Is military service sinful?

tonychanyt · Aug 26, 2023

John the Baptizer thought it was okay, Luke 3:

14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

John didn't tell them to quit their jobs.

My #2 son is in the Canadian military full-time

However, Muhammad Ali refused to join the army. In 1971, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously overturned Ali's earlier conviction for evading the draft, citing his status as a conscientious objector.

Should Christians join the army?

Some should. Some would not. Let the Paraclete in your conscience guide you.

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Its not sin as such, but there is much higher risk of this occupation to lead people into sin than in other occupations.

Violence, protecting bad regimes, needless conflicts or wars just because of few politicians, many times in history brutal violence even against own citizens.

If one chooses it, he must be also always prepared to quit the job if it becomes unchristian. Which may not be easy to do without serious consequences, even death punishment.

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
Its not sin as such, but there is much higher risk of this occupation to lead people into sin than in other occupations.

Violence, protecting bad regimes, needless conflicts or wars just because of few politicians, many times in history brutal violence even against own citizens.

If one chooses it, he must be also always prepared to quit the job if it becomes unchristian. Which may not be easy to do without serious consequences, even death punishment.

The bad thing about war is that the way they train those guys they get the big head after awhile. If they get sent into combat, brutality is almost always there. Sure their Colonel sent them in to take some real estate, but on the way they meet with a few families of civilians. So they'll be like, kill the men and abuse the women and stuff like that.

I'm surprised that Russia hasn't invaded the US yet. It's coming and there will be russian troops here. We probably should start praying now for there to be minimal or even zero brutality by them when they get here.

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
I'm surprised that Russia hasn't invaded the US yet. It's coming and there will be russian troops here. We probably should start praying now for there to be minimal or even zero brutality by them when they get here.

Very unrealistic. USA is large and has about 300 million of citizens. Russia has about 150 million citizens. No chance of occupying so much land and so many people.

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
Very unrealistic. USA is large and has about 300 million of citizens. Russia has about 150 million citizens. No chance of occupying so much land and so many people.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!

Considering what the USA is like these days, I do not think some external enemy will be needed for its degradation to a third world country in a generation or two.

tonychanyt · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
Its not sin as such, but there is much higher risk of this occupation to lead people into sin than in other occupations.

Violence, protecting bad regimes, needless conflicts or wars just because of few politicians, many times in history brutal violence even against own citizens.

If one chooses it, he must be also always prepared to quit the job if it becomes unchristian. Which may not be easy to do without serious consequences, even death punishment.

Great insights! brother

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
Considering what the USA is like these days, I do not think some external enemy will be needed for its degradation to a third world country in a generation or two.

Yeah but the US Government has been poking the bear for quite some time now. It is good to hope for the best, but do plan for the worst. That would probably be the worst yo me is if we had foreign boots on our soil.

Besides, we are the last generation according to scripture.

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
Yeah but the US Government has been poking the bear for quite some time now. It is good to hope for the best, but do plan for the worst. That would probably be the worst yo me is if we had foreign boots on our soil.

Besides, we are the last generation according to scripture.

USA is based upon foreign boots coming in. It just shifts areas those boots are coming from, its more South America, Africa and Asia than Europe, now.

What Scripture says you are the last generation of Americans?

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
USA is elementary based upon foreign boots coming in. It just shifts areas those boots are coming from, its more South America, Africa and Asia than Europe, now.

What Scripture says you are the last generation of Americans?

Yeah our southern border has been flowing for quite some time now. I watched a video that was saying that 90% of them are young men of fightng age. SO our country is already full of the enemy.

It's not just one scripture, it's an entire study. Daniel 9 and others. I don't have my notes in front of me but I'll look for them. What it adds up to to May 14th 1948. The very day that Israel became a nation again. So this is the last generation. Born after May 14th 1948.

Matthew 24: 32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.../KJV

The fig tree has always represented Israel in scripture, so in the parable of the fig tree we can see that whan Israel puts out leaves (that was 1948) then this generation wont pass away until all these things come to pass. I haven't found my notes yet lol, but it's coming back to me.

I also saw a pastor on video give the teaching the same way. Who was that?

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
Yeah our southern border has been flowing for quite some time now. I watched a video that was saying that 90% of them are young men of fightng age. SO our country is already full of the enemy.

Its actually preferable for your immigrants to be young strong men, so they can work for your old people health and social care. You just need to make sure they are culturally adaptable to your country. Or else you will be worse with them than without them.

Divide said:
It's not just one scripture, it's an entire study. Daniel 9 and others. I don't have my notes in front of me but I'll look for them. What it adds up to to May 14th 1948. The very day that Israel became a nation again. So this is the last generation. Born after May 14th 1948.

Matthew 24: 32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.../KJV

The fig tree has always represented Israel in scripture, so in the parable of the fig tree we can see that whan Israel puts out leaves (that was 1948) then this generation wont pass away until all these things come to pass. I haven't found my notes yet lol, but it's coming back to me.

I also saw a pastor on video give the teaching the same way. Who was that?

I see nothing in the Scriptures you posted to be about Israel becoming nation again. Also, in 1948 Israel did not become a nation, but a country. Also, the biblical generation is roughly 40 years, not almost 80 now since 1948.

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
I see nothing in the Scriptures about Israel becoming nation again. Also, in 1948 Israel did not become a nation, but a country. Also, the biblical generation is roughly 40 years, not almost 80 now since 1948.

I posted it from Matthew 24. The fig tree is Israel. In the beginning of Matthew 24 we see that four of the disciples came to Jesus and asked Him abuot His coming. And so Jesus was telling them i a parable that the fig tree represents Israel. It always does in scripture.

Isn't Nation a synonym for Country? I thought so. If I'm wrong, apologies.

Matthew 24:3-4
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you..../KJV

I think it's interesting that Jesus opens and closes this meeting with let no man deceive you. You do realize that the fig tree in scripture represents Israel?

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
I posted it from Matthew 24. The fig tree is Israel. In the beginning of Matthew 24 we see that four of the disciples came to Jesus and asked Him abuot His coming. And so Jesus was telling them i a parable that the fig tree represents Israel. It always does in scripture.

Isn't Nation a synonym for Country? I thought so. If I'm wrong, apologies.

Where did Jesus explain that he meant Israel becoming a country, when he was talking about the fig tree? Can you quote him explicitly?

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
Where did Jesus explain that he meant Israel when he was talking about the fig tree? Can you quote him explicitly?

I don't know off the top of my head. I havent yet looked for my notes. It's in there. I just don't know where.

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
I don't know off the top of my head. I havent yet looked for my notes. It's in there. I just don't know where.

OK, so until you find your notes, let us suppose your children and grandchildren and their children and grandchildren will still live in the USA. I think that there are more realistic causes of their bad quality of life than Russian invasion.

Divide · Aug 26, 2023

myst33 said:
OK, so until you find your notes, let us suppose your children and grandchildren and their children and grandchildren will still live in the USA. I think that there are more realistic causes of their bad quality of life than Russian invasion.

Well I'm not making it up. Sans notes I did the next best thing. I googled it. This was my first hit (lots of them)

The "Fig-tree" is a New Testament symbol or figure of Israel and was used by Jesus Himself. As Jesus sat upon the Mount of Olives, on the 'Tuesday evening preceding His Crucifixion, His Disciples came to Him and asked a threefold question-"Tell us, when shall these things be (the destruction of the Temple)? and what shall be the SIGN of Thy Coming, and of the end of the world (Age)?" Matt. 24:3. These three questions Jesus answered in His "Olivet Discourse" which followed. In His answer to the question-"What shall be the SIGN of Thy Coming?" Jesus mentioned three signs.

The appearance of the "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" (the "DESOLATOR"-Antichrist), spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan. 9:27) in the Holy Place of the rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem, as foretold by Paul in his Second Letter to the Thessalonians. 2 Thess. 2:1-4.
The "SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN," which is a "CLOUD," such as He disappeared in when He ascended. Acts. 1:9. Matt. 24:30.
The "FIG-TREE SIGN," or the re-gathering of the Jews back to their own land. In connection with this "Sign" Jesus said-.../

Chapter 29. The Trees to Which Israel Is Compared In Scriptures - Dispensational Truth - Study Resources

Chapter 29. The Trees to Which Israel Is Compared In Scriptures 'the 'Vine,' the 'Fig-tree,' and the 'Olive,' stand for the fruitfulness of the land.'

www.blueletterbible.org

So, a gathering of Jews back to their own land. That was in 1948.

trophy33 · Aug 26, 2023

Divide said:
Well I'm not making it up. Sans notes I did the next best thing. I googled it. This was my first hit (lots of them)

The "Fig-tree" is a New Testament symbol or figure of Israel and was used by Jesus Himself. As Jesus sat upon the Mount of Olives, on the 'Tuesday evening preceding His Crucifixion, His Disciples came to Him and asked a threefold question-"Tell us, when shall these things be (the destruction of the Temple)? and what shall be the SIGN of Thy Coming, and of the end of the world (Age)?" Matt. 24:3. These three questions Jesus answered in His "Olivet Discourse" which followed. In His answer to the question-"What shall be the SIGN of Thy Coming?" Jesus mentioned three signs.

The appearance of the "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" (the "DESOLATOR"-Antichrist), spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan. 9:27) in the Holy Place of the rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem, as foretold by Paul in his Second Letter to the Thessalonians. 2 Thess. 2:1-4.

The "SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN," which is a "CLOUD," such as He disappeared in when He ascended. Acts. 1:9. Matt. 24:30.

The "FIG-TREE SIGN," or the re-gathering of the Jews back to their own land. In connection with this "Sign" Jesus said-.../

Chapter 29. The Trees to Which Israel Is Compared In Scriptures - Dispensational Truth - Study Resources

Chapter 29. The Trees to Which Israel Is Compared In Scriptures 'the 'Vine,' the 'Fig-tree,' and the 'Olive,' stand for the fruitfulness of the land.'

www.blueletterbible.org

So, a gathering of Jews back to their own land. That was in 1948.

Where did Jesus said that the fig tree represents "re-gathering of the Jews back to their land"?

Also, how many Jews need to be regathered? All of them? 50%? At least two Jews? Because Jews were already present in the area before 1948.

Diamond72 · Aug 26, 2023

tonychanyt said:
citing his status as a conscientious objector.

Should Christians join the army?

A conscientious objector is a serious claim. I could not declare that status because I am not sure if there could be a situation where I would fight. But I would never want to harm or hurt another person. We are told to love our enemy and that is what I have done. I am a sharpshooter so I can pretty much put a bullet where I want. I think if the situation called for it, I would shoot out a kneecap, which could permanently disable someone. But I really do not think I would ever kill anything much more than a fly. Even I avoid that if I can.

Not everyone in the military is a war monger. But the ones that are will be held accountable before God. There are a lot of war mongers in our government because they are given nice jobs for their military service. People always have the option of serving in the civil service if they do not want to serve in the military.

There was a book called: What Would Jesus Do. That looks at how we can serve God in our job. I would not want to harm others by giving them alcohol or cigarettes or junk food. Jesus was a carpenter so that is an honest job that does not harm others in any way.

tonychanyt · Aug 26, 2023

Diamond7 said:
There was a book called: What Would Jesus Do.

What will Jesus do on Judgment Day?

Diamond72 · Aug 26, 2023

tonychanyt said:
What will Jesus do on Judgment Day?

In Christian theology, the concepts of judgment and the nature of judgment can vary among different denominations and interpretations. Generally, there is a belief in two primary judgments associated with the afterlife:

Judgment Seat of Christ (Bema Seat Judgment): This judgment is often associated with believers, particularly those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. It is described as a judgment of rewards for believers' actions and service during their earthly lives. The emphasis is on evaluating the quality of a believer's deeds and their faithfulness in following Christ. The outcome of this judgment is not related to salvation, as believers are already considered saved through faith in Christ.
Final Judgment (Great White Throne Judgment): This judgment is often associated with non-believers or those who have not accepted Jesus Christ. It is depicted as a final judgment where individuals will be held accountable for their actions and deeds. The outcome of this judgment is typically associated with eternal separation from God.

Looks like a good deal to me. Our evil may outweigh our good. But we are forgiven for our sin. Yet we still receive rewards. Perhaps that is why they thrown their crowns at the feet of Jesus when they realize they are not worthy. Although we are told some people will be saved but receive no rewards.

Is military service sinful?

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