Conservatives are a failure

American conservative individualism is too often selfish and greedy.

Recognizing the human rights of others is not group think. Providing a work environment where all can flourish encourages creativity.

Truth7t7 said:

I thank God we have a US Supreme Court "Conservative" super majority, it's going to be a solid decade+ of conservative decisions handed down, it's about time, can't wait to see the liberal agenda, built for the past 50 years "Disappear"

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I am not so sure about that. If secular society is rejecting God as opposed to Gods church then even those on the conservative side of politics and not just belief will also profess a secular ideology about how society should be ordered. I don't think we will see a theocracy so this world is not designed to be Gods Will on earth. Its designed to uphold secular ideaologies that may or may not reflect Christian morals.

In fact its more inclined to reflect secular ideas because in order to allow free will you have to allow the chance for people to choose freely and that inevitably will lead to ideologies that oppose Gods Will. That is the nature of fallen humans.

In some ways it all has to just play out as it is. Its beyond our control. But if God is Truth then the Truth will eventually come out. Unfortunately in the meantime some damage will be done. All we can do is keep pointing to Gods Truth. I think the best way to do that is to live by the example of Christ.

So much free stuff crashes the system.
BANKRUPTCY

stevevw said:

I am not so sure about that. If secular society is rejecting God as opposed to Gods church then even those on the conservative side of politics and not just belief will also profess a secular ideology about how society should be ordered. I don't think we will see a theocracy so this world is not designed to be Gods Will on earth. Its designed to uphold secular ideaologies that may or may not reflect Christian morals.

In fact its more inclined to reflect secular ideas because in order to allow free will you have to allow the chance for people to choose freely and that inevitably will lead to ideologies that oppose Gods Will. That is the nature of fallen humans.

In some ways it all has to just play out as it is. Its beyond our control. But if God is Truth then the Truth will eventually come out. Unfortunately in the meantime some damage will be done. All we can do is keep pointing to Gods Truth. I think the best way to do that is to live by the example of Christ.

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Fact is

A conservative US Supreme Court 6/3 in the majority, continue to watch the conservative rulings for the next 12 years, the best is yet to come

Liberal agenda on the exit, stage "Right"!

Truth7t7 said:

Fact is

A conservative US Supreme Court 6/3 in the majority, continue to watch the conservative rulings for the next 12 years, the best is yet to come

Liberal agenda on the exit, stage "Right"!

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Every successive Supreme Court decision mobilizes progressives. It's one reason why Democrats did much better than expected in 2022.

So the Courts can keep on keepin' on, but as the Congress and legislatures get bluer and bluer, they will just pass laws overriding their decisions until they lost their voices.

They are not doing themselves any favors by declaring there is no need for them to have a strong ethics policy while their benefactors' largesse, especially to Thomas, shocks and horrifies us.

They have betrayed the public's trust and confidence, and have no one to blame but themselves for scoring somewhere below used car salesmen ethically.

They took advantage of good natured tolerance and now they're taking us for a ride

stevevw said:

I don't think we have to wait that long. Its about exposing the lies and sticking to the truth and reality. Not going along and standing up to it. Like how Budlight customers sent a strong message to big corps. Like parents who make a stand in parent teacher meetings, like the laws being implemented to stop this being taught in kids schools and audits of materials to weed out the inappropriate materials being taught.

But also through edoing exactly the same thing the Woke is doing by getting on social media to promote the truth and reality, to show the counter narratives of people effected by the ideology. Creating more spaces where people can express the truth without being cancelled. People only take so much and then they start to fight back especially when it comes to kids.

What we are seeing today is the result of a slow march from the 90s. It exploded into mainstream society only about 10 years ago but mostly in the last 5 years through social media especially with Covid where people were stuck at home and their worlde became the internet.

But I think just as rapidly as this ideology came it will quickly be exposed. Most people don't really understand an go along because they hear words like equality, Rights ect and believe its all nobel. But as the reality of the ideology begins to be lived out, in womens sports, at work, in health and law where everyday people are being cancelled and suffering consequences people will soon see the reality. This is beginning to happen now.

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I think there is some truth to that. However I think until we can get a foothold in the educational systems it will always be an uphill battle for us. Depending strictly on legislatures or political movements will always be unreliable.

The educational system needs to be won. That's how the liberals and progressive have gotten their victories.

Think about it. Progressive journalists came from progressive schools. Progressive judges were trained in progressive schools. Progressive teachers trained in progressive schools.

Fantine said:

Every successive Supreme Court decision mobilizes progressives. It's one reason why Democrats did much better than expected in 2022.

So the Courts can keep on keepin' on, but as the Congress and legislatures get bluer and bluer, they will just pass laws overriding their decisions until they lost their voices.

They are not doing themselves any favors by declaring there is no need for them to have a strong ethics policy while their benefactors' largesse, especially to Thomas, shocks and horrifies us.

They have betrayed the public's trust and confidence, and have no one to blame but themselves for scoring somewhere below used car salesmen ethically.

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The House is a republican majority, almost The same in the Senate by one vote

It's a right sided puzzle for the next 12 years, deal with it the conservative majority in the US Supreme Court is a big shoe is on the other foot, bout time watch and weep as conservatives have done for the past 40 years under a liberal Supreme Court rule

stevevw said:

I am not so sure about that. If secular society is rejecting God as opposed to Gods church then even those on the conservative side of politics and not just belief will also profess a secular ideology about how society should be ordered. I don't think we will see a theocracy so this world is not designed to be Gods Will on earth. Its designed to uphold secular ideaologies that may or may not reflect Christian morals.

In fact its more inclined to reflect secular ideas because in order to allow free will you have to allow the chance for people to choose freely and that inevitably will lead to ideologies that oppose Gods Will. That is the nature of fallen humans.

In some ways it all has to just play out as it is. Its beyond our control. But if God is Truth then the Truth will eventually come out. Unfortunately in the meantime some damage will be done. All we can do is keep pointing to Gods Truth. I think the best way to do that is to live by the example of Christ.

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This is the second thread today that you've posted the same "secular panic" content into a thread. (The other was on the nature and alternatives to democracy.) The common theme (as I can see it) is a failure to understand what "secular society" means. It is not the fraction of people without religion, it is the portion of society that does not operate on religious principles. The local grocery is secular. Food is not sold on religious principles. Likewise with local government, the principles on which it operates are not religious. Are there religious principles that tell you when roads need to be repaved, or how much of the budget to spend on playgrounds for children? No? I didn't think so. Local government is inherently secular in nature. There is no reason for it to be religiously aligned to function.

Just because those institutions are secular (not religious) does not mean that those who lead them, or work for them, or interact with them need to be non-religious. The secular nature of governments, retail stores, and so many more are not tied to individual persons being religious or not.

Back to the topic...l yes conservatives are a failure despite their recent surge of "power".

Fantine said:

Every successive Supreme Court decision mobilizes progressives. It's one reason why Democrats did much better than expected in 2022.

So the Courts can keep on keepin' on, but as the Congress and legislatures get bluer and bluer, they will just pass laws overriding their decisions until they lost their voices.

They are not doing themselves any favors by declaring there is no need for them to have a strong ethics policy while their benefactors' largesse, especially to Thomas, shocks and horrifies us.

They have betrayed the public's trust and confidence, and have no one to blame but themselves for scoring somewhere below used car salesmen ethically.

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The liberal agenda is heading out the door, are you unaware of the US Supreme Courts decisions, it's no going to stop, 2-3 years and America will be back on track

rjs330 said:

I think there is some truth to that. However I think until we can get a foothold in the educational systems it will always be an uphill battle for us. Depending strictly on legislatures or political movements will always be unreliable.

The educational system needs to be won. That's how the liberals and progressive have gotten their victories.

Think about it. Progressive journalists came from progressive schools. Progressive judges were trained in progressive schools. Progressive teachers trained in progressive schools.

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Yes this was an idea stemming back to Marxist and Critical theorist post revolutions. Activism went from the streets to the class room. In slowly undermining and reconstructing the institutions the revolution happen slowly (Long march through the institutions) but nonetheless probably achieved its goals for greater than any protests could.

But we also have to remember that the Conservative and traditionalist has also managed a slow and long march through the institutions. Far longer than any change in the last 50 years or so. That must count for something and cannot be dismissed so easily. Its more or less survived and suceeded already and therefore proven itself to have some substance to it.

I think the reason being is that the truths we have discovered over such a long time and which have lasted did so for good reason. We had already tried the alternatives including similar forms of what we see with ideologies today. We have been through this before and have come back to the tried and tested ideas about how we should order ourselves and society. So you could say its in our DNA.

But you are right in that it may take time as its about education or re-education about what the ideology actually represents and as ideology is based on belief sometimes it takes time before people see the unreality of their belief. So its important to refer to the facts about what the ideology actually represents, its wider agenda and motivation.

I know that usually when an ideologue is probed regardless of the issue at hand it always seems to come back to some form of Marxism and the tranforming into some Utopian DEI society. Then when you probe how this is actually applied they usually have little realistic or practical solutions. Especially economically. Thus exposing the unreality of the thinking.

Educated people are critical thinkers.
While they are likely to find some wisdom and truth in a Bible they are unlikely to have literal views on creation, the flood, etc.
There is enough information readily available that the restrictive ideas of fundamentalist schools will be challenged and met with what I believe is far superior theories and concepts--economically, politically, socially.
All it takes to bring abortion back is a law. Even Republucan lawmakers in Ohio, Kansas, and elsewhere are fearful of voters' wrath, which will grow as more young people come of age.
They care about climate. An end to mass shootings. Fair wages. Social justice.
They accept diversity and don't look at discriminating against gays, blacks, and immigrants as positive.
Conservatives are on borrowed time, trying to extend it through gerrymandering, voter suppression and dishonest practices.

Hans Blaster said:

This is the second thread today that you've posted the same "secular panic" content into a thread. (The other was on the nature and alternatives to democracy.) The common theme (as I can see it) is a failure to understand what "secular society" means. It is not the fraction of people without religion, it is the portion of society that does not operate on religious principles. The local grocery is secular. Food is not sold on religious principles.

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So when there was food shortages and people were fighting in shops for food why was that. if food becomes too expensive for some isn't that a moral issue. So isn't the government policies that make food expensive a moral issue.

Hans Blaster said:

Likewise with local government, the principles on which it operates are not religious. Are there religious principles that tell you when roads need to be repaved, or how much of the budget to spend on playgrounds for children? No? I didn't think so. Local government is inherently secular in nature. There is no reason for it to be religiously aligned to function.

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So not spending money on roads which may cause accidents or where play grounds are in poor repair or where a government provides no playgrounds are these not ethical issues.

Hans Blaster said:

Just because those institutions are secular (not religious) does not mean that those who lead them, or work for them, or interact with them need to be non-religious. The secular nature of governments, retail stores, and so many more are not tied to individual persons being religious or not.

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No but they are tied to ethics. How a government creates or doesn't create a better society. isn't that what governments do. They take our money and try to create a society that is relatively happy, safe, provided for and ultimately makes them better, helps them thrive. If not then governments are telling us lies because all their language speaks of promises to make things better, better education, roads, health and law. Stop the crime, help us feel safe.

These are all related to ethics. Otherwise if they were not we would not care that health was provided, every person for themselves. Which sort of happens now. But when it does people protest and condfemn governments for their lack of care, and providing people with basic rights.

Hans Blaster said:

Back to the topic...l yes conservatives are a failure despite their recent surge of "power".

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Why are they a failure. Why is any Party a failure when theres no miorals involved. What does failure mean.

stevevw said:

So when there was food shortages and people were fighting in shops for food why was that. if food becomes too expensive for some isn't that a moral issue. So isn't the government policies that make food expensive a moral issue.

So not spending money on roads which may cause accidents or where play grounds are in poor repair or where a government provides no playgrounds are these not ethical issues.

No but they are tied to ethics. How a government creates or doesn't create a better society. isn't that what governments do. They take our money and try to create a society that is relatively happy, safe, provided for and ultimately makes them better, helps them thrive. If not then governments are telling us lies because all their language speaks of promises to make things better, better education, roads, health and law. Stop the crime, help us feel safe.

These are all related to ethics. Otherwise if they were not we would not care that health was provided, every person for themselves. Which sort of happens now. But when it does people protest and condfemn governments for their lack of care, and providing people with basic rights.

Why are they a failure. Why is any Party a failure when theres no miorals involved. What does failure mean.

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Are you incapable of perceiving *anything* as something other than dogma, philosophy, and morality. There is more to life than those limited things. I'm remembering why I stopped talking with you. Every conversation had to be drawn into its relation to your "worldview" and how it was different than my "worldview". Twaddle.

You want to know why conservatives are a failure. Here it is:

They have become obsessed with their "worldview" to the point where nothing else matters or interferes with how they perceive politics and policy. Facts be come irrelevant to such people and their views become untethered from objective, observable reality. That's why they fail. It's the same reason the Communist states fell -- a fantasy version of important portions of society (in their case economics and human motivations).

Hans Blaster said:

Are you incapable of perceiving *anything* as something other than dogma, philosophy, and morality. There is more to life than those limited things. I'm remembering why I stopped talking with you. Every conversation had to be drawn into its relation to your "worldview" and how it was different than my "worldview". Twaddle.

You want to know why conservatives are a failure. Here it is:

They have become obsessed with their "worldview" to the point where nothing else matters or interferes with how they perceive politics and policy. Facts be come irrelevant to such people and their views become untethered from objective, observable reality. That's why they fail. It's the same reason the Communist states fell -- a fantasy version of important portions of society (in their case economics and human motivations).

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Ok I will try not to relate things back to my worldview. But also noticing that you then linked my worldview to Conservatives in general which then makes my world view a widely accepted one for at least half if not more of the population.

When you were describing how Conservatives are being rejected ie "They have become obsessed with their "worldview to the point where nothing else matters or interferes with how they perceive politics and policly" and "Facts become irrelevant to such people and their views become untethered from objective, observable reality" it sounded like you were describing the Left because that fits to a tee.

So maybe its both sides who have become unmoored from reality. Though I tend to think the Conservatives are more in line with Traditionalist ideas which seem to be closer to reality. At least our lived reality throughout our history. So the question is "who is fooling who and how can we determine who is closer to reality"?

stevevw said:

Ok I will try not to relate things back to my worldview. But also noticing that you then linked my worldview to Conservatives in general which then makes my world view a widely accepted one for at least half if not more of the population.

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I noted that the problem with your posts and the problem with conservatives were similar in separate paragraphs. If you feel linked then, oh well. You, conservatives, and others have this issue. Marxists are convinced everything problem is caused by capitalists. Radical feminsts often fall into the trap of blaming all problems on men and patriarchy. It is definitely a major problem modern "conservatives" have. Whether you is one or not was not an assessment I was making. [Note: I even mentioned how the resulting disconnection from facts was a major downfall of the Communist regimes.]

stevevw said:

When you were describing how Conservatives are being rejected ie "They have become obsessed with their "worldview to the point where nothing else matters or interferes with how they perceive politics and policly" and "Facts become irrelevant to such people and their views become untethered from objective, observable reality" it sounded like you were describing the Left because that fits to a tee.

So maybe its both sides who have become unmoored from reality. Though I tend to think the Conservatives are more in line with Traditionalist ideas which seem to be closer to reality. At least our lived reality throughout our history. So the question is "who is fooling who and how can we determine who is closer to reality"?

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A more pressing problem with your posts is a tendency to ramble. I often stop reading before you are done. For example I only half read the above section.

Hans Blaster said:

I noted that the problem with your posts and the problem with conservatives were similar in separate paragraphs. If you feel linked then, oh well. You, conservatives, and others have this issue. Marxists are convinced everything problem is caused by capitalists. Radical feminsts often fall into the trap of blaming all problems on men and patriarchy. It is definitely a major problem modern "conservatives" have. Whether you is one or not was not an assessment I was making. [Note: I even mentioned how the resulting disconnection from facts was a major downfall of the Communist regimes.]

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Ok no I wasn't complaining that you lumped me with Conservatives but that what you were describing about me would have to be applied to at least half or more of the population. If as you say we can throw in Marxism, feminism and all the other 'isms' as well as my claim that the Left pretty well fits your description then we end up with a situation where everyone is delusion.

Ironically I think the Conservatives are the least irrational because they are closer to the traditionalist view of rationality and objective reality. They are more likely to want to argue and be open to debate on finding the facts and truth. That is why many are de-platformed and cancelled.

Hans Blaster said:

A more pressing problem with your posts is a tendency to ramble. I often stop reading before you are done. For example I only half read the above section.

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Ok fair enough. I don't consider it rambling but well thought out reasoning. That reasoning being important to back the points I am making. Nothing worse than making claims without any explanation or rational. Especially 1 sentence ones which more assertion than rational.

I probably do go overboard a bit I think but that has been my nature. I think partly because I have this problem about expressing things concisely as I think I have missed something or am fending off possible arguements I that I think may be made in response. Nevertheless I will keep your observation in mind.

But a cavet, if you only read half the reply then how can you respond accurately with half the information.

stevevw said:

But a cavet, if you only read half the reply then how can you respond accurately with half the information.

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I mark things with "I'm not discussing that" or similar or just don't reply to the post.

Hans Blaster said:

I mark things with "I'm not discussing that" or similar or just don't reply to the post.

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OK fair enough.

VCR-2000 said:

Conservatives have fallen asleep at the wheel for the last decades while the left walked into all the institutions (including the church and military) and now today the left and postmodernism is pervasive everywhere and it seems too far gone, and conservatives and Christians have to tolerate it. Now it's even reaching into many areas that were previously conservative.

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I can easily see where you're coming from on this. I can even agree that many conservtives and Christians have fallen asleep. And I'll admit I was one of those Christians at one time. But much of this stuff has been going on in the shadows of our government. What we see today, with all this extreme radical behavior, was not seen by most Americans back in 2014. By 2015 people began to clearly notice the radical change among liberals who had become unhinged. We never saw this back in the 1990s or after 9/11. Bhy 2003 I definitely noticed some dangerous treads going around which I knew would lead to chaos and civil unrest. But even then I had much to learn and did not see the evil I was voting for when I voted for Obama. But by 2009 I would see my mistake and I definitely repented of it! I wrote apology letters to everyone in my life at the time--which was anyone I happen to know at the time. By 2015, I would find out first hand just how evil and spiritually gone the left would become. This is the time when radical unhinged behavior became very noticable. Today that behavior is part of the norm for the left. Notice we no longer call them liberals. They are not liberals but leftists.

The question that should be asked is what do we do now? Where do we go from here? I think we all made the right decision back in 2016 when we elected Trump for President. We knew he could not be bought as the other Republican politicians were being bought off by Democrats. But Trump had his own money and didn't have any other reason to run for President other than to save this country from becoming so insane and corrupt.

We have now how irresponsible voting habits effect out nation. Our economy is gone. The border is in chaos. Fentanyl murdering millions of Americans. We have Iranian proxies killing our soldiers and we have watched as Biden gives them warning that he is going to bomb, giving the terrorists plenty of time to clear out while taking their hardware with them. The bombs drop, millions of dollars worth of them, and only 5 people get killed or injured in the attack. Iran sees this and are emboldened by it. Nothing productive has happened under Biden. He has been the worst President in American history. And he's running for a 2nd term while trying to imprison Trump. So now we have election interference by our own government who wants to decide for us who will become our next President.

I say we stay on course and vote Trump and for Trump backed-Republicans. Its the only way we can remove the insanity from the country. If that don't work and we lose our country to fradulent voting, and if we are pushed real hard to comply with policies that we refuse to comply with, there is always the option of civil war. This is where the left loses everything. But I don't think they know that. They see themselves as all powerful super-humans. We are up against real fascism and tyranny. We cannot cower to this cancel culture. We need to stand up and cancel the cancel culture. Nothing else will work. We either vote them out or we run them out. That is our option at this point. If I knew of better options I would most definitely take that route. Though due to the extreme fascist behavior of the left we cannot cower away from them. We cannot do nothing or say nothing to please them. They want to completely destroy our way of life, leaving nothing of it remaining. Like locusts who see a field of plenty, they devour the field leaving nothing behind. That is what they want to do with us. So we either stand or fall. I believe our best route is to vote Trump in mass numbers and for Trump backed Republicans. We need to get our voices heard and heard loud and clear. Voting third pary will only get you 4 more years of Biden. We must defeat, destroy, socialism in this country or we are doomed to repeat the worst parts of the 20th century.