. Homosexuals are still to repent just like anyone else dealing with their respective sins.

The Church seems more and more to be afraid of it's own shadow regarding this subject.

Ivan Hlavanda · Nov 22, 2023

The 7 churches in the book of revelation represent the Church throughout the age. The Lord was not kind to those churches that made compromises and tolarated sin.

In regards to marriage, the Lord is the author of marriage, therefore we have no right to redifine what marriage is, and that is one male and one female.

Ivan Hlavanda · Nov 22, 2023

I think the problem is that the western church has it in large parts too easy and we become complacement. Maybe we are afraid of persecution, and imprisoment instead of being faithful to the Word of God, we remain quiet.

Most faithful believers were always the ones most persecuted.

Danny&Annie&theChristmas · Nov 22, 2023

Ivan Hlavanda said:
I think the problem is that the western church has it in large parts too easy and we become complacement. Maybe we are afraid of persecution, and imprisoment instead of being faithful to the Word of God, we remain quiet.

Most faithful believers were always the ones most persecuted.

We simply must be bold and persevere in the faith.

chevyontheriver · Nov 22, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Read this article.

Some time ago, I believe I made some comments on a post or more from a thread by @Michie about how sexuality is going to be the next great split in the church.

It seems I am not alone in this thinking as I just came across this article.

Christian churches are facing a choice: the cross of Christ or the rainbow flag? - LifeSite

The choice before churches is clear. In the next few years, we will see those clinging to orthodoxy shrink dramatically – and there will be cultural consequences for this.

www.lifesitenews.com

It's a happening thing sadly. Liberal Protestants for sure, but now Catholics and Evangelicals. It's going to sort us radically. Pope Benedict had a prophecy that we would end up a much smaller Church, which is happening before our eyes.

God grant us perseverance in the faith.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

chevyontheriver said:
It's a happening thing sadly. Liberal Protestants for sure, but now Catholics and Evangelicals. It's going to sort us radically. Pope Benedict had a prophecy that we would end up a much smaller Church, which is happening before our eyes.

God grant us perseverance in the faith.

That's the scariest part to me is that it seems to be a pretty broad phenomenon across lots of denominations.

chevyontheriver · Nov 22, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
That's the scariest part to me is that it seems to be a pretty broad phenomenon across lots of denominations.

I thought the Evangelicals would be made of sterner stuff. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.

I thought the Catholics would be made of sterner stuff. But the last ten years seem to have been mostly in reverse. I miss the good old days of John Paul and Benedict. Something big and bad is brewing for Catholics. The folks in the pews are just beginning to figure out that it's a mess.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

chevyontheriver said:
I thought the Evangelicals would be made of sterner stuff. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.

I thought the Catholics would be made of sterner stuff. But the last ten years seem to have been mostly in reverse. I miss the good old days of John Paul and Benedict. Something big and bad is brewing for Catholics. The folks in the pews are just beginning to figure out that it's a mess.

Sorry to hear that.

Niels · Nov 22, 2023

This is a bigger issue than it needs to be. We're giving it too much attention in my opinion.

Danny&Annie&theChristmas said:
The Church seems more and more to be afraid of it's own shadow regarding this subject.

There can be fine line between taking a stand and making a mountain out of a mole hill. The way I see it, this isn't something that I personally deal with so I don't devote much mental energy to it. I choose to leave this issue between them and God. Not because I do or don't condone LGBTQ+. I simply have my own struggles and goals. Things that are part of my life are given a higher priority than hot-button issues like this. We're all human and until we're with the Lord in the next life we'll have struggles. In the meantime, He offers forgiveness and guidance if we ask.

I see it as a bit like a red herring. It distracts from things that are important in the real everyday sense of our lives. Most of us aren't LGBTQ+. There are more immmediate things for us to focus on if we're committed to growing in our relationship with God.

All Becomes New · Nov 22, 2023

Miles said:
Things that are part of my life are given a higher priority than external hot-button issues like this.

Some people do have to deal with these issues, unfortunately.

Let's say a homosexual starts coming to your church. No big deal. People can come to your church if they want. Now let's suppose that they start trying to volunteer for things. Something small like helping out with coffee or something. No big deal. Now let's imagine that they say they want to start teaching Sunday school for the kids. Still not a big deal?

Do you see what I am talking about? It could happen to any church.

Danny&Annie&theChristmas · Nov 22, 2023

When I suffered the massive abuse I encountered as a child I wondered where all the Christians were hiding. This " not my problem" mentality leaves countless kids in peril. I can't help but shake my head in disbelief at the mind boggling apathy.

Niels · Nov 22, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Some people do have to deal with these issues, unfortunately.

Let's say a homosexual starts coming to your church. No big deal. People can come to your church if they want. Now let's suppose that they start trying to volunteer for things. Something small like helping out with coffee or something. No big deal. Now let's imagine that they say they want to start teaching Sunday school for the kids. Still not a big deal?

Do you see what I am talking about? It could happen to any church.

We need to exercise discernment when it comes to who teaches Sunday school. Leading by example is a good place to start. I'm not suggesting that nobody deals with this stuff, but what are we sacrificing by giving this so much attention?

In the meantime, there are other things for us to focus on. Starting with the Gospel and our own relationship with God. A congregation that is committed to personal growth in the faith will be better equipped to deal with such issues when they arise. Including better able to demonstrate wisdom and grace while doing so.

If it keeps coming back to LGBTQ+ issues then our priorities are wrong. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

All Becomes New · Nov 23, 2023

Miles said:
We need to exercise discernment when it comes to who teaches Sunday school. Leading by example is a good place to start. I'm not suggesting that nobody deals with this stuff, but what are we sacrificing by giving this so much attention?

In the meantime, there are other things for us to focus on. Starting with the Gospel and our own relationship with God. A congregation that is committed to personal growth in the faith will be better equipped to deal with such issues when they arise. Including better able to demonstrate wisdom and grace while doing so.

If it keeps coming back to LGBTQ+ issues then our priorities are wrong. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

It's not and should not be an either-or issue. It's a very important issue because it is affecting many churches and lives currently.

chevyontheriver · Nov 23, 2023

Miles said:
If it keeps coming back to LGBTQ+ issues then our priorities are wrong. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Most congregations are having this thrust upon them by the culture and would of themselves not make it a priority at all. My parish prepared for the 'Transgender Day of Rage' with a new door locking system, new video surveillance cameras, active protester training for ushers, active shooter training for ushers, a parking lot patrol, and police also making sweeps of the parking lot. None of this was desired and we would have been happy not to do any of it. But in consultation with the local police we did it. We didn't want the issue. But the vandalism around the country at different churches indicated it was a real problem. It will likely always be so from here on out. Not a problem we were the drivers of.

For that matter the Church didn't change but the society and culture did. Some people will say it's time for the churches to get with societal change. And some churches will go right along. But is that right? Or should the churches look to hold to old truths even when they become unpopular? Is that getting 'our priorities wrong'?

I mentioned this on this forum recently: Sexuality and the church.

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